Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    It may be valid to you, however if it goes against the vision of Israel that to religious Jews come from G-d, it will be dismissed as interference in affairs that do not concern you.
    That's still a really long step away from being anti-semitic.

    Big difference between "Hey, mind your own business!" and "Why do you hate jews?"

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Not liking the behavior of the Israeli government doesn't mean that liberals hate Jews. That just means they disagree with the actions of the Israeli government, which represents Jews, Christians, Muslims, other religions, and those who do not follow any religion.

    This is a strawman argument and always has been. And it's sure not "leftists" that have been behind any of the antisemetic attacks at synagogues around the world, that I can think of. Those have largely been far-right extremists.
    Can we agree that this crap is no longer far-right anymore?

    The POTUS emboldens these people and dog whistles to them.

    This shit is just the regular right now.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    This is some dishonest bull shit. You link the hate crime victims but then instead of linking the arrest which is right under it you jump to a different metric.
    Suspects seem more relevant to me than arrests since you're not going to catch everyone. I linked the data source and provided the page, people can look at further data if they're interested. You can disagree with which stat is better to use, that's fine.

    I bring up shootings because I'm personally more concerned about whether someone might shoot me than whether someone might spray rude graffiti on my house. The lack of shootings by whites in New York City pretty significantly undercuts the thread premise that New Yorkers should be worried about white supremacist violence. People shouldn't generally have much worry that they're going to be randomly attacked by roving bands of neo-Nazis.
    Last edited by Spectral; 2019-12-13 at 07:36 PM.

  4. #124
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Suspects seem more relevant to me than arrests since you're not going to catch everyone. I linked the data source and provided the page, people can look at further data if they're interested. You can disagree with which stat is better to use, that's fine.

    I bring up shootings because I'm personally more concerned about whether someone might shoot me than whether someone might spray rude graffiti on my house. The lack of shootings by whites in New York City pretty significantly undercuts the thread premise that New Yorkers should be worried about white supremacist violence. People shouldn't generally have much worry that they're going to be randomly attacked by roving bands of neo-Nazis.
    Suspects are irrelevant unless arrested as you can be a suspect but then be found to be not involved.

    And it’s obvious why you left out the relevant data when discussing hate crimes as you know it doesn't line up with what your trying to say and it’s easier to move the goal post to shootings or suspects instead of the concrete numbers. You know many people won’t look at the data so you use dishonest tactics to try and pretend it fits your point.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2019-12-13 at 08:08 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Suspects are irrelevant unless arrested as you can be a suspect but then be found to be not involved.

    And it’s obvious why you left out the relevant data when discussing hate crimes as you know it doesn't line up with what your trying to say and it’s easier to move the goal post to shootings or suspects instead of the concert numbers. You know many people won’t look at the data so you use dishonest tactics to try and pretend it fits your point.
    I don't know what concert numbers are.

    Anyway, I think focusing on "hate crimes" is generally silly when I personally wouldn't much prefer being shot by someone that doesn't hate me. The point is that the hysteria about Nazis in New York City is ridiculous - you might get murdered in New York, but Nazis are pretty unlikely to be the people that kill you there.

  6. #126
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I don't know what concert numbers are.

    Anyway, I think focusing on "hate crimes" is generally silly when I personally wouldn't much prefer being shot by someone that doesn't hate me. The point is that the hysteria about Nazis in New York City is ridiculous - you might get murdered in New York, but Nazis are pretty unlikely to be the people that kill you there.
    So now after it’s been pointed out that your trying to mislead hate crimes don’t matter? That conflicts rather strongly with your original post.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    So now after it’s been pointed out that your trying to mislead hate crimes don’t matter? That conflicts rather strongly with your original post.
    Not really. I've had two core points that I stand by:

    1. You're probably not going to be a victim of Nazi violence.
    2. The linked article misleads people about Nazi violence by providing an example that wasn't done by Nazis.

    I apologize if I haven't been sufficiently clear about what my central claims are.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    It would depend on what the criticism is, as that video points out.
    As I said, Valid Criticism...not "jews are bad" criticism.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Not really. I've had two core points that I stand by:

    2. The linked article misleads people about Nazi violence by providing an example that wasn't done by Nazis.

    I apologize if I haven't been sufficiently clear about what my central claims are.
    What article are you talking about? Because neither the OP article nor the one you linked about the Jersey incident do that.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    What article are you talking about? Because neither the OP article nor the one you linked about the Jersey incident do that.
    The framing in the OP article doesn't outright say "Nazis did this", but it opens with discussion of "far-right groups", discusses the Jersey murders, then moves onto discussing the Proud Boys. A reader that's unfamiliar with the Jersey murders would certainly be inclined to believe that they're an example of neo-Nazis violence. I realize that now that this has been pointed out people will insist that this definitely isn't what the NYT is trying to do though.

  11. #131
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Not really. I've had two core points that I stand by:

    1. You're probably not going to be a victim of Nazi violence.
    2. The linked article misleads people about Nazi violence by providing an example that wasn't done by Nazis.

    I apologize if I haven't been sufficiently clear about what my central claims are.
    It absolutely is a conflict to bring up a hate crime and then say
    So anyway, yes, New York City should track anti-Semites closely because they do have an anti-Semitism problem, but it's mostly not coming from the people that the New York Times wants you to picture when you think "anti-Semite".
    Only to in the next breath say they shouldn’t focus on hate crimes because people get shot from non hate crimes.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    It absolutely is a conflict to bring up a hate crime and then say

    Only to in the next breath say they shouldn’t focus on hate crimes because people get shot from non hate crimes.
    OK man. Sorry for your confusion.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The framing in the OP article doesn't outright say "Nazis did this", but it opens with discussion of "far-right groups", discusses the Jersey murders, then moves onto discussing the Proud Boys. A reader that's unfamiliar with the Jersey murders would certainly be inclined to believe that they're an example of neo-Nazis violence. I realize that now that this has been pointed out people will insist that this definitely isn't what the NYT is trying to do though.
    So I'm clear, the article does not say nor imply what you said it did, because you decided it did, then it did and if people point out it didn't, then they must be lying.

    Cool. Makes perfect sense.

    Sigh.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  14. #134
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    OK man. Sorry for your confusion.
    There’s no confusion you trying to deflect away from your own statement because the data doesn’t back it up is crystal clear.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    There’s no confusion you trying to deflect away from your own statement because the data doesn’t back it up is crystal clear.
    Don't forget, like most conservatives from Spectral to Trump, if they skim an article and get the wrong impression, then the author/media company is biased and lied.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Don't forget, like most conservatives from Spectral to Trump, if they skim an article and get the wrong impression, then the author/media company is biased and lied.
    You'll note that I didn't get the wrong impression - the people freaking out about New York Nazis did. Well, I suppose you won't note that, but others should.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    You'll note that I didn't get the wrong impression - the people freaking out about New York Nazis did. Well, I suppose you won't note that, but others should.
    " A reader that's unfamiliar with the Jersey murders would certainly be inclined to believe that they're an example of neo-Nazis violence", ........is what you said.

    There's nothing in the article at all, that says the Jersey murders were an example of Neo-Nazi violence. Doesn't say it, doesn't imply it, doesn't misdirect to it. It bothered you so much, you've had to argue about it and tout it like it actually happened.

    So either you got the wrong impression about it OR you made it up.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    " A reader that's unfamiliar with the Jersey murders would certainly be inclined to believe that they're an example of neo-Nazis violence", ........is what you said.

    There's nothing in the article at all, that says the Jersey murders were an example of Neo-Nazi violence. Doesn't say it, doesn't imply it, doesn't misdirect to it. It bothered you so much, you've had to argue about it and tout it like it actually happened.

    So either you got the wrong impression about it OR you made it up.
    There's absolutely no way that this is how you usually read articles. You'd have to have some bizarre dissociative disorder to not see any implication by that paragraph being sandwiched between sections about neo-Nazis if that's not the underlying implication. Articles have central themes that they support via the fact pattern therein, they're not just random strings of facts.

    To be blunt, I think you've degenerated this into a deliberately retarded argument, so you can have the last word on it. Either you actually can't accomplish the basics of reading comprehension or you're denying obvious reality to try to score points.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    There's absolutely no way that this is how you usually read articles. You'd have to have some bizarre dissociative disorder to not see any implication by that paragraph being sandwiched between sections about neo-Nazis if that's not the underlying implication. Articles have central themes that they support via the fact pattern therein, they're not just random strings of facts.

    To be blunt, I think you've degenerated this into a deliberately retarded argument, so you can have the last word on it. Either you actually can't accomplish the basics of reading comprehension or you're denying obvious reality to try to score points.
    Dafuq? You literally made up a pitfall that no one fell into...other than yourself and you blame that on MSM BIAS!!!!!!!!! Bullshit.

    You have a conservative hammer, therefore everything looks like a nail.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  20. #140
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    8,791
    This thread is closed.
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
    "If you have any concerns, let me know via PM. I'll do my best to assist you."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •