Microsoft Unveils Xbox Series X, The Next Generation Xbox

[Krastyn]

those peripherals will last you for literally forever. so yea, if you somehow dont already own a tower or a power cable then yea you have to buy it, but odds are you already have one and you can just use that instead of having to buy anything.

unlike a console where youre forced to buy every part, every time

You can discount some of the cost of the peripherals at best. To say a mouse lasts forever, is just plain laughable. A power supply from 15 years ago is going to be insufficient for today. This also assumes the person knows how to upgrade individual components of their PC. The average person does not.

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I've bought 20-30 keys and never had one not work. They're legit keys, they're just not keys bought in the US, most are Russian iirc.

So no one has ever bought a key that didn't work, or was deactivated after the fact?

[Onikaroshi]

So no one has ever bought a key that didn't work, or was deactivated after the fact?

I mean, that shit's happened in retail (opening boxes and stealing keys was a thing). So yes, somewhere, someone probably had a key not work, and I've heard rumors of deactivated games, but never seen it myself.

[Krastyn]

I did say it would cost $700 to build a PC equivalent to Xbox Series X. Also the $435 is what is current pricing, which I already said the RTX 2060 is unaffordable for most people. We're still a year away from these new consoles from being released and a lot can happen between now and then, like an 8 core Ryzen with decent graphics. So I expect prices to come down. But my point is that much like the PS4 and XB1, the hardware in those consoles will be mid range by the time they're released, and Nvidia will certainly have some sort of GTX 970 like GPU to make these consoles look obsolete. The only difference is this time Intel will also be making GPU's. The market is going to be very competitive next year.

I'd love to see you build a next gen PC with today's pricing using non-grey market sources. for $700.

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I mean, that shit's happened in retail (opening boxes and stealing keys was a thing). So yes, somewhere, someone probably had a key not work, and I've heard rumors of deactivated games, but never seen it myself.

When was the last time you heard someone get a defective OS key directly from Microsoft?

[Vash The Stampede]

I'd love to see you build a next gen PC with today's pricing using non-grey market sources. for $700.

Here you go, Merry Christmas. You can get Windows 10 Pro here for $4. This problem is only made worse for consoles in a year from now, especially if the PS5 and Xbox One are above $500. Intel plans to enter the market with what rumors suggest the equivalent of a RX 5700 with Ray-Tracing. It has terrible power efficiency, Raja Koduri style, but it'll be cheaper than the competition. 2020 is going to be an interesting year for gaming hardware, yes indeed.

[Krastyn]

Here you go, Merry Christmas. You can get Windows 10 Pro here for $4. This problem is only made worse for consoles in a year from now, especially if the PS5 and Xbox One are above $500. Intel plans to enter the market with what rumors suggest the equivalent of a RX 5700 with Ray-Tracing. It has terrible power efficiency, Raja Koduri style, but it'll be cheaper than the competition. 2020 is going to be an interesting year for gaming hardware, yes indeed.

Mouse, keyboard, monitor, controller, speakers?

And once again, buying a Windows key of Ebay carries a much higher risk than retail.

[Cattleya]

Mouse, keyboard, monitor, controller, speakers?

And once again, buying a Windows key of Ebay carries a much higher risk than retail.

Not that i particularly care about this whole "PC price vs console price" argument (i use both for a variety of reasons), but why monitor? You don't add the cost of a TV to consoles, and if you have a TV but not a monitor, you could always hook the PC up to the TV.

[Tech614]

Here you go, Merry Christmas.

CPU weaker then in next gen systems: Check
GPU weaker then in next gen systems: Check
500 GB non NVME SSD: Check
Shittiest PSU brand known to man to save money on the list war but would never buy: Check

You really proved nothing, other then how low of a value a PC build will be compared to next gen systems. You built a vastly inferior system in all metrics(CPU, GPU and storage speed) for nearly $200+ more then the consoles will cost.

[Temp name]

CPU weaker then in next gen systems: Check
GPU weaker then in next gen systems: Check
500 GB non NVME SSD: Check
Shittiest PSU brand known to man to save money on the list war but would never buy: Check

You really proved nothing, other then how low of a value a PC build will be compared to next gen systems. You built a vastly inferior system in all metrics(CPU, GPU and storage speed) for nearly $200+ more then the consoles will cost.

Just saying, the GPU is the same as next gen systems, and the CPU doesn't matter for 60fps.

[Tech614]

Just saying, the GPU is the same as next gen systems, and the CPU doesn't matter for 60fps.

"The same" RTX 2060 is literally comparable to the weakest Vega on the market that is closer to the Xbox One X GPU then it is to next gen systems. It's a GPU targeted at people playing below 4k.

[Vash The Stampede]

Mouse, keyboard, monitor, controller, speakers?

I can understand keyboard and mouse but monitor and speakers? What's wrong with your TV you're using for the Xbox Series X? Also, why keyboard+mouse AND controller? Is a controller now required to play games on PC?

And once again, buying a Windows key of Ebay carries a much higher risk than retail.

What risk? That you're about to lose $4? That Ebay's and PayPal's return policy isn't up to the task to refund you $4?

CPU weaker then in next gen systems: Check
GPU weaker then in next gen systems: Check

Based on the rumors floating around these new consoles aren't going to be the mega performers you expect. The CPU will have either no L3 cache or half, which means it won't be faster or even as fast as a Ryzen 7 1600, let alone a 3600, assuming rumors are true. The GPU is a mystery but the rumors suggest it'll have 64 compute units but there's the issue of memory bandwidth as the rumors also suggest these consoles will have 16GB of memory, which means 256-bit bus, which means both the GPU and CPU will be lacking bandwidth regardless. So I think the CPU is faster than the Xbox Series X while the GPU is probably equivalent to the RTX 2060. Probably because info on the consoles GPU's is scarce.

500 GB non NVME SSD: Check

Doesn't make a different and here, now with NVME.

Shittiest PSU brand known to man to save money on the list war but would never buy: Check

OMG are you serious? Now with EVGA PSU, are you happy now? Literally makes no difference in price.

You really proved nothing, other then how low of a value a PC build will be compared to next gen systems. You built a vastly inferior system in all metrics(CPU, GPU and storage speed) for nearly $200+ more then the consoles will cost.

Keep in mind this build is right now, in 2019. The consoles won't be out until Holiday season of 2020, where nearly all the hardware I just listed won't be available, because something better and cheaper would have replaced them.

"The same" RTX 2060 is literally comparable to the weakest Vega on the market that is closer to the Xbox One X GPU then it is to next gen systems. It's a GPU targeted at people playing below 4k.

A Vega 56 is not equivalent to an Xbox One X. JERMgaming did a comparison to a RTX 2060 to a Xbox One X, with a cheap $150 old 2.66Ghz Dell and no, the Xbox One X is not even close.

My point still stands. If Microsoft and Sony don't keep their prices low then why not get a PC? You know, besides exclusives. $450 should be the most an Xbox Series X should be priced.

[Tech614]

My point still stands. If Microsoft and Sony don't keep their prices low then why not get a PC?

Get a $500 console or get a shit PC that is inferior to it in every way for $700.

Gee idk why would anyone do this?

NGL kinda skipped over the novel you wrote cause at this point it's kind of sad you're still parading this idea that console players would make the jump to PC for worse price/performance.

[Onikaroshi]

You know, if money wasn't involved at all, there'd be about zero reason to have the new Xbox.

Best coverage for exclusives would be ps5, switch and PC, with Xbox exclusives coming to PC.

[Krastyn]

Not that i particularly care about this whole "PC price vs console price" argument (i use both for a variety of reasons), but why monitor? You don't add the cost of a TV to consoles, and if you have a TV but not a monitor, you could always hook the PC up to the TV.

~96% of households in the US have at least one TV. Less than 80% of households have a PC OR laptop.So the likelihood that a household will have a TV is almost guaranteed. Not so much for a monitor.

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I can understand keyboard and mouse but monitor and speakers? What's wrong with your TV you're using for the Xbox Series X? Also, why keyboard+mouse AND controller? Is a controller now required to play games on PC?

The vast majority of people do not hook up their PC to their primary TV.

A controller is the preferred method for a lot of styles of games.

What risk? That you're about to lose $4? That Ebay's and PayPal's return policy isn't up to the task to refund you $4?

The risk of it not working? The risk of it getting cancelled at a random time after install? Sure, you might be able to get a refund eventually, after you spend a bunch more time.

But I guess since you assume the time to assemble the computer is also free, that you place no value on time.

[Cattleya]

~96% of households in the US have at least one TV. Less than 80% of households have a PC OR laptop.So the likelihood that a household will have a TV is almost guaranteed. Not so much for a monitor.

Right, but like I said, you can hook your PC up to the same TV you'd use for a console.

Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the notion that you can build a PC equal to a console for the same price (and even if you could, it'd still perform worse because of optimization on consoles vs PC). I just think adding peripherals that aren't actually necessary into the mix harms the argument more than it helps.

[Krastyn]

Right, but like I said, you can hook your PC up to the same TV you'd use for a console.

Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the notion that you can build a PC equal to a console for the same price (and even if you could, it'd still perform worse because of optimization on consoles vs PC). I just think adding peripherals that aren't actually necessary into the mix harms the argument more than it helps.

There's also the consideration as to what is more likely to happen though. Most people don't have a PC set up at the primary tv, for many reasons.

At the very least, you would need an HDMI cord. It would also change what you need for a mouse & keyboard (you would most likely need wireless). You would also need a headset. All small costs that add up.

[Vash The Stampede]

The vast majority of people do not hook up their PC to their primary TV.

How do you know this? Have you been watching people through a Window?

A controller is the preferred method for a lot of styles of games.

Again, how do you know this? I've played every game ever with a keyboard and mouse, and the only games I wouldn't recommend doing this is with driving games. The only reason to stick with gamepads is because your muscle memory prevents you from learning how to use kb+mouse.

The risk of it not working? The risk of it getting cancelled at a random time after install? Sure, you might be able to get a refund eventually, after you spend a bunch more time.

Been doing it for years and nothing got cancelled.

But I guess since you assume the time to assemble the computer is also free, that you place no value on time.

I'm not going to get deep into the dynamics of how a PC works as I could spend pages on it. Fact is no console that charged $500 or more has done well in sales until the price was dropped, like an Xbox Series X Slim. In the Xbox One's case it never recovered and spends its entire life cycle in the shadow of the PS4. It was so bad for Xbox One that exclusive games had to be ported to PC so developers could get paid, because apparently the PC is a more reliable platform for income than the Xbox One.

Fact is in December 2019 you can build the equivalent of a Xbox Series X for ~$700. Make it ~$870, who cares, the point is these consoles will be dated by the time they launch and the prices can't be high. $500 and you delay mass adoption for 2-3 years. Make it $600 and they might as well be the next 3DO. Consoles are meant to be a cheap alternative to PC gaming, not an expensive alternative. By December of 2020 the RTX 3060 will have been released, Intel's GPU would have long been out, and AMD will have Zen3 out near the end of 2020. Honestly I don't have much faith that AMD will have something cheap with Ray-Tracing in 2020.

[Temp name]

"The same" RTX 2060 is literally comparable to the weakest Vega on the market that is closer to the Xbox One X GPU then it is to next gen systems. It's a GPU targeted at people playing below 4k.

But didn't the specs for the series x get leaked and it's a 12 TFLOP gpu in it? The 2060 is a 12TFLOP gpu, so they're the same from everything we know so far.

[Remilia]

But didn't the specs for the series x get leaked and it's a 12 TFLOP gpu in it? The 2060 is a 12TFLOP gpu, so they're the same from everything we know so far.

You're quoting the 16bit/half precision number. Single precision is half that, so 6TFLOP.


Anyways... out of town, tired and some leniency due to the nature of hardware topic... but this is overboard and get back to talking about the new Xbox and not this circle jerk of PC v Console or this gets closed.

[RobertMugabe]

If they can maintain the 500$ price tag (incl. the controller) then this device will basically become a more affordable gaming pc, especially with the recent addition of mouse/keyboard as input devices.

[Vash The Stampede]

You're quoting the 16bit/half precision number. Single precision is half that, so 6TFLOP.

Was the leak based on fp32? I know the Vega 64 can do 12 Tflops but a GTX 1080 can do 8.873 TFLOPS, again all in fp32. In most benchmarks the GTX 1080 is faster than a Vega 64, so tflops aren't the be all end all in performance. We could say the Xbox Series X has the equivalent of a Vega 64 with Ray-Tracing capability, assuming all rumors are true. But if the Xbox Series X has 16GB of GDDR6 with a 256-bit bus then there won't be enough bandwidth to feed the Zen2 CPU and the Navi GPU in the console.