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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    You wrongly tried to hand wave the Soviet overthrow of one government and the placement of a puppet government as them aiding a democratically elected government....
    Yeah, what a terrible government.. Giving equal voting rights and political rights to women, etc.

    But I bet you preferred the monarchy that Afghanistan had?

  2. #62
    Remember back in the Bush Administration when anyone with a brain cell said this was the case and conservatives screamed and whined and moaned and called them traitors? Remember "cut and run"?

    Every 10-15 years all conservative talking points finally get flushed down the toilet like they always should've been, and all those people who defended them at the time are whistling and looking the other way.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    You wrongly tried to hand wave the Soviet overthrow of one government and the placement of a puppet government as them aiding a democratically elected government....
    Not even close /sigh.

    I guess you're not even reading the posts you reply to...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yeah, what a terrible government.. Giving equal voting rights and political rights to women, etc.

    But I bet you preferred the monarchy that Afghanistan had?
    At least the monarchy was smart enough to know the reality of the mindset of the people throughout the country. Afghanistan was not then, is not now, and may never be, ready to embrace Western political thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Not even close /sigh.

    I guess you're not even reading the posts you reply to...
    "The Soviets were supporting the elected Afghan government forces against US backed militias" is what I was replying to. I guess you dont even remember what you write....
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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yeah, what a terrible government.. Giving equal voting rights and political rights to women, etc.

    But I bet you preferred the monarchy that Afghanistan had?
    The Soviet-backed government didn't legalize child rape like the US-backed Karzai government did.

    That's what the Americans are defending here: them literally standing guard outside huts where children were being raped.

  6. #66
    the war had like 90% approval when it first started, after 9/11 everybody across the political spectrum wanted revenge, the vote for the war was almost unanimous

    Imagine if any senator voted against the war that was popular especially during bushes re election with a POPULARITY OF 70%! it was political suicide, this is what voters WANTED.

    and most of the anti war propoganda was from russialeaks, sorry i mean wikileaks mix them up because wikileands is directly given information from russian intelligence
    Last edited by arandomuser; 2019-12-18 at 12:40 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    "The Soviets were supporting the elected Afghan government forces against US backed militias" is what I was replying to. I guess you dont even remember what you write....
    /sigh.

    I'll be optimistic and assume you are somehow failing to understand and not just loling out the thread, so I'll try one last time to explain: It does not matter how a countries governmental system originally came to exist, if the government of the day was democratically elected by the people then that is a democratic government.

    Seriously based on your logic the current US, French and UK governments are all illegitimate post coup dictatorships...

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    the war had like 90% approval when it first started, after 9/11 everybody across the political spectrum wanted revenge, the vote for the war was almost unilateral.
    Unilateral?
    But no shit that it had 90% approval when it first started (though I doubt it was THAT high). You can easily get support like that if you face no consequences for lying.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Unilateral?
    But no shit that it had 90% approval when it first started (though I doubt it was THAT high). You can easily get support like that if you face no consequences for lying.
    lol meant unanimous brain messed up during typing still my point remains, unanimous consent, this is something the public demanded, and if a president DIDNT do anything after we were attacked theyd be considered treasoners by the public

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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    lol meant unanimous brain messed up during typing still my point remains, unanimous consent, this is something the public demanded, and if a president DIDNT do anything after we were attacked theyd be considered treasoners by the public
    Corporate, government and media are intertwined.. Corporates and government get the media to generate consent.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    /sigh.

    I'll be optimistic and assume you are somehow failing to understand and not just loling out the thread, so I'll try one last time to explain: It does not matter how a countries governmental system originally came to exist, if the government of the day was democratically elected by the people then that is a democratic government.

    Seriously based on your logic the current US, French and UK governments are all illegitimate post coup dictatorships...
    THE GOVERNMENT THE USSR WAS SUPPORTING WAS NOT ELECTED!!!!! Its that simple. There was no democratic vote putting them in power, there was no democratic vote to keep them in power.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    THE GOVERNMENT THE USSR WAS SUPPORTING WAS NOT ELECTED!!!!! Its that simple. There was no democratic vote putting them in power, there was no democratic vote to keep them in power.
    Wrong on all counts, but I suppose that's good as it means you've been arguing because you don't understand the history rather than you just want to argue silly points.

    Not only was the government of Afghanistan that the US overthrew legitimacy elected via democratic elections, but it was a coalition government as the Soviet backed party didn't have a majority so relied on other parties for power sharing, and in addition they even opted to hold seats vacant in the House of Representatives and the Senate for the US backed rebels in the hope they would stand down their campaign and join in the governing of Afghanistan.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Wrong on all counts, but I suppose that's good as it means you've been arguing because you don't understand the history rather than you just want to argue silly points.

    Not only was the government of Afghanistan that the US overthrew legitimacy elected via democratic elections, but it was a coalition government as the Soviet backed party didn't have a majority so relied on other parties for power sharing, and in addition they even opted to hold seats vacant in the House of Representatives and the Senate for the US backed rebels in the hope they would stand down their campaign and join in the governing of Afghanistan.
    Dear god, you have a very Soviet view of the Soviet overthrow of a very unpopular non-democratic government. Obviously there is no point on discussing this further.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Dear god, you have a very Soviet view of the Soviet overthrow of a very unpopular non-democratic government. Obviously there is no point on discussing this further.
    Dear god, you have a very US view of the US-backed overthrow of a very unpopular democratic government. Obviously there is no point on discussing this further.

    This can be so easily turned around.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Dear god, you have a very Soviet view of the Soviet overthrow of a very unpopular non-democratic government. Obviously there is no point on discussing this further.
    Jesus Christ what is with you and reading what you want to see instead of what is written. I am not denying that the USSR overthrew the government of Afghanistan and put it's own puppet regime in place, I have never denied that in fact I have even mentioned/condemned it.

    My point (which I have already made crystal clear) was that that puppet government later turned around and turned the country into a democracy, implementing free elections in which it was replaced by a multi-party democratically elected government. THAT is the government that the US later overthrew via the Islamic militants they armed/funded, NOT a puppet state but a democratically elected government ruling in the interest of the people.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Jesus Christ what is with you and reading what you want to see instead of what is written. I am not denying that the USSR overthrew the government of Afghanistan and put it's own puppet regime in place, I have never denied that in fact I have even mentioned/condemned it.

    My point (which I have already made crystal clear) was that that puppet government later turned around and turned the country into a democracy, implementing free elections in which it was replaced by a multi-party democratically elected government. THAT is the government that the US later overthrew via the Islamic militants they armed/funded, NOT a puppet state but a democratically elected government ruling in the interest of the people.
    In 1986, maybe, but at that point the war had been going on with the USSR supporting a puppet government for 7 years. And it was only ruling in the interests of the hand full of cities it controlled, which is the whole reason there was a civil war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Dear god, you have a very US view of the US-backed overthrow of a very unpopular democratic government. Obviously there is no point on discussing this further.

    This can be so easily turned around.
    Oh I have full knowledge of the US' part of the war, but I do not expect our resident sleeper KGB agent to admit to the Soviet's part.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I do not expect our resident sleeper KGB agent to admit to the Soviet's part.
    You mean like this bit?
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    the USSR overthrew the government of Afghanistan and put it's own puppet regime in place
    Hate to break it to you but being critical of both Russia the USA and my own country and holding all to account doesn't make me a Soviet spy, it just makes me balanced.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post

    Oh I have full knowledge of the US' part of the war, but I do not expect our resident sleeper KGB agent to admit to the Soviet's part.
    Did the Soviet government install a government which legalized heroin production and child rape? No. Then the Soviets were better by default.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    You mean like this bit?


    Hate to break it to you but being critical of both Russia the USA and my own country and holding all to account doesn't make me a Soviet spy, it just makes me balanced.
    Sgree, Having the SU as your moral threshold is indicative that you are already morally bankrupt.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    You mean like this bit?


    Hate to break it to you but being critical of both Russia the USA and my own country and holding all to account doesn't make me a Soviet spy, it just makes me balanced.
    If you had bothered to pay attention to my post, you would know I was not talking about you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by questlope View Post
    Did the Soviet government install a government which legalized heroin production and child rape? No. Then the Soviets were better by default.

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    Sgree, Having the SU as your moral threshold is indicative that you are already morally bankrupt.
    Neither was better. A return to pre 1978 politics would have been better, as it was balanced around the reality of the country. A powerful central government has no place in current Afghanistan, they are not ready for it.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

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