Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    People quite literally almost overthrew their own governments because of an increase in fuel taxes. People don't want action :/
    They do.

    Politicians shouldn't be cunts though and expect the bottom portion of society to carry all the burden.

  2. #22
    Research and innovation. We use energy and resources at an amazing rate and greed won't ever leave humanity so we efficient energy and materials is a way to work with the greed. While we do have a variety of answers such as solar and reusing waste, can't claim those answers lack downsides.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Given our civlization's historic problems with hunger, and especially access to beef, Climate Change dictating what people can and cannot eat is non-negotiable.

    Find another way. But the morality (and to a great degree, historic success) of fighting hunger and bringing nutrition to the world supercedes the climate cause.

    We can go after industrialized farming after we've starting to build nuclear plants at a prodigious rate, replaced coal and gas, and electrified transportation.
    I'm just laughing at the notion of eating less beef being so detrimental to somebodys life that they'd describe it as "dystopian". Of course pressing matters are moving our energy sources to renewable/nuclear but going after the farming industry beef/palm oil is equally important and shouldn't be put to the side just because some fat fucks will throw a fit

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Pretty much this. Those protests seem to be some form of escapism when people pretend to do something significant and important
    ... What? I'm pretty confused how you got that out of what I typed. It was just a low effort shit post.
    What have the years of your life taught you to be?

  5. #25
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    17,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Pretty much this. Those protests seem to be some form of escapism when people pretend to do something significant and important
    Yeah, 5 years ago I viewed all these left-leaning protests as concerning. Now I see them more accurately, it's reminescent of LARPing except the people actually believe they are characters who are saving the world.

    If they really wanted to "save the planet" then they would go into the relevant STEM fields to start developing the solutions.
    Last edited by PC2; 2019-12-11 at 05:26 PM.
    -------
    Quote of the month:
    All interesting problems are soluble.
    Logical Fallacies: Ad hominem, Generalizing history to pre-determine the future.

  6. #26
    Instead of focusing on China's GHG emmisions, we focus on meat consumption.
    Instead of focusing on India's plastics in the rivers and oceans, we focus on plastic straws.
    We look at the tiny changes instead of the big, important, impactful ones.

    One can only wonder if there is a "not accomplish anything" agenda in play
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  7. #27
    If only there was some new deal to revolutionize ones economy to combat climate change.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Dystopian lifestyle lol

    Like what not eating obscene portions with beef for every meal? The horror
    That isn’t Dystopian.

    Things like, say, restricting air travel to a yearly lottery system is.

    Imagine not being able to fly to another state to visit your family because air travel is restricted. And don’t get me wrong. I am ready and willing to fucking shut off the electricity and internet if that is what it takes. In fact I think that is what may be needed at this point.

    I don’t consider living a life without electricity, capitalism l or vehicle travel “dystopian”. But for a lot of people it is. That’s my point.

  9. #29

  10. #30
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    61,552
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    Instead of focusing on China's GHG emmisions, we focus on meat consumption.
    Instead of focusing on India's plastics in the rivers and oceans, we focus on plastic straws.
    We look at the tiny changes instead of the big, important, impactful ones.

    One can only wonder if there is a "not accomplish anything" agenda in play
    It's more that there isn't any real way to force India or China to change anything.

    What we can change is our own issues.

    Tilting at windmills wins you nothing.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    They do.

    Politicians shouldn't be cunts though and expect the bottom portion of society to carry all the burden.
    The bottom of society won't carry the whole of the burden of a fuel tax or even a good chunk of it or any similar policies like carbon tax.

    Its weird as hell that leftists say that the rich pollute the most but are also able to somehow say that a fuel tax or something similar is putting all the burden on the bottom of society.

    Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    The bottom of society won't carry the whole of the burden of a fuel tax or even a good chunk of it or any similar policies like carbon tax.

    Its weird as hell that leftists say that the rich pollute the most but are also able to somehow say that a fuel tax or something similar is putting all the burden on the bottom of society.

    Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Are you still in college? Otherwise you would know very well, that there are a thousand and one regulations through which you can be exempt from such taxes. In fact in certain states and countries there are usually plain laws that state that you are exempt from oil or fuel taxes if the purchase is made in quantities above 30-50 gallons etc. (Just a nice little cut-off so only common people can't get to enjoy the exemptions...)

    Neoliberal lies are just as bad as alt-right lies.

    Of course this left me to wonder so I had to look it up and OFCOURSE there are lots of laws and regulations to keep companies exempt from carbon tax too. Not to mention the trickle down of costs when they aren't...

    Nice scam. In fact after reading up on all these exemptions I am even more pissed off at the wealthy than I was yesterday...
    Last edited by Rochana; 2019-12-12 at 06:55 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Taxing carbon emissions and nuclearizing the electrical sector are straightforward solutions available to developed countries that wouldn't require anyone live a "drastically different and almost dystopian lifestyle". Throw in government-backed geoengineering research and we'd have a pretty good start on solving the problem without radically reshaping anyone's life.

    More to the point, protestors aren't the ones that need to have a full grasp of technocratic policy solutions. Their goal is to identify a problem and drive politicians to begin action, not to pass out information on what the exact appropriate Pigovian tax levels or direction of research is.
    *feels sad he lives in the Netherlands because they nearly went Dystopian and different with there climate plans*
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  14. #34
    Beef really isn't a major issue in terms of climate change in the long run. Yes, they produce gases that increase radiative forcing, but it's produced from the digestion of plants, which fixated those same components.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's more that there isn't any real way to force India or China to change anything.

    What we can change is our own issues.

    Tilting at windmills wins you nothing.
    90% of the plastic in the oceans comes from 10 rivers:
    Eight of them are in Asia: the Yangtze; Indus; Yellow; Hai He; Ganges; Pearl; Amur; Mekong;
    and two in Africa – the Nile and the Niger.

    source: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...ust-10-rivers/


    When the whole of the rest of the world combined is only 10% of the plastics in the oceans, talking about plastics anywhere else, is "tilting at windmills". It is basically a "not accomplish anything" thing
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  16. #36
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Elizabeth Warren's BDSM dungeon.
    Posts
    46,659
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    90% of the plastic in the oceans comes from 10 rivers:
    Eight of them are in Asia: the Yangtze; Indus; Yellow; Hai He; Ganges; Pearl; Amur; Mekong;
    and two in Africa – the Nile and the Niger.

    source: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...ust-10-rivers/

    When the whole of the rest of the world combined is only 10% of the plastics in the oceans, talking about plastics anywhere else, is "tilting at windmills". It is basically a "not accomplish anything" thing
    Give you a bit of a hint:

    Most of that plastic waste is being produced by like 3 to 4 corporations all of whom are legally within the jurisdiction of the US and can be made subject to financial penalties for their role in the climate crisis.

    Also - reducing reliance on plastic products in the West introduces alternative technologies that become cheaper over time for countries like India and China to adopt. Like how investment into solar has massively brought down the price over the past two decades.

    But hey don't let that stop you banging on the 'someone else's problem' drum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Terf is a derogatory term that's used to silence women.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Give you a bit of a hint:

    Most of that plastic waste is being produced by like 3 to 4 corporations all of whom are legally within the jurisdiction of the US and can be made subject to financial penalties for their role in the climate crisis.

    Also - reducing reliance on plastic products in the West introduces alternative technologies that become cheaper over time for countries like India and China to adopt. Like how investment into solar has massively brought down the price over the past two decades.

    But hey don't let that stop you banging on the 'someone else's problem' drum.
    It is not someone else's problem. It is our problem.
    OUR problem is the millions of people in Asia and Africa that are dumping the plastic (and millions of other things) into their rivers.
    The problem is not that plastic exists. Or that plastic is produced. The problem is how they use it and how they dispose it.
    To solve our problem, we have to stop them from causing it. That is the root of the problem.

    But hey. Go ahead and stop some random guy in canada from using a single-use plastic straw and then dump it into recycle. That will help a lot...
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  18. #38
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Elizabeth Warren's BDSM dungeon.
    Posts
    46,659
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    It is not someone else's problem. It is our problem.
    OUR problem is the millions of people in Asia and Africa that are dumping the plastic (and millions of other things) into their rivers.
    The problem is not that plastic exists. Or that plastic is produced. The problem is how they use it and how they dispose it.
    To solve our problem, we have to stop them from causing it. That is the root of the problem.

    But hey. Go ahead and stop some random guy in canada from using a single-use plastic straw and then dump it into recycle. That will help a lot...
    Sorry, are you saying the problem with plastic waste isn't the fact it's caused by...plastic?

    Blaming pollution on consumers in China and India is exactly the same thing as getting all bitchy about consumers using single use straws or plastic bags - in that they're both moronic talking points designed to deflect attention from the actual problem.

    The problem is not that plastic exists - the problem is that plastic is used despite its environmental damage for things like packaging simply because it is cheaper to do so. And the fault for that ultimately lies with, as said, like five or six corporations and the economic system in which they exist.

    I'm curious why you think it's less of a 'command economy' thing to say "we need to stop consumers in Asia and Africa" rather than like, regulating companies to make it more costly for them to use plastic in their packaging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Terf is a derogatory term that's used to silence women.

  19. #39
    In general, I'm a little frustrated with a lack of meaningful outfits in pushing for changes in climate change policy. Ultimately, what I want is legislation (taxation/regulation and bans), all with teeth, seeking to limit general emissions. This goes for other environmental causes. Unfortunately, it seems like environmentalism has wrapped itself in the 'good guy' image. Instead, they should be taking full advantage of 501c4s to run endless negative ads against vulnerable politicians that won't play ball, honeytraps and swiftboats included.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's more that there isn't any real way to force India or China to change anything.

    What we can change is our own issues.

    Tilting at windmills wins you nothing.
    It's true, we can't do much to force them to change their ways that wouldn't bankrupt the entire world economy.

    I made up an analogy months ago on this forum about a giant river, and every country was along it. Everyone dumps their daily raw sewage into the river. Suddenly America says they aren't doing it anymore. What exactly does that change for the quality of the river water? Not really much. The analogy kind of falls apart on a global scale, but it's just a little analogy that I still kind of like. Yes, we should be doing out part. Yes, China and India should be doing their part. But no one is going to force anyone to do their parts unless they have an easier way to do things than the current dump everything first and ask questions later approach we have now.
    Quote Originally Posted by blobbydan View Post
    We're all doomed. Let these retards shuffle the chairs on the titanic. They can die in a safe space if they want to... Whatever. What a miserable joke this life is. I can't wait until it's all finally over and I can return to the sweet oblivion of the void.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •