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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattleya View Post
    Not that i particularly care about this whole "PC price vs console price" argument (i use both for a variety of reasons), but why monitor? You don't add the cost of a TV to consoles, and if you have a TV but not a monitor, you could always hook the PC up to the TV.
    ~96% of households in the US have at least one TV. Less than 80% of households have a PC OR laptop.So the likelihood that a household will have a TV is almost guaranteed. Not so much for a monitor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I can understand keyboard and mouse but monitor and speakers? What's wrong with your TV you're using for the Xbox Series X? Also, why keyboard+mouse AND controller? Is a controller now required to play games on PC?
    The vast majority of people do not hook up their PC to their primary TV.

    A controller is the preferred method for a lot of styles of games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    What risk? That you're about to lose $4? That Ebay's and PayPal's return policy isn't up to the task to refund you $4?
    The risk of it not working? The risk of it getting cancelled at a random time after install? Sure, you might be able to get a refund eventually, after you spend a bunch more time.

    But I guess since you assume the time to assemble the computer is also free, that you place no value on time.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    ~96% of households in the US have at least one TV. Less than 80% of households have a PC OR laptop.So the likelihood that a household will have a TV is almost guaranteed. Not so much for a monitor.
    Right, but like I said, you can hook your PC up to the same TV you'd use for a console.

    Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the notion that you can build a PC equal to a console for the same price (and even if you could, it'd still perform worse because of optimization on consoles vs PC). I just think adding peripherals that aren't actually necessary into the mix harms the argument more than it helps.
    Last edited by Cattleya; 2019-12-24 at 02:19 AM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattleya View Post
    Right, but like I said, you can hook your PC up to the same TV you'd use for a console.

    Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the notion that you can build a PC equal to a console for the same price (and even if you could, it'd still perform worse because of optimization on consoles vs PC). I just think adding peripherals that aren't actually necessary into the mix harms the argument more than it helps.
    There's also the consideration as to what is more likely to happen though. Most people don't have a PC set up at the primary tv, for many reasons.

    At the very least, you would need an HDMI cord. It would also change what you need for a mouse & keyboard (you would most likely need wireless). You would also need a headset. All small costs that add up.

  4. #244
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    The vast majority of people do not hook up their PC to their primary TV.
    How do you know this? Have you been watching people through a Window?
    A controller is the preferred method for a lot of styles of games.
    Again, how do you know this? I've played every game ever with a keyboard and mouse, and the only games I wouldn't recommend doing this is with driving games. The only reason to stick with gamepads is because your muscle memory prevents you from learning how to use kb+mouse.
    The risk of it not working? The risk of it getting cancelled at a random time after install? Sure, you might be able to get a refund eventually, after you spend a bunch more time.
    Been doing it for years and nothing got cancelled.

    But I guess since you assume the time to assemble the computer is also free, that you place no value on time.
    I'm not going to get deep into the dynamics of how a PC works as I could spend pages on it. Fact is no console that charged $500 or more has done well in sales until the price was dropped, like an Xbox Series X Slim. In the Xbox One's case it never recovered and spends its entire life cycle in the shadow of the PS4. It was so bad for Xbox One that exclusive games had to be ported to PC so developers could get paid, because apparently the PC is a more reliable platform for income than the Xbox One.

    Fact is in December 2019 you can build the equivalent of a Xbox Series X for ~$700. Make it ~$870, who cares, the point is these consoles will be dated by the time they launch and the prices can't be high. $500 and you delay mass adoption for 2-3 years. Make it $600 and they might as well be the next 3DO. Consoles are meant to be a cheap alternative to PC gaming, not an expensive alternative. By December of 2020 the RTX 3060 will have been released, Intel's GPU would have long been out, and AMD will have Zen3 out near the end of 2020. Honestly I don't have much faith that AMD will have something cheap with Ray-Tracing in 2020.

  5. #245
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    "The same" RTX 2060 is literally comparable to the weakest Vega on the market that is closer to the Xbox One X GPU then it is to next gen systems. It's a GPU targeted at people playing below 4k.
    But didn't the specs for the series x get leaked and it's a 12 TFLOP gpu in it? The 2060 is a 12TFLOP gpu, so they're the same from everything we know so far.

  6. #246
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    But didn't the specs for the series x get leaked and it's a 12 TFLOP gpu in it? The 2060 is a 12TFLOP gpu, so they're the same from everything we know so far.
    You're quoting the 16bit/half precision number. Single precision is half that, so 6TFLOP.


    Anyways... out of town, tired and some leniency due to the nature of hardware topic... but this is overboard and get back to talking about the new Xbox and not this circle jerk of PC v Console or this gets closed.

  7. #247
    If they can maintain the 500$ price tag (incl. the controller) then this device will basically become a more affordable gaming pc, especially with the recent addition of mouse/keyboard as input devices.

  8. #248
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    You're quoting the 16bit/half precision number. Single precision is half that, so 6TFLOP.
    Was the leak based on fp32? I know the Vega 64 can do 12 Tflops but a GTX 1080 can do 8.873 TFLOPS, again all in fp32. In most benchmarks the GTX 1080 is faster than a Vega 64, so tflops aren't the be all end all in performance. We could say the Xbox Series X has the equivalent of a Vega 64 with Ray-Tracing capability, assuming all rumors are true. But if the Xbox Series X has 16GB of GDDR6 with a 256-bit bus then there won't be enough bandwidth to feed the Zen2 CPU and the Navi GPU in the console.

  9. #249
    The Lightbringer Lazuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Shit, I think I know the name of the band that does the song in that trailer and they're rad as fuck, but I can't remember their damn name >.<

    Interesting to see them change up the form factor, looks a lot more like a mini-tower.
    Is it the asian dudes that do heavy metal mongol shit?

    That was an atrocious trailer imo..
    LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    I think we may be waiting a long time for that to happen. Maybe even forever.

  10. #250
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Was the leak based on fp32? I know the Vega 64 can do 12 Tflops but a GTX 1080 can do 8.873 TFLOPS, again all in fp32. In most benchmarks the GTX 1080 is faster than a Vega 64, so tflops aren't the be all end all in performance. We could say the Xbox Series X has the equivalent of a Vega 64 with Ray-Tracing capability, assuming all rumors are true. But if the Xbox Series X has 16GB of GDDR6 with a 256-bit bus then there won't be enough bandwidth to feed the Zen2 CPU and the Navi GPU in the console.
    I was talking about the 2060 for the half precision, sorry, bad wording.
    No idea about the leak cause people are horrible at specifics.
    Last edited by Remilia; 2019-12-25 at 06:58 AM.

  11. #251
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    RedGamingTech made an analysis of the next gen consoles. They're my favorite source for all console hardware rumors. If you want to know the current rumors of these consoles this will get you caught up.

  12. #252
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    I was talking about the 2060 for the half precision, sorry, bad wording.
    No idea about the leak cause people are horrible at specifics.
    Because there's no specifics in what the 12Tflops is referring to. You really think they wouldn't use the number that seems bigger?

  13. #253
    I'm gonna wait for xbox series XXX
    hit & run posting lol

  14. #254
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Because there's no specifics in what the 12Tflops is referring to. You really think they wouldn't use the number that seems bigger?
    Well... you're quoting the 2060 being comparable with 12TFlops. I'm pointing out that that is only the case at half precision calculations and is useless for gaming as that's not really used. Leaks being unreliable and not specific is a different problem altogether but shouldn't be given an assumption that it's half or single precision computation.

  15. #255
    I will be buying PS5 - that's a no brainer.

    The case for xBox? I mean I bought original xOne (and then upgraded to X) because Forza and Halo and Gears. These games will be available on PC. xBox will have literally zero exclusives. Only reason to buy new xBox - game pass. Buuut PC game pass is a thing and right now its catalog is lacking compared to console one. Buuut Microsoft might bring PC catalog up to console level...

    I don't see any reason to own xBox for me. For others - game pass. Oh xBox, I preferred 360 to PS3, but now it's just sad. rip xbox
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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    I will be buying PS5 - that's a no brainer.

    The case for xBox? I mean I bought original xOne (and then upgraded to X) because Forza and Halo and Gears. These games will be available on PC. xBox will have literally zero exclusives. Only reason to buy new xBox - game pass.
    MS doesn't care where you play, they own Windows and they own Xbox so either way they get your money whether you buy a Xbox and then some games and game pass or you build a pc with Windows and get PC game pass or buy their exclusives on the windows store or play them in PC game pass, it's win-win for them.

    The reason for buying a Xbox for console exclusives died after the 360, you buy a xbox series x if your pc is an old piece of shit or you don't want to build one, some people just want the ease of pressing a power button and play a game within a minute and not fumble around with Windows and gpu drivers and errors etc.
    Also the power of the series X as a whole will probably be cheaper then buying a comparable CPU and GPU on PC and then you also need an SSD and Power Supply and Motherboard etc so some people will just get the Xbox instead.

    You are just missing the current/current day Microsoft vision about uniting PC and Xbox and play their games on both ( and soon on Xcloud ) it's not about pure xbox console exclusives anymore cause they own both their xbox and pc divisions so they get your cash either way, they want people to have options like for example play a game on Xbox and if someone wants to watch TV you switch to a PC and pick up right where you left off on Xbox.

    Exclusives aren't a nut buster for everyone, I got a Switch and sure wile I play Zelda and Mario and Pokémon I also got just as much if not more Indie stuff and 3th party games on there right now.
    I got it for the portability and being able to play sitting in bed before sleeping, I didn't even really think about the exclusives.
    Last edited by FluFF; 2019-12-27 at 07:23 PM.

  17. #257
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    New rumors suggest that the PS5 is 9 tflops and that there won't be any hardware Ray-Tracing. Which suggest PS5 is probably using RDNA1.0 and not 2.0. That means the Xbox Series X 12 tflop GPU may make the console very expensive.


  18. #258
    Vash you should really reconsider where you get your "news" from when Mark Cerny himself already confirmed hardware ray tracing on the PS5. This isn't a rumor, that is one thing already confirmed.

    Anyone calling Cerny a liar are likely the same dolts who claimed he would be wrong about PS4 and he couldn't get 8 GB of GDDR5, but low and behold he did.

  19. #259
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Vash you should really reconsider where you get your "news" from when Mark Cerny himself already confirmed hardware ray tracing on the PS5. This isn't a rumor, that is one thing already confirmed.

    Anyone calling Cerny a liar are likely the same dolts who claimed he would be wrong about PS4 and he couldn't get 8 GB of GDDR5, but low and behold he did.
    What he said was that, “There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware” which doesn't mean much when you look at AMD's patents in Ray-Tracing. Considering how AMD has yet to announce anything using Ray-Tracing, I'd imagine the hardware could be delayed. Either that or AMD's Ray-Tracing tech maybe too expensive and Sony decided to back off from the new RDNA2.0 hardware. The PS5 Pro maybe based on RDNA2.0 with hardware Ray-Tracing, which wouldn't make Mark Cerny technically wrong either.

    The Xbox Series X may not be the console Microsoft releases in 2020, since again it maybe too expensive and the tech may not be ready yet. Considering the name of the new Xbox, it may suggest that this is the equivalent of the Xbox One X, and that Microsoft decided to show off what is probably a $600-$700 console instead of the "Xbox" that'll be released in 2020. Since the PS5 sounds like it'll be based off the RX 5700, we could assume the same for the "Xbox" and not the Xbox Series X.

    You have to ask yourself, why would AMD give Sony and Microsoft their most powerful GPU that'll most likely be $700 on PC, for much less than the entire consoles price?


  20. #260
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Was the leak based on fp32? I know the Vega 64 can do 12 Tflops but a GTX 1080 can do 8.873 TFLOPS, again all in fp32. In most benchmarks the GTX 1080 is faster than a Vega 64, so tflops aren't the be all end all in performance. We could say the Xbox Series X has the equivalent of a Vega 64 with Ray-Tracing capability, assuming all rumors are true. But if the Xbox Series X has 16GB of GDDR6 with a 256-bit bus then there won't be enough bandwidth to feed the Zen2 CPU and the Navi GPU in the console.
    Tflops is like Mips was back in the day. Meaningless number. The "tflop" ratings of the PS4 Pro and XB1X are BS, because there are cards out there with lower "tflop" numbers that absolutely stomp them. The 2080 and 2080ti will definitely demolish whatever they're putting in the new consoles, and it doesn't even matter because Nvidia will have a new generation out by then. AMD has not been able to touch Nvidia on the high end since the launch of the 780ti. They're competitive in midrange and low end GPU's. Would I like to see AMD make a GPU that's competitive with the 2080ti? Sure. Competition is good. But it probably won't happen.

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