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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Potatowizard View Post
    While this has already been pointed out, I will do it for you.

    They do this to keep you subbed. They lose business if you grind out everything you want, get bored, and unsubscribe. This mind set is what led us to this point in WoW. People didn't want to spend LONG hours grinding rep, gear, honor, etc. So they made everything a little easier and more casual. Now things are too casual and people want to grind again.

    This is a game that can't win. Change one thing and you piss off half the users. Change it back. And you piss off the other half.
    Yeah...that's what I just said in my comment. You don't need you to lecture and patronize me about it. What I don't understand though is why some people here are defending this instead of wanting something better, more options. It's lazy game design and the worst part about it is that its purpose is to make Blizzard more money not to make the game more fun. Why are people who claim to love this game ok with this and willing to defend it?

    Also I'll have you know I was not one of those people who complained about spending long hours grinding content. This game and all other MMOs will always have grind content, it's what keeps the game alive, so the grind isn't the problem it's how it's handled. Things are not as black and white as you may think. It's not about being too casual either it's about limiting the amount of content I can consume in one day as if they are like my parents giving me a curfew. If I want to grind rep all day I should be able to do that. If they want WQs to be the primary way of gaining rep thats fine but add in some other ways to gain rep so that for those of us that have extra time to continue grinding we can choose to do so. The game shouldn't be kicking me off and telling me to do something else. How exactly does that make for a fun game?
    I'd buy that for a dollar.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Very rare pepe View Post
    There is nothing wrong with this, why is having a finish point so bad to you guys? Why is it alright to have the same amount of content as before but now it's coming in episodes like it's a fucking TV show? Blizz can win, go back to what actually used to work. Rep from dungeons/rep from tabards/rep from mobs.
    It's not bad for grinders, it's bad for Blizzard because grinders will grind it out in a few days then unsub. Making it a "tv show" if it lasts more than a month gives them another sub and that's money. It's always about the money.

    Time gating is also casual friendly, which is the general theme of wow, because you progress at the same rate whether you have 20 mins a day free or all day. Meanwhile if you create a "mob grind" that will occupy grinders for more than a month, it's gonna be insurmountable work for the casual who can't sink endless hours into said mob grind.

    As I said, a casual can unlock 80% of the allied races the day they launched, as long as he's not a cyclical unsubber, 8 out of 10 allied races used reps you could pre-farm with the "tv episode" schedule of 10-20 mins a day. Same story with flying. The theme is here minimal effort, but something you can't just finish in an afternoon and unsub.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    Yeah...that's what I just said in my comment. You don't need you to lecture and patronize me about it. What I don't understand though is why some people here are defending this instead of wanting something better, more options. It's lazy game design and the worst part about it is that its purpose is to make Blizzard more money not to make the game more fun. Why are people who claim to love this game ok with this and willing to defend it?

    Also I'll have you know I was not one of those people who complained about spending long hours grinding content. This game and all other MMOs will always have grind content, it's what keeps the game alive, so the grind isn't the problem it's how it's handled. Things are not as black and white as you may think. It's not about being too casual either it's about limiting the amount of content I can consume in one day as if they are like my parents giving me a curfew. If I want to grind rep all day I should be able to do that. If they want WQs to be the primary way of gaining rep thats fine but add in some other ways to gain rep so that for those of us that have extra time to continue grinding we can choose to do so. The game shouldn't be kicking me off and telling me to do something else. How exactly does that make for a fun game?
    Yep, I was also never one of those people who complained about spending long hours on grinding content. That's what a MMO is to me. Time gating my ability to grind in a MMO makes it feel less like a MMO to me, it feels more like a chore that I have to log into and play for a few hours a day instead of play and grind whenever I feel like for however long I feel like. I enjoy grinding, that was never an issue for me, I would not bother playing a MMO if it was.

    I also never unsubbed over feeling I finished a grind and got the goal I was hoping for. I just... made an alt, unlocked mounts, pets, transmogs, etc. I have unsubbed many times now after Blizzard added in time gates to everything and made this game feel more like a chore. I wish Blizzard would trust me that I wouldn't automatically unsub from their game just because I unlocked flight or new races without time gates.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I wish Blizzard would trust me that I wouldn't automatically unsub from their game just because I unlocked flight or new races without time gates.
    But here is the conundrum. You can hit revered with the reps for 8.2 pathfinder in a week with doing everything. Or more casually at a 2-3 weeks. It has been almost six months and you are still complaining about a time gate on flying. This indicates that you are not interested in a grind being an alternative because you haven't put in even the small amount of time to unlock flying in six months. And that the time gate is self imposed.

    About the only real dumb time gate in WoW right now is LFR taking a month to fully unlock. It really kills the buzz to not be able to do more of the "new raid" when it feels new.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2019-12-12 at 05:58 PM.
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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    Yeah...that's what I just said in my comment. You don't need you to lecture and patronize me about it. What I don't understand though is why some people here are defending this instead of wanting something better, more options. It's lazy game design and the worst part about it is that its purpose is to make Blizzard more money not to make the game more fun. Why are people who claim to love this game ok with this and willing to defend it?

    Also I'll have you know I was not one of those people who complained about spending long hours grinding content. This game and all other MMOs will always have grind content, it's what keeps the game alive, so the grind isn't the problem it's how it's handled. Things are not as black and white as you may think. It's not about being too casual either it's about limiting the amount of content I can consume in one day as if they are like my parents giving me a curfew. If I want to grind rep all day I should be able to do that. If they want WQs to be the primary way of gaining rep thats fine but add in some other ways to gain rep so that for those of us that have extra time to continue grinding we can choose to do so. The game shouldn't be kicking me off and telling me to do something else. How exactly does that make for a fun game?
    Great dude. Go outside now. Take a breath

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    Yeah...that's what I just said in my comment. You don't need you to lecture and patronize me about it. What I don't understand though is why some people here are defending this instead of wanting something better, more options. It's lazy game design and the worst part about it is that its purpose is to make Blizzard more money not to make the game more fun. Why are people who claim to love this game ok with this and willing to defend it?

    Also I'll have you know I was not one of those people who complained about spending long hours grinding content. This game and all other MMOs will always have grind content, it's what keeps the game alive, so the grind isn't the problem it's how it's handled. Things are not as black and white as you may think. It's not about being too casual either it's about limiting the amount of content I can consume in one day as if they are like my parents giving me a curfew. If I want to grind rep all day I should be able to do that. If they want WQs to be the primary way of gaining rep thats fine but add in some other ways to gain rep so that for those of us that have extra time to continue grinding we can choose to do so. The game shouldn't be kicking me off and telling me to do something else. How exactly does that make for a fun game?
    Did it ever occur to you people like things the way they are? YOU need to realize your opinions are just that. They are not fact.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But here is the conundrum. You can hit revered with the reps for 8.2 pathfinder in a week with doing everything. Or more casually at a 2-3 weeks. It has been almost six months and you are still complaining about a time gate on flying. This indicates that you are not interested in a grind being an alternative because you haven't put in even the small amount of time to unlock flying in six months. And that the time gate is self imposed.

    About the only real dumb time gate in WoW right now is LFR taking a month to fully unlock. It really kills the buzz to not be able to do more of the "new raid" when it feels new.
    Absolutely correct on the first paragraph. In all the time he is wating whining about Blizzard not catering the game solely to him. he could have the grinds he is complaining about done.

    As for LFR, they do that so regular raiders have the opportunity to clear the raid first.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Very rare pepe View Post
    There is nothing wrong with this, why is having a finish point so bad to you guys? Why is it alright to have the same amount of content as before but now it's coming in episodes like it's a fucking TV show? Blizz can win, go back to what actually used to work. Rep from dungeons/rep from tabards/rep from mobs.
    Because it's an MMO, and the point is to play and improve your character. If you could finish everything in a week by grinding 10+ hours a day then there's no reason to play the game after you're done, so you quit until the next patch, so every 6 months you play for a week, except you don't because you quit because playing a game once a week every 6 months is stupid.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Because it's an MMO, and the point is to play and improve your character. If you could finish everything in a week by grinding 10+ hours a day then there's no reason to play the game after you're done, so you quit until the next patch, so every 6 months you play for a week, except you don't because you quit because playing a game once a week every 6 months is stupid.
    But you pay monthly to play the content, you should be able to play at your own pace. And if you can finish wow's content in a week then that is shameful on blizzard's behalf. Paying £30-£70 to buy the expansion +£10 a month should present you with a game that will offer you hundreds, upon hundreds of hours of content to do.

    The current system isn't working, not having a finish point is bad for MMO's. If you finish your character you make an alt. Classic had it right on that front. It is highly satisfying imo when you hit that finishing point.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Very rare pepe View Post
    But you pay monthly to play the content, you should be able to play at your own pace. And if you can finish wow's content in a week then that is shameful on blizzard's behalf. Paying £30-£70 to buy the expansion +£10 a month should present you with a game that will offer you hundreds, upon hundreds of hours of content to do.

    The current system isn't working, not having a finish point is bad for MMO's. If you finish your character you make an alt. Classic had it right on that front. It is highly satisfying imo when you hit that finishing point.
    There is no game in the history of forever that gives you hundreds and hundreds of hours of unique content.

    You do have a finishing point. It's base ilevel drops and neck level which opens last slot. Anything else (forging, corruption, what ever) are bonuses not requirements unless your raid lead is a duck who should be told in a diplomatic sense to fuck off if they bitch that you don't grind to death.


    Self control is a thing. All adults have it. Use it.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I level a character to max and it's a fun time, and when I hit max level I'm met with some world quest chores to meet my goals of unlocking flying, allied races, better gear, etc. Cool. But then I start doing those chores, and the game is like "that's all the progress/WoW you can play for today, come back tomorrow". Why doesn't Blizzard trust me to play their game more? Why do they put these weird parental control time gated progress walls everywhere? I feel like I'm playing a mobile phone game and I'm about to be asked to pay real money to bypass these time gated progress walls.

    I'm a grown adult Blizzard, I can play your game for as long as I feel like it/have the time and still attend to my IRL responsibilities, you don't need to restrict my play time like this by putting everything behind a time gate. I'm not going to stop playing your game either because I've met my goals faster than you've intended me to, that's crazy. You still have so much more for me to do once I've unlocked flying, allied races, etc like making alts, collecting mounts/pets/transmogs and so much else, you do not need to heavily time gate everything like this to try to keep me playing for longer. All it does is just burn me out on the game and make me NOT want to play the game at all anymore because I'm so sick and frustrated with all these time gates everywhere.

    Why do they do this?
    There are like 40 or 50 world quests up every day throughout the zones. How is that not enough for you?

  11. #171
    To remove pressure of needing to do everything. To give structure to your activities. To limit discrepancies between players with more and less time. To feel accomplished you reached your goals for that day. To lower the chance of burnout. To temporize the content and prolong playtime over a longer period. And probably loads of other reasons.

  12. #172
    Because they need stable MAUs

  13. #173
    Main reason is probably if they let everyone do everything in their own speed alot of people will just no life it and then spend month bitching on forum that there is nothing to do.

    Its already happening now but is just a tiny amount to what it would be.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    To remove pressure of needing to do everything. To give structure to your activities. To limit discrepancies between players with more and less time. To feel accomplished you reached your goals for that day. To lower the chance of burnout. To temporize the content and prolong playtime over a longer period. And probably loads of other reasons.
    This. Not being able to play "only" 3-4hrs a day and falling behind, or not being able to do what you like to relax because you would fall behind the curve (alts, pet battles, random bgs/brawls or any other thing, even farming in mop lands - I don't judge ) Obviously there will always be a gap between a player who plays 8hrs and 2hrs a day and there should be, but that gap should be reduced by skill. This is whats wrong with classic pvp ranks, it's time invested base, not skill based.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyjscizzle View Post
    And what if you feel m+ is a annoying waste of time that was shoved in to make up for their lack of actually engaging dungeons by making them "harder" and timed in order to push player engagement when it was waning? and instead would rather do world content and would prefer to not be told after a point said content was pointless due to a timegate?
    Hahaha. This is so bizarre. I absolutely cannot fathom how someone writes a "fuk u blizerd" post about a decision they assume was made to "increase player engagement". Like... no shit? That's literally the entire point of the game, it's a product designed to make money and you're complaining that they made design choices that encourage players to engage more with the game. It honestly blows my mind that some people are conditioned to be so entitled that they think this one specific videogame must be all things to all people. If you don't like M+ but you like world content, find another game that caters to that need. I don't go to the movies to watch the latest Avengers and complain that I didn't get a four hour character study, nor do I order an Uber and complain that I didn't get a limo. Why the fuck do people play WoW and complain that it isn't The Witcher 3?

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Very rare pepe View Post
    But you pay monthly to play the content, you should be able to play at your own pace. And if you can finish wow's content in a week then that is shameful on blizzard's behalf. Paying £30-£70 to buy the expansion +£10 a month should present you with a game that will offer you hundreds, upon hundreds of hours of content to do.

    The current system isn't working, not having a finish point is bad for MMO's. If you finish your character you make an alt. Classic had it right on that front. It is highly satisfying imo when you hit that finishing point.
    There are hundreds upon hundreds of hours of content in WoW, which is why they can get away with releasing big patches every 8 months. But there are plenty of people who would blow through 200 hours of content in like two months and then bitch for the next half a year that there isn't anything to do. Thus Blizzard time gates most of the content.

    Look at classic WoW, everyone rushed to 60 and got full BiS within a month and now the only reason people are even playing is because of BGs just released. Then they'll release BWL in January since everyone is bored of BGs and everyone will blow through that. Repeat that every 2 months and they'll be done with classic WoW in under a year with no more content coming out. Then people will bitch that they spent the past year grinding classic WoW and now have nothing to do.

    Blizzard knows if they don't time gate things they'll be unable to release content fast enough and they don't want that problem. The time gating really isn't even that bad, and it's better than feeling like I need to log in for 10 hours a day or I'll fall behind everyone else, because then I know by the time I finally catch up all my friends will be done with everything the patch has to offer and we'd all go find a different game to play anyway.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Very rare pepe View Post
    Paying £30-£70 to buy the expansion +£10 a month should present you with a game that will offer you hundreds, upon hundreds of hours of content to do.
    As opposed to standard AAA single player game that you pay 60$ for and finish in under a week? Then have to pay another 20-40$ for various dlcs that offer 1 afternoon of content each? Yeeeeah... Talk about expectations.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    They used to let you grind everything you wanted as fast as you wanted it, you could farm mobs for 5 rep a kill and hit exalted within a week, but then by the end of the month everyone complained that there was nothing to do because they grinded 10 hours a day and finished all the content.
    I believe this is one giant myth that these time gates are solely imposed that "hardcore" people have something to do.

    Why?
    Because it's bogus, if people are willing to drop 10h+ hours into a game each day, spreading 10 hours of content over 10 days isn't going to solve this problem.
    They then sit around 9 hours waiting for the daily reset to start over.

    This timegating simply exists that people don't have to drop as much time into the game while still stretching the relevance of this content.
    If a regular grind would require you ~20 hours of grinding, Blizzard usually implements efficient daily / weekly mechanics that award a shit ton of rep that your actual playtime might be just 10 hours, except it's over the course of multiple days.

    That aside, perhaps the more relevant question should be what sort of content should be timegated.
    Back in Wotlk, the Shoulder enchants were also timegated, certain rep grinds in TBC were mostly daily quests, the story of the 5.1 faction was also timegated.

    Maybe something that's such a huge gamechanger as flying shouldn't be timegated at all.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-12-13 at 12:35 PM.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I believe this is one giant myth that these time gates are solely imposed that "hardcore" people have something to do.

    Why?
    Because it's bogus, if people are willing to drop 10h+ hours into a game each day, spreading 10 hours of content over 10 days isn't going to solve this problem.
    They then sit around 9 hours waiting for the daily reset to start over.

    This timegating simply exists that people don't have to drop as much time into the game while still stretching the relevance of this content.
    If a regular grind would require you ~20 hours of grinding, Blizzard usually implements efficient daily / weekly mechanics that award a shit ton of rep that your actual playtime might be just 10 hours, except it's over the course of multiple days.

    That aside, perhaps the more relevant question should be what sort of content should be timegated.
    Back in Wotlk, the Shoulder enchants were also timegated, certain rep grinds in TBC were mostly daily quests, the story of the 5.1 faction was also timegated.

    Maybe something that's such a huge gamechanger as flying shouldn't be timegated at all.
    Freaking exactly! You perfectly summed it up. I am fine with time gating if it's done on content that makes sense to time gate. Flying and the ability to make a character of a new race should not be time gated, it's just stupid. I never cared about time gating in this game at all until they started overly time gating everything like flying and new races.

  20. #180
    They want to get as much money out of people before they realize that other services that are just not one game but hundreds you can play for one monthly fee (less in most cases than the wow sub) are going to overshadow all paid MMO's soon. It is why I kept saying Blizz should have a Battle.net monthly fee that grants you access to all their games and IP's day one with some other benefits like free packs in hearthstone and other free games etc. I mean they will do that eventually it is all a matter of time, gamepass is just the beginning.
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    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

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