Why are people genuinely mad that Classic is a success?

[Specialka]

I have never understanded how a moderator is allowed to post such false things. Classic wow have a lot more interest on almost ALL sites except mmo champion and wow forums (close though). Look at google trending search, twitch, discord chats, etc....

I have always not quite understand why mmo-champion only hire people who are pro-retail, as seen in all your posts.
Theres like 2x the playerbase in classic than retail and the moderator here still claims otherwise..

Any proof to back up your claim?

[themaster24]

I have never understanded how a moderator is allowed to post such false things. Classic wow have a lot more interest on almost ALL sites except mmo champion and wow forums (close though). Look at google trending search, twitch, discord chats, etc....

I have always not quite understand why mmo-champion only hire people who are pro-retail, as seen in all your posts.
Theres like 2x the playerbase in classic than retail and the moderator here still claims otherwise..

You call him out for saying false things, but then you turn right around and say things that cannot be proven. There is literally no data available that can prove things like "Classic has 2x the playerbase".

The issue with a lot of people is that you sequester yourself into echo chambers and conclude that's the norm. Just because everyone YOU know talks about classic/retail, that isn't indicative of the majority of WoW players (hence why evidence like this is called anecdotal). It's all the more likely that you have simply surrounded yourself with players who are like minded. Classic could have more players than retail, just like retail could have more players than classic. We will never truly know, though, as Blizzard keeps that information closely guarded.

[Lora]

Besides the open world pvp, simpler classes, more customizable talents, less forgiving mechanics, pre-diminishing returns, stronger sense of community, and more feeling of achievement... sure--Classic is hot garbage.

retail has open world pvp, simple classes is bad game design, you are forced into cookie cutter specs, almost no mechanics whatsoever and none of them are harsh, being perma cced is bad gameplay, community is just as shit as it is on retail, and there are no achievements in classic. your argument is invalid.

[Seranthor]

I have never understanded how a moderator is allowed to post such false things. Classic wow have a lot more interest on almost ALL sites except mmo champion and wow forums (close though). Look at google trending search, twitch, discord chats, etc....

I have always not quite understand why mmo-champion only hire people who are pro-retail, as seen in all your posts.
Theres like 2x the playerbase in classic than retail and the moderator here still claims otherwise..

Other than the fact that you cant read, you cant tell the truth, and you appear incapable of presenting any facts, I think you'll fit right in

[MoanaLisa]

Other than the fact that you cant read, you cant tell the truth, and you appear incapable of presenting any facts, I think you'll fit right in

I'm not a mod either for what it's worth. And I'm plenty critical when I think the topic deserves it.

[Jonnusthegreat]

What? Even if that person logs off after doing an emissary, logs into Classic to do a dungeon then logs back into retail to complete another emissary?

I'm usually considered very pro-retail but I'm not sure how you're getting zero sum unless you assume somebody who stops playing retail to play Classic will forever play Classic or somebody who stops playing Classic to play retail is now only ever going to play retail. The fact that you can play both games is the opposite of a zero sum game. Am I missing something?

We only have so many hours in a day. If one spends an hour on Classic, that's one less hour they could be spending on retail. Most people aren't like that, but I know plenty that quit retail for Classic. You can play both, but you are dividing your time away from retail. You don't get free hours in your day to play the other. That's what zero sum means. If you add time to something, you must take it away from something else.

[RWQ]

Frankly, population is not a huge factor in determining an appropriate sample size, other than the fact that you obviously can't have a sample larger than your population.

Population size isn't a factor. Making sure your sample is a representative sample of that population is.

[Starfals]

Only reason i enjoy classic is i know TBC will come the greatest wow of all times.

I wonder if they will bother with TBC. If they do, wrath is a given then. Wrath is the most popular WoW Xpack.

[RWQ]

We only have so many hours in a day. If one spends an hour on Classic, that's one less hour they could be spending on retail. Most people aren't like that, but I know plenty that quit retail for Classic. You can play both, but you are dividing your time away from retail. You don't get free hours in your day to play the other. That's what zero sum means. If you add time to something, you must take it away from something else.

But WoW retail and WoW classic aren't the only things they can do with their time. It could be they'd have been playing baseball instead.

I regularly play two+ different games now. There's no reason WoW and other WoW can't be two games I play and compete for my time against both each other and other games/hobbies.

Your original claim of "if someone is in classic they're not in retail" doesn't hold up, because those aren't the only options. If classic didn't exist, I'd spend that time playing another game instead of Retail. Retail doesn't get that time either way.

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Only reason i enjoy classic is i know TBC will come the greatest wow of all times.

I just want to do BC PVP as a faceroll braindead warrior instead of lowest-representation-in-high-rating-by-far hunter.

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But this does get me. People bitch about Bkizzard making shit up. As if it all wasn't just made up. Hell almost 75% of everything that launched in Vanilla was not in the RTS games, maps completely redone to mak a living world, races invented, cities created, factions, elemental planes and all that jazz. These same people would complain if the game only consisted of stuff from the RTS about how Blizzard is unimaginative.

It seems like a lot of people view the RTS and maybe books as the "real" lore, and basically treat wow as though it was fanfic that had no real association with the official lore.

[themaster24]

We only have so many hours in a day. If one spends an hour on Classic, that's one less hour they could be spending on retail. Most people aren't like that, but I know plenty that quit retail for Classic. You can play both, but you are dividing your time away from retail. You don't get free hours in your day to play the other. That's what zero sum means. If you add time to something, you must take it away from something else.

It's not a Zero-Sum because that would imply any time spent on Retail/Classic is inherently time that would have to of been spent on the other. That is no necessarily the case though, and opportunity cost does not make for Zero-Sum.

[arkanon]

Wow editing my comment to agree with it. So clever! Herp de derp. The fact is classic got a ton of people back that hadn’t touched retail in years. That’s a success. You can hate it all you want but they’ve had a success. A failure would have been three servers all dying fast. I mean shit of what we have now isn’t a success I don’t know what you expected. They rereleased a 15 year old game and it got them many people back that hadn’t touched the game in a decade. It isn’t like they had to put a ton of work into it either as they’ve said it took nothing away from retail to do it. But go head and seethe that some people happen to enjoy classic more than BFA.

I also like how you talk about people pushing agendas when all your posts are literally that. Why do you seethe so much that people prefer classic over live? It’s like imagine getting mad at someone who says Final Fantasy 7 is better than the newest one. Those damn fools don’t they realize the newest final fantasy improved on 7 in every way? How dare they!

Funny how you claim to know what every single post of mine is about, and that I have an agenda against classic. Funny because I have said multiple times I am enjoying classic for what it is - a nostalgic but fundamentally flawed and horribly outdated version of the game.

I am playing classic more than retail right now, and am happy that classic is enjoying some popularity, even though it is quite clearly very short lived.

You seem to be projecting a lot of anger and frustration into other people who are not exhibiting those emotions at all.

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We only have so many hours in a day. If one spends an hour on Classic, that's one less hour they could be spending on retail. Most people aren't like that, but I know plenty that quit retail for Classic. You can play both, but you are dividing your time away from retail. You don't get free hours in your day to play the other. That's what zero sum means. If you add time to something, you must take it away from something else.

And I know plenty who came back for classic, and quit within a month and moved over to retail.

[McNeil]

I think one of the funniest thing about this whole Classic vs retail feud is that they are basically pinning 2 games against each other that are vastly inferior to other versions we have had. If we go by polls then TBC, WotLK, MoP and to some extend Legion score the highest as best expansions. Classic and BFA actually score really low. People also bring up raiding a lot while comparing games, yet if we look at this thread made some time ago, both Classic and BFA score the lowest out of all.

[arkanon]

I think one of the funniest thing about this whole Classic vs retail feud is that they are basically pinning 2 games against each other that are vastly inferior to other versions we have had. If we go by polls then TBC, WotLK, MoP and to some extend Legion score the highest as best expansions. Classic and BFA actually score really low. People also bring up raiding a lot while comparing games, yet if we look at this thread made some time ago, both Classic and BFA score the lowest out of all.

The poll talking specifically about raids?

[Jonnusthegreat]

But WoW retail and WoW classic aren't the only things they can do with their time. It could be they'd have been playing baseball instead.

I regularly play two+ different games now. There's no reason WoW and other WoW can't be two games I play and compete for my time against both each other and other games/hobbies.

I don't care about baseball or other games. If someone is playing Classic instead of retail, it negatively affects their retail experience if they care about populated realms on retail. You are literally describing a situation that supports my argument. You playing a game that's not retail means you aren't playing retail. You are taking possible time away from retail.

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It's not a Zero-Sum because that would imply any time spent on Retail/Classic is inherently time that would have to of been spent on the other. That is no necessarily the case though, and opportunity cost does not make for Zero-Sum.

No, you are assuming that everyone is like that. If ONE person does it, it is net negative. Since you say it's not NECESSARILY the case, are you saying that sometimes it is? That supports my claim.

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And I know plenty who came back for classic, and quit within a month and moved over to retail.

Cool information, but that's not the discussion that is happening right now.

[RWQ]

I don't care about baseball or other games. If someone is playing Classic instead of retail, it negatively affects their retail experience if they care about populated realms on retail. You are literally describing a situation that supports my argument. You playing a game that's not retail means you aren't playing retail. You are taking possible time away from retail.

It doesn't support your point. Your previous claim was that classic has to take from retail because it's zero sum. This is objectively, provably false. Observe.

I play retail 1 hour a day. I play baseball one our a day.
Then classic comes out.
I play retail 1 hour a day. I play classic one hour a day.

See how it's zero sum for time, retail lost no players, and classic still has one? I don't understand why I'm having to give a proof by example for this. This isn't a hard to understand concept. Things other than retail and classic exist and take time. Playing one DOES NOT automatically mean taking from the other. This is not debatable. It's not an opinion. It's an objective fact.

Of course, I suspect what you're really doing is backing down from your "it's zero sum!" argument to a more defensible "SOME PEOPLE might quit retail for wow" because you know your "its zero sum" is flawed.

[themaster24]

No, you are assuming that everyone is like that. If ONE person does it, it is net negative. Since you say it's not NECESSARILY the case, are you saying that sometimes it is? That supports my claim.

Your attempted point was that playing Classic and Retail is a inherently a Zero-Sum game. It's emphatically not, as that ASSUMES everyone plays in a such a way. It may be a zero-sum game for specific individuals in their own lives. For the world at large, though, it is not.

[McNeil]

The poll talking specifically about raids?

I think one of the funniest thing about this whole Classic vs retail feud is that they are basically pinning 2 games against each other that are vastly inferior to other versions we have had. If we go by polls then TBC, WotLK, MoP and to some extend Legion score the highest as best expansions. Classic and BFA actually score really low. People also bring up raiding a lot while comparing games, yet if we look at this thread made some time ago, both Classic and BFA score the lowest out of all.

Why yes indeed

[Jonnusthegreat]

It doesn't support your point. Your previous claim was that classic has to take from retail because it's zero sum. This is objectively, provably false. Observe.

I play retail 1 hour a day. I play baseball one our a day.
Then classic comes out.
I play retail 1 hour a day. I play classic one hour a day.

See how it's zero sum for time, retail lost no players, and classic still has one? I don't understand why I'm having to give a proof by example for this. This isn't a hard to understand concept. Things other than retail and classic exist and take time. Playing one DOES NOT automatically mean taking from the other. This is not debatable. It's not an opinion. It's an objective fact.

Of course, I suspect what you're really doing is backing down from your "it's zero sum!" argument to a more defensible "SOME PEOPLE might quit retail for wow" because you know your "its zero sum" is flawed.

Your argument doesn't make sense. You just showed two examples of different activities that lower the amount of time one can play retail. Both of those activities negatively impact a player's experience if they care about retail population. Retail lost active time from both activities.

Interesting similar case about public schools in the US: It is illegal to have "Christmas" celebrations in school. Separation of church and state. What many schools then did is they created an 'all-inclusive' celebration where they also celebrated Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, etc. However, this is not a legal solution. Instead of fixing the issue, they now have multiple violations of separation of church and state. Listing something else that is detrimental to someone's enjoyment of the game doesn't make the first one OK, it makes us aware of ANOTHER detriment.

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Your attempted point was that playing Classic and Retail is a inherently a Zero-Sum game. It's emphatically not, as that ASSUMES everyone plays in a such a way. It may be a zero-sum game for specific individuals in their own lives. For the world at large, though, it is not.

No, it does not assume that everyone plays in such a way. I have evidence that it worked in such a way at least one time. That proves my point. I do not need to show it works for all, but for at least one. I know one person in which this is the case. Therefore, Classic lowered population on my realm by at least 1. If at least one person doesn't play retail because of Classic, it is net negative.

[Lolites]

To answer your question, there's not many people anywhere still playing retail.

spoken like someone who wasnt logged in retail for ages...
i play on high pop realm and at any time i log in theres a crapload of people...

[Seranthor]

I'm not a mod either for what it's worth. And I'm plenty critical when I think the topic deserves it.

I know you aren't a mod anymore... but the person I was responding too apparently failed to realize that.