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  1. #121
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    There is no evidence that time gates in any way boost MAU's because the great majority of players were going to play the game regardless of time gated grinds or not. As it is, most of these time gated grinds can still be done within a month, so it would be paid for whether it took 2 days or 2 wqeeks. This player false narrative must also stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    This nonsense needs to stop. The game developers do not care one iota about the shareholders and shareholders don't care about game design decisions about a specific game. All shareholders care about is the health of the company as a whole. WOW is not the whole company. Not by a long shot. Also, WOW developers have just as much passion making their games as anyone. You insult theem by accusing them of having no passion.
    Care to provide the hard evidence (not some nebulous, personal, subjective feeling) for the underlined parts? Or is that evidence "just trust me bois"?

    OT: some timegating I think it's necessary, but current WoW has certainly gone overboard imo. A reasonable compromise would be weekly caps instead of daily ones.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2019-12-10 at 07:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    You weren't looking to discuss world of warcraft. You posted a letter addressed to Blizzard, who isn't here.
    So far all I've done in this thread is talk about World of Warcraft. People keep bringing this up instead of discussing the game/the topic of this thread, why? Should I go somewhere else to discuss World of Warcraft instead without people constantly discussing my age, dating status, WoW forum status, or how I supposedly wrote a letter to Blizzard somewhere?

    Is this the WoW section of MMO Champion, or the "make speculations about OP" section? Am I lost?

  3. #123
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Is this the WoW section of MMO Champion, or the "make speculations about OP" section? Am I lost?
    Just going to guess it is because you defeat your own argument in your first post

    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    You still have so much more for me to do once I've unlocked flying, allied races, etc like making alts, collecting mounts/pets/transmogs and so much else,
    If there is so much more to do then time gates are irrelevant. You can still play the game. You still have a ton do to do in the game by your own words. There isn't much left to discuss. You are choosing to limit your playtime in the game when hitting a reasonable time gate despite arguing that there is so much to do in the game beyond time-gate content. Yet you don't want to do that content and play the game. You just want to play your way and only your way.

    When that attitude is used then it will most often lead to disappointment. Because the player is not the creator of the game. They play the way the creators want.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Just going to guess it is because you defeat your own argument in your first post



    If there is so much more to do then time gates are irrelevant. You can still play the game. You still have a ton do to do in the game by your own words. There isn't much left to discuss. You are choosing to limit your playtime in the game when hitting a reasonable time gate despite arguing that there is so much to do in the game beyond time-gate content. Yet you don't want to do that content and play the game. You just want to play your way and only your way.

    When that attitude is used then it will most often lead to disappointment. Because the player is not the creator of the game. They play the way the creators want.
    Because I have to unlock important things like flying and the races I want to make a character as before I can move on to those other things. But once I've unlocked the race I want to play my character as, and I have flying, I still have plenty of things to do, I won't quit the game if they weren't time gated, I'd just keep playing and do all of those other things I listed. Time gating important things like flying and new races doesn't make me feel like I have more to do or makes me play longer, it just makes me feel like I have to hit those important hurdles before I can actually do all those other fun things and usually just discourages me from wanting to play the game at all because of it. I really doubt Blizzard wants me or other people to get discouraged from playing the game at all by getting burnt out early on trying to unlock flying or new races, I doubt that is their intention.
    Last edited by Flower Milk; 2019-12-10 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #125
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Because I have to unlock important things like flying and the races I want to make a character as before I can move on to those other things.
    No. You choose to do that. There is a difference between have to and making the choice to. Flying is not required for anything in the game except maybe Naz'jatar because the terrain is annoying.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No. You choose to do that. There is a difference between have to and making the choice to. Flying is not required for anything in the game except maybe Naz'jatar because the terrain is annoying.
    If I want to make alts, I need to unlock new races and flying first. If I want to collect transmogs, mounts, pets on other classes that are also new characters possibly of new races, I need to unlock new races and flying first. All of those fun activities that I'd love to be doing in the game that have infinite amount of play time potential require I first work towards unlocking new races and flying first, which are behind a time gate. And hitting those time gate walls just to make a new character of a new race is so discouraging that it's hard to keep playing the game just to eventually be able to finally make a new character of a new race to FINALLY have fun collecting transmogs, mounts, pets, etc on said new character.

    It goes like this:
    Unlock flying to > unlock new races easier > finally be able to make the new race I want and level them up > cool, now I can FINALLY start playing the game as I've wanted to this whole time

    It's like 3-4 extra steps just to do things I used to be able to just throw gold at or get for free just by buying a new expansion.
    Last edited by Flower Milk; 2019-12-10 at 09:55 PM.

  7. #127
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    If I want to make alts, I need to unlock new races and flying first.
    Again you choose to set that requirement for yourself. If you impose your own limits to play of course you are going to find your play limited. Millions of people created alts just fine prior to patch 8.2. Pets are account wide. Transmogs are primarily collected in instances where flying doesn't exist. With the exception of Uldir BfA raids are easy to get to. Besides if they are alts you are likely running LFR since you don't mention "gearing up".

    Blizzard also buffed the rep gains for Legion races in 8.1. You can get them in less then a month of play. Flying is around a month of play. These are not onerous time gates. They can easily make grinding take that long. Besides which I already tell that you are not doing every single world quest each day for Legion and BfA. So you are are already "not grinding" out the rep you say is required for you to play the game.

    Self imposed limits will always limit gameplay. Blizzard can never solve that problem.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    It goes like this:
    Unlock flying to > unlock new races easier > finally be able to make the new race I want and level them up > cool, now I can FINALLY start playing the game as I've wanted to this whole time

    It's like 3-4 extra steps just to do things I used to be able to just throw gold at or get for free just by buying a new expansion.
    You don't need flying, that's just silly. Pretending that flying is a requirement blocked by time gating makes your argument weaker (since it is so false) instead of stronger. The one legitimate point you have is with the allied races. I agree that it is bad that you can't just start with the race you want to play and that is made worse by the time gating to get the rep to do the quests to unlock the race.

    But flying ... please. That's like saying you need to be 8/8M to make it easier to unlock flying.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No. You choose to do that. There is a difference between have to and making the choice to. Flying is not required for anything in the game except maybe Naz'jatar because the terrain is annoying.
    You really are an amazing poster rhorle...you always do insane mental gymnastics in your posts.
    Is "fun" talking to you just to see how incredible you are at gymnastics.

    You are telling FLower Milk is his problem for only enjoying "time gated content".
    Newsflash, every single major content in WoW is timegated.
    The more famous the content is, the more time gated it is.

    Its not Flower Milk's problem and he has a very valid opinion, so stop degrading his opinion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    You don't need flying, that's just silly. Pretending that flying is a requirement blocked by time gating makes your argument weaker (since it is so false) instead of stronger. The one legitimate point you have is with the allied races. I agree that it is bad that you can't just start with the race you want to play and that is made worse by the time gating to get the rep to do the quests to unlock the race.

    But flying ... please. That's like saying you need to be 8/8M to make it easier to unlock flying.
    Try finding a group to do the World PvP quest in Nazjatar...without flying.

    I 100% guarantee you will feel like shit and/or will be kicked from the group.

  10. #130
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Its not Flower Milk's problem and he has a very valid opinion, so stop degrading his opinion.
    Not once have I said they are wrong for feeling the way they do. I can't choose to only play for 15 mins at 6 am on a Monday then blame Blizzard that I can't get everything done or find groups. They are setting their own limits and requirements beyond that of Blizzard then choosing not to do all of the other content in the game that they say they want to do because they haven't met their self imposed requirements.

    Not every single major WoW content is timegated. Heroic and Normal raiding are not time gated. If you want to keep insulting people for mental gymnastics you should stop using hyperbole. Or just stick to the actual facts. Hell flying technically isn't time gated as it is rep based. I can guarentee though that the OP is not doing every world quest they can possibly do each day so time gated vs "Grinding it out" doesn't even apply.

    But you'll overlook those facts to claim mental gymnastics.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2019-12-10 at 10:39 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #131
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    In case it actually isn't obvious, it's because Blizzard is trying to cater to both instant-gratification locust-players (return for big content patches, play for 1-2 weeks, hopefully forget for a month or two to cancel their subs) and players that are still invested enough to play mythic raids or keep running their m+ clears.

    It isn't actually the content itself keeping players occupied (the only things keeping you back is time-, or repgates), because the only time content is allowed to pose some difficulty, is when you've already breezed through it week 1 of a new major update.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2019-12-10 at 10:42 PM.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
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    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  12. #132
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I 100% guarantee you will feel like shit and/or will be kicked from the group.
    You'd be wrong. There are plenty of PvP groups that require no flying because it happens between the horde and alliance bases. But that also points out that if a person was serious about getting something or have been playing the game since 8.2 launched then they would have had flying by now. It has almost been 6 months. Of course a person is going to feel bad if they are behind on something. That is the nature of trying to do things 6 months after others started to the same thing.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    So far all I've done in this thread is talk about World of Warcraft. People keep bringing this up instead of discussing the game/the topic of this thread, why? Should I go somewhere else to discuss World of Warcraft instead without people constantly discussing my age, dating status, WoW forum status, or how I supposedly wrote a letter to Blizzard somewhere?

    Is this the WoW section of MMO Champion, or the "make speculations about OP" section? Am I lost?
    YOu aren't talking about WoW. You are complaining that Blizzard doesn't cater the game solely to you.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Try finding a group to do the World PvP quest in Nazjatar...without flying.

    I 100% guarantee you will feel like shit and/or will be kicked from the group.
    You and your nonsense. Out of all the things you definitely don't need flying for ... takes like 5 minutes or less on a normal night to go right outside your town and get the kills for CTA. Maybe you're getting kicked because you're saying really dumb things and it doesn't have anything to do with flying. Plus, if you were able to follow the logical train of thought, the discussion was about unlocking allied races, and the Nazjatar CTA has literally nothing to do with that anyway.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Not once have I said they are wrong for feeling the way they do. I can't choose to only play for 15 mins at 6 am on a Monday then blame Blizzard that I can't get everything done or find groups. They are setting their own limits and requirements beyond that of Blizzard then choosing not to do all of the other content in the game that they say they want to do because they haven't met their self imposed requirements.

    Not every single major WoW content is timegated. Heroic and Normal raiding are not time gated. If you want to keep insulting people for mental gymnastics you should stop using hyperbole. Or just stick to the actual facts. Hell flying technically isn't time gated as it is rep based. I can guarentee though that the OP is not doing every world quest they can possibly do each day so time gated vs "Grinding it out" doesn't even apply.

    But you'll overlook those facts to claim mental gymnastics.
    But how can you talk "facts" when you say stuff like "flying is technically not timegated"?
    I see this "facts" and ofcourse i claim mental gymnastics (-_-)
    Do i need to explain why flying is timegated? Because reputations are insanely timegated.

    Im a PvP'er so i also feel frustrated about timegates because there are no PvP vendors nor a currency to buy PvP items.

    You dont need to say "well, thats YOUR problem" about my opinion...because is a valid opinion. Dont need to degrade it by saying "there is no problem at all, its your fault".

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Because people like you will sit at their pc spending days straight grinding till you pass out, getting all the content done in 3 days then rage that there isnt more.
    I love this lazy fucking strawman that you guys always trot out despite people constantly claiming they'd rather do the content fast but of their own accord and are totally fine with then being stuck with nothing to do, because they can then do things like heroics or alts or anything else.

    Its so entertaining that the people who constantly defend Blizzard's time gates do nothing but use fallacies. They strawman someone's argument and then claim that because other kinds of gates existed in the past, the truly horrible time gates of right now are acceptable. As if all gated content is exactly the same and there's no nuance to the argument at all.

  17. #137
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    But how can you talk "facts" when you say stuff like "flying is technically not timegated"?
    Because technically it is not. If you could gain the reputation in one day you could earn flying in one day.

    You dont need to say "well, thats YOUR problem" about my opinion...because is a valid opinion. Dont need to degrade it by saying "there is no problem at all, its your fault".
    Valid opinions can still be problems. If you are imposing extra requirements on your play style then yes it is your problem. Because you are putting restrictions on how you will play and then complaining that you can't play according to your restrictions. Stop trying to shirk responsibility. If you set the rules for how you like to play then you need to accept responsibility for your rules hampering your play style.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #138
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    I love this lazy fucking strawman that you guys always trot out despite people constantly claiming they'd rather do the content fast but of their own accord and are totally fine with then being stuck with nothing to do, because they can then do things like heroics or alts or anything else.

    Its so entertaining that the people who constantly defend Blizzard's time gates do nothing but use fallacies. They strawman someone's argument and then claim that because other kinds of gates existed in the past, the truly horrible time gates of right now are acceptable. As if all gated content is exactly the same and there's no nuance to the argument at all.
    except its not a straw man... its literally what tons of people do, you can see streamers, top 1% players, and hardcore do this, this is not a made up thing, this is something A LOT of people do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
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  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    except its not a straw man... its literally what tons of people do, you can see streamers, top 1% players, and hardcore do this, this is not a made up thing, this is something A LOT of people do.
    When a player stays subscribed only because of a timegate...you really have a nice game there. /sarcasm

    Timegates are not a child-protection device for people to not burnout. They are just a cheap tactic for lack of quality design.

    The speech a Diablo dev gave is inspiring, "you should never worry in giving players everything they want. Better fix the problems with game design of players having everything than players having to deal with stingy reward systems"

  20. #140
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    When a player stays subscribed only because of a timegate...you really have a nice game there. /sarcasm

    Timegates are not a child-protection device for people to not burnout. They are just a cheap tactic for lack of quality design.

    The speech a Diablo dev gave is inspiring, "you should never worry in giving players everything they want. Better fix the problems with game design of players having everything than players having to deal with stingy reward systems"
    So shall we remove raids being weekly? as that is the earliest timegating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

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