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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwgmon View Post
    I'm liking it, though I feel like they should lose interest if you touch the ground before they get too close (they should still chomp you if they're right on your heels), or make it to the "safe" area. The slowing debuff seems like it does a good job making you feel more and more helpless as it starts to gain on you (and it's more noticeable than having it speed up to catch you) which I find amusing.
    They don't lose interest if you sit on the ground? That would suck. I hoped they worked similarly to the Mechagon flying guys.

  2. #42
    Doesn't seem right that they would persist to chase you when you land, (punished for doing the thing they want you to do which is be on the ground) even if you dismount, yet them instantaneously unleashing if you do would be gamed to make them non threats. If they do unleash on ground but it takes a while this fixes a lot of that, and would make it more interactive than a corpse run, which is exactly the same gameplay as flying (auto-path alt tab with no engagement). Class abilities that drop combat like invis, vanish, feign, meld, etc. should probably work like raid bosses where it works if you do it early and far enough, but if they're inside or on top of you it's too late, depending on how numerous these things are. Whale Shark or Deathwing burning zones feels like the kind of ideal frequency, as those worked well back then.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Well, to me AFK is really AFK. If I'm there and actively flying (i.e. controlling my character in flight) that's different. I do get what you mean but that's not really different from riding across open ground except, as you note, that sometimes the ground has mobs whereas the air never has aside from Mechagon.

    This solution has always been my answer to the silly, Bashiok-inspired "flying removes danger" objection to flight. Fine, add danger then. Either in the form of flying mobs or anti-aircraft weapons or both, depending on the situation.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But if you're really afk, who cares if the route is scenic aside from the slight extra time it takes?
    There is a significant difference in danger between being semi-afk when flying and when using a ground mount. Mostly by virtue of the paths you need to follow to avoid enemies are fairly narrow and often winding in weird directions, when flying the only risk you are running is hitting a mountain to trigger normal ground mount mode, or overshooting and hitting hte fatigue zone.



    But yes, there is definitely a way to make flying dangerous enough to force people to the ground, but i am, not sure it would work regardless.

    I have yet to see a zone in WoW trily made better by the inclusion of flying mounts. Even zones thyat require it often make me consider how it could be made more epic by removing flying entirely.

    The airships in Icecrown are cool and all, but what would make it really interesting as a gameplay element was if it allowed you to parachute down, meaning the meandering movement across the glacier would serve a gameplay purpose.
    Storm peaks as well, cool as it is to create a zone that requires flying to navigate, it also lessens the size and spectacle of the areas around you as flying to the top and noticing how small the area really is lessens the illusion.

    The new zones in Cata are perhaps closest, but even then mostly because many of the questlines ground you or otherwise removes your flying entirely, Hyjal for instance loses some of the intended effect of descending the mountain as flying makes backtracking to higher areas a simple matter. Vashj'ir is perhaps the only zone to truly make "flying" feel integrated into the game, and players hated that zone.

  4. #44
    @FelPlague I can’t check the gify links at work but how close are they together? If it’s anything like the jellyfish on the Behemoth fight in EP I think it’d be good. They’re dangerous, but if you’re on your toes it’s usually a non-issue. Same with the HK-8 aerial suppression unit on Mechagon. It’ll blast you out of the sky if you’re not careful. I don’t know why blizzard doesn’t just design ALL zones with things like this and let us fly from more or less the start.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  5. #45
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    The point was about afking and numlock, not auto-running in itself.
    There one in the same a lot of the time. Why should I stay tabbed in or even at my keyboard when I can auto run and fly over every thing.

  6. #46
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    They don't lose interest if you sit on the ground? That would suck. I hoped they worked similarly to the Mechagon flying guys.
    check out the clip, once they start following you, they will follow you till you get out of their aggro range.
    and if they reach you they 1 shot you.
    and as long as your flying they will keep slowing you, so best way to avoid them is to... avoid them, or as soon as one targets you fly to the ground and run across the ground.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    @<a href="https://www.mmo-champion.com/member.php?u=1237900" target="_blank">FelPlague</a> I can’t check the gify links at work but how close are they together? If it’s anything like the jellyfish on the Behemoth fight in EP I think it’d be good. They’re dangerous, but if you’re on your toes it’s usually a non-issue. Same with the HK-8 aerial suppression unit on Mechagon. It’ll blast you out of the sky if you’re not careful. I don’t know why blizzard doesn’t just design ALL zones with things like this and let us fly from more or less the start.
    LOLOLOL their range is huge my dude. there is not as many as there is the jellyfish on behemoth but their range is HUGE.
    will try to grab some pictures from the twitch clips. also they arnt gify links.
    https://puu.sh/EO0cx/fb321b51d6.mp4
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2019-12-10 at 07:56 PM.
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    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  7. #47
    Remove the slow effect, leave the worms and give them a decent (but not ridiculous) ranged attack if aggro'd and could make flying a bit of fun for those who are not aware of their surroundings. That way people who play smart can avoid them but still run a chance to be unlucky.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Oh HELL NO. That would be crap. Fly to a place, get a quest, mount up and you see "Wait 5 minutes to fly"? Or you're flying and you get "Land now or you'll be dismounted in 5 seconds?" Think about that.

    Making flying more involving and active is fine. Putting restrictions on it sheerly as punishment is bullshit.
    Uhm, yeah, people would have to adapt and think of how to use flying effectively. You would have choices instead of being forced to dismount because of some stacking debuff or air unit shooting at you. And if they retstricted flying duration there would obviously be some kind of exhaustion bar.

    Also, I don't think you can make active flying in WoW enjoyable or engaging. Mainly for engine reasons. Navigating vertically in WoW has always been a mess.

  9. #49
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    There is a significant difference in danger between being semi-afk when flying and when using a ground mount. Mostly by virtue of the paths you need to follow to avoid enemies are fairly narrow and often winding in weird directions, when flying the only risk you are running is hitting a mountain to trigger normal ground mount mode, or overshooting and hitting hte fatigue zone.
    Like I said...


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    But yes, there is definitely a way to make flying dangerous enough to force people to the ground, but i am, not sure it would work regardless.
    It doesn't have to (and shouldn't ) force people to the ground, just make flying more interactive and part of the world. Again, see Mechagon where you generally aren't killed or hurt by them but if they target you enough, they'll fire on you.... yet you can evade that by diving, etc. All the advantages of flying but you're aware that you sometimes are over or near enemy territory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post

    I have yet to see a zone in WoW trily made better by the inclusion of flying mounts.
    I don't think zones NEED to be made better by flight, anymore than they are made better by ground mounts vs walking. Flight is a player perk that enables you to get from place to place in a cooler, faster way. It also allows them to make zones larger if they want or to ask you to travel more without it being as annoying.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    There one in the same a lot of the time. Why should I stay tabbed in or even at my keyboard when I can auto run and fly over every thing.
    Because you will overshoot your target or will be shot down, as has been the case since TBC.
    Looking away from the screen a few seconds isn't afking.

    And besides - do you really use numlock?

  11. #51
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    Uhm, yeah, people would have to adapt and think of how to use flying effectively. You would have choices instead of being forced to dismount because of some stacking debuff or air unit shooting at you. And if they retstricted flying duration there would obviously be some kind of exhaustion bar.

    Also, I don't think you can make active flying in WoW enjoyable or engaging. Mainly for engine reasons. Navigating vertically in WoW has always been a mess.
    No. It's nothing but a method to restrict and punish you for using flight. That's bullshit design since it's artificial. Flying threats, done well, are integral to the game. See Mechagon. You don't have dragons attacking you, you have hostile machines because King Mechagon is fighting you.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    No. It's nothing but a method to restrict and punish you for using flight. That's bullshit design since it's artificial. Flying threats, done well, are integral to the game. See Mechagon. You don't have dragons attacking you, you have hostile machines because King Mechagon is fighting you.
    How are hostile flying machines not a method to restrict and punish flight? And how is an exhausted mount less realistic that enemies attacking you in the air?

    Well, doesn't matter. I simply don't like the Mechagon approach. I think it's annoying and leaves you no choices.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I don't think zones NEED to be made better by flight, anymore than they are made better by ground mounts vs walking. Flight is a player perk that enables you to get from place to place in a cooler, faster way. It also allows them to make zones larger if they want or to ask you to travel more without it being as annoying.
    I suppose that is true in some way.
    Generally though flying as it is is just far too convenient a tool. Ground mounts have several limitations on them already that make it closer to the ideal place for flying mounts, that being that you can still be spotted by enemies, and if they hit you, you are dazed. The speed increase is also minor enough that it is still feasible to classes with movement speed abilities to move between quest objectives faster than mounting up.

    Generally though i dislike flying for being a creative dead-end as it is.
    For players like me that went through WoD i am sure there are others that remembers Aviana's feather, which allowed something closer to flight, but still restrictive enough to allow players a sense of accomplishment for doing things like finding the easter eggs on top of the mountains of Draenor, or just get from ogre waygates to raids unimpeded (or have fun for a week when it was possible to use in old raids)
    Same thing with the emerald wings and/or hunter glide item, which i had a blast using to explore various areas in the Broken isles.

    In BfA similarly i spent quite a bit going around with a DH alt trying to scale Mount Mugamba, or the highest peak in Drustvar. I still remember the first time i got to the top of Mount Mugamba, or that other mountain between Tiragarde and Stormsong, and seeing the dragon skeletons on top referencing Warcraft 2.


    Moments like these lose their charm when flying is allowed.
    Though i will definitely take the system we have now over allowing flying entirely from the beginning, at least i get a little while of having the world feel big.

  14. #54
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Because you will overshoot your target or will be shot down, as has been the case since TBC.
    Looking away from the screen a few seconds isn't afking.

    And besides - do you really use numlock?
    Overshooting where I’m trying to go has happened but it doesn’t really matter as I’ve only gone into the ocean once and got back to my computer before I died.

    Being shot down only really happened in tbc in wrath it was a non issue just like cata,mop,wod,legion and bfa.

    Also no one has said looking away from the screen is afking it’s been stated a few times that we’re talking about things like tabbing out of the game or leaving the computer all together while auto flying.

    I also rebound auto run years ago I use an extra button on my mouse and use it pretty much non stop unless I’m actively doing a quest or am in combat.

  15. #55
    Increases interactivity == good thing
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    How so? 10/
    Gimping is annoying.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Overshooting where I’m trying to go has happened but it doesn’t really matter as I’ve only gone into the ocean once and got back to my computer before I died.

    Being shot down only really happened in tbc in wrath it was a non issue just like cata,mop,wod,legion and bfa.
    It's a non-issue in legion and bfa since you can just use the whistle and be on a flight-path; and be safe from everything and about as close.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    I also rebound auto run years ago I use an extra button on my mouse and use it pretty much non stop unless I’m actively doing a quest or am in combat.
    As has most people that toggle auto-run, it seems the only one that haven't realized this are the ones spreading the false myth about flying leading to numlock and afking.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    First, how many people really AFK while flying? It would work for really long flights but if you're flying from, say, Darnassus to Gadget you take a taxi if you're smart. If you are flying from one place to another in the same zone AFKing will almost certainly see you overshoot your destination. unless you're just tabbing out really quick. So, to me, that's not a really issue.

    On topic - I like this kind of mechanic if and only if they give us flight sooner. I've never heard an anti flight argument that really holds up but if they feel it removes too much danger for the player then fine, put dangers in the air. They do this in Mechagon and it's kind of cool.
    I have gone AFK while flying.... and it has almost never ended well lol

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    check out the clip, once they start following you, they will follow you till you get out of their aggro range.
    and if they reach you they 1 shot you.
    and as long as your flying they will keep slowing you, so best way to avoid them is to... avoid them, or as soon as one targets you fly to the ground and run across the ground.
    They aren't chasing anyone unless you try to dps them. Otherwise they just fly around a fixed path for the most part shooting goo at anyone in there huge aggro range if you register as flying.

    The goop itself is nothing really for maxed out flying unless your stacks get high 30% each stack, probably be a bitch for those not maxed out though. As for the debuff it will wear off while you finish the quests on the ground anyways. Course PTR so any of this could change...

  20. #60
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    It's a non-issue in legion and bfa since you can just use the whistle and be on a flight-path; and be safe from everything and about as close.


    As has most people that toggle auto-run, it seems the only one that haven't realized this are the ones spreading the false myth about flying leading to numlock and afking.
    You can use the whistle to get back to a fly point but you can’t use it to get out to the world like flying.

    while on the ground you can’t afk in most cases as you run into mobs or get stuck on stuff, neither of these happen with flying as you just go above both.

    Just using auto run is not the same as being able to use it above any thing that would stop you then tabbing out/going afk.

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