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  1. #541
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    No you are confusing Warmode with sharding, despite the contrary, these are totally separate mechanisms that can work without each other.
    No, I don’t confuse anything with anything, shards are automatics, and not about that at all, although from the point of view of origin (ideologically not technically) these methods as a whole are kind of from same area, so... I have no idea where you got this.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Oh yes you do, because warmode is nothing else than switching between PvP and PvE server with better WQ rewards. Also enabling you pvp talents in pve.

    Purpose was just that, to remove artificial barrier and help people who were stuck on specific type of server because most of their friends were playing on type of server that did not align with their interests.

    Because in long run, it doesn't make sense to segregate people by server.
    You aren't person with whom it's interesting to talk, you don't make any arguments or even logical points (I have nothing to cling to, except that you continue to not understand "difference (barrier was necessary due to various conditions for gameplay formation)" (but I have nothing more to add on this issue, especially to you). I have no any base, so reason, to even argue with you (semantically, I would call it rather "flood").

    You're wrong, that's all.

    ps. so answer will be same as yours here *shrugs* call me when you come up with something more interesting
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-12-20 at 08:39 AM.
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  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    No, I don’t confuse anything with anything, shards are automatics, and not about that at all, although from the point of view of origin (ideologically not technically) these methods as a whole kind of from same area, so... I have no idea where you got this.
    Oh yes you do, because warmode is nothing else than switching between PvP and PvE server with better WQ rewards. Also enabling you pvp talents in pve.

    Purpose was just that, to remove artificial barrier and help people who were stuck on specific type of server because most of their friends were playing on type of server that did not align with their interests.

    Because in long run, it doesn't make sense to segregate people by server.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Think real hard about what you just said. "Compensate for potential time loss due to encounter opposing faction players".

    Isn't the entire point of PVP servers or War Mode to encounter opposing faction players and FIGHT them? How is it lost time if that's the whole reason for even being there?

    Do you see? The entire premise of War Mode having a PVE reward incentive is jacked. Wrong. Bad. War Mode shouldn't have ANYTHING other than PVP rewards, if for some reason just being able to fight other players isn't the reward itself.
    I'm looking at this from a little bit different angle. IMO Warmode was designed for people who enjoy wPvP in one way or another. But the same people might also want to be competitive in PvE, so Blizzard tried to solve this the best possible way - provide a compensation for time lost compared to PvE. And I don't mind that initial 10% - since both PvP and PvE crowd ended up with pretty much the same results:time spent ratio.

    Having everything else added on top of that just proves that WM is not viable

  4. #544
    I said this in a earlier response to this thread... but when I turned on warmode, it was on my rogue to pick on low level players. That was it. Soon as I got any opposition, I turned it off and stealthed/flied away.

    People complaining about how flying ruined world PvP simply means they can't gank people anymore.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    Flying was a mistake but now they cant remove it
    No it wasn't lol

  6. #546
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    i'm pretty sure that at least 1502 thread talked about how wpvp is dead since vanilla and introduction to bgs
    i never played pre-bg era, but 'wpvp is dead' is something i hear about since vanilla, literally, and each has his/her own view about how to fix it
    And I still hate current warmode, i prefer the older pvp vs pve servers, and i was on pvp server too

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    Flying was a mistake but now they cant remove it
    if only the best 3 exps in entire game didn't have flying from start unlocked, i wonder what does that mean (tbc/wrath/mop)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StPaul View Post
    I'm looking at this from a little bit different angle. IMO Warmode was designed for people who enjoy wPvP in one way or another. But the same people might also want to be competitive in PvE, so Blizzard tried to solve this the best possible way - provide a compensation for time lost compared to PvE. And I don't mind that initial 10% - since both PvP and PvE crowd ended up with pretty much the same results:time spent ratio.

    Having everything else added on top of that just proves that WM is not viable
    they should remove any reward for turn pvp
    yeah the number of ppl who turn pvp on will drop, but that's the point, u should pvp for loving pvp, not for getting more gold and exp and rep
    and i'll admit i may turn it off on some alts, but overall since i love pvp i know i won't turn it off, even while lvling
    hence why i prefer the older pvp vs pve servers
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  7. #547
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post

    if only the best 3 exps in entire game didn't have flying from start unlocked, i wonder what does that mean (tbc/wrath/mop)
    Except they were as soon as you reached max level, or hit Storm peaks in Wrath.

  8. #548
    how about ion hazzikostas ruined flying

  9. #549
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Just shut up and buy the net gun. Then have super fun shooting people down.

  10. #550
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Blizzbot detected.

    Low post count, no actual backup argument or evidence provided. Blindly repeating something that's completely unfounded.
    but he is right, flying make u finish content faster
    hence why in older times they actually made more content instead of the smack-a-mole system we have now, wrath content is very diverse and unique, same for tbc ( I know a lot of experimentation in early days) and so in mop
    because the game was designed from start with flying
    now it is far cheaper to not allow flying and make smaller content, heck i remember in wod blizz said that they did NOT finish all game 3d models to be viewable from air hence why there was no fly from start (yes they said that, and the reaction was as u guess), they retracted it later, but it does give sense why flying was out only in last patch, let's make an unfinished product and ship it out and we can finish it later after idiots (well Bobby never said we are idiots, but he strongly hinted about it, that we gamers will pay anything for a game) already payed and fell in their trap
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  11. #551
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    Except they were as soon as you reached max level, or hit Storm peaks in Wrath.
    Errr he said flying from the start. And cheap flying in tbc was slow as shit, slower than ground mount.

  12. #552
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    Except they were as soon as you reached max level, or hit Storm peaks in Wrath.
    -.- flying was available from day one, u only need to get gold + lvl for that said exp
    if u get to lvl 70 in day 1 and happen to also have gold, u'll fly in day one
    that what i meant that available from day 1, that it is up to u - player - to unlock it according to ur own progress speed, not timegated behind patched by blizzard
    and the more important point here the 3 best exps all had flying part of them, instead of the sh8t we have now
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  13. #553
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    -.- flying was available from day one, u only need to get gold + lvl for that said exp
    if u get to lvl 70 in day 1 and happen to also have gold, u'll fly in day one
    that what i meant that available from day 1, that it is up to u - player - to unlock it according to ur own progress speed, not timegated behind patched by blizzard
    and the more important point here the 3 best exps all had flying part of them, instead of the sh8t we have now
    Ooh, my bad. I totally misread your post. My apologies.

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by StPaul View Post
    I'm looking at this from a little bit different angle. IMO Warmode was designed for people who enjoy wPvP in one way or another. But the same people might also want to be competitive in PvE, so Blizzard tried to solve this the best possible way - provide a compensation for time lost compared to PvE. And I don't mind that initial 10% - since both PvP and PvE crowd ended up with pretty much the same results:time spent ratio.

    Having everything else added on top of that just proves that WM is not viable
    True, if BfA proved anything, it's that most people don't do WorldPvP for fun, you have to lure them in with bonuses to pretty much everything that matters (Extra talents, WQ rewards, and the extra gank-bait bonus for whichever side *cough*alliance*cough* is outnumbered), i'm sure a bunch of people enjoy worldPvP, but since it has to be propped up with all these bonuses, WorldPvP just isn't viable on its own.

    And now people have flying, so they can have the bonus without as much of the burden, and worldPvP is sagging in again, that proves it: People want the bonus, but not the PvP, let's hope Blizz takes notice of this.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    What more damning evidence do you want? PVP is noticeably better in wod legion bfa before flying is enabled.

    you keep convincing yourself of that it's not even related. The very fact that you say flying has nothing to do with the state of wpvp means you are frightened that flying gets removed. This is like trying to argue that the earth is not flat. tons of evidence but you choose they are "weak arguments" based on your feelings.

    At the end of the day, you choose convenience over everything else. That is the truth that you don't want to admit.
    I don't dispute that wpvp is more active earlier in an expansion. What I dispute is the notion that flight is to blame. We've had this conversation before.

    PVP will happen when and where there are reasons for people to gather. We see this every time there's a new content drop and a spike of activity is spurred bu new reasons for players to get out in the world and interact with each other. But the older that content gets, the less reason players have to physically go there, thus meaning the pool of potential PVP participants drops.

    This same effect can be seen in any form of older content. Try finding a raid group thats actively still progressing through raids released before Nazjatar and the catch up gear.

    You're correlating that effect with flight because you have a bias. You so badly want to believe it's at fault because some player on a flying mount got away from you. And so you extend that concept to what you feel is a natural conclusion:

    "1 player escaped because of flying -> all players with flying can more easily eacape -> Therefore flying is bad for pvp."

    It sounds good, right? Rolls right off the fingers when you're typing. But it only works if you ignore every other factor besides what you personally see.

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    I tried to be logical with you but it seems like you don’t get it.
    Maybe this will help you.

    Welcome to physics 101.
    Let’s assume that we have 300 alliance and 300 horde voldun. Now assuming flying is disabled. Let’s say that chances of random pvp encounters is 100 per hour (doesn’t matter how much).

    Based on the assumption above, if flying was enabled, what would the the number of pvp encounters be?

    A. Less than 100.
    B. More than 100.
    C. Equal to 100.
    D. All of the above.

    I believe in you! You can do it!
    E. Totally fucking random because you cannot predict what people will do. You assume that flying is the thing keeping people from pvping. It's not. People can run away just as easily on ground mount. They can hearth. Flying is ONE of many ways to escape.

    You are plugging your ears and yelling and ignoring anything anyone says.

    Also, in the thread YOU created about this same topic you said "you can't have the cake & eat it too. Those people can go screw themselves." Why should anyone assume you are here to argue the case against flying in war mode in good faith?

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    I tried to be logical with you but it seems like you don’t get it.
    Maybe this will help you.

    Welcome to physics 101.
    Let’s assume that we have 300 alliance and 300 horde voldun. Now assuming flying is disabled. Let’s say that chances of random pvp encounters is 100 per hour (doesn’t matter how much).

    Based on the assumption above, if flying was enabled, what would the the number of pvp encounters be?

    A. Less than 100.
    B. More than 100.
    C. Equal to 100.
    D. All of the above.

    I believe in you! You can do it!

    Yes, you're using logic. The problem is that you're using logic badly, and ignoring all the logic that doesn't match your bias. And you're over-simplifying on top of that.

    Why are those players there? What are their goals? How long have they been there? Are there raid groups? Are they doing WQs? Are they after a world boss?

    Your made up scenario is clearly meant to be based on the idea that every single person on both sides is there specifically to fight. The funniest part is that if they actually all were there to fight, they'd fly to a hotspot, land, and start fighting.

    But in reality there wouldn't even be that many people in Voldun because they'd all have moved on to Mechagon or Nazjatar(where there would be fighting, WITH flying involved), or more likely not in open world zones at all because they'd already completed everything they wanted to do a month ago.

    Watch what happens in 8.3 when there's new content available. Players will fight each other. PVP will happen often, despite the anti-air worms. This will happen because there will be new things to interest players, giving them a reason to congregate. It will happen regardless of flying. Chances are good it will happen more often BECAUSE of flying, as it lets players reach the action more quickly.

  18. #558
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Let's hope Blizz takes notice of this.
    I very much doubt it, they are doubling down on WM bonuses in 8.3
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
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    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    You are dodging. Badly! I gave you a scenario. And you refuse to admit that flying ruined wpvp.
    Bro...anyone can come up with a horse shit scenario.
    And of course I'm refusing to admit that flying ruined WPVP, because it didn't. I've explained why in very clear and logical terms, accounting for all the factors.

    At this point you're just refusing to acknowledge anyone who doesn't agree with you. You're sticking your head further and further into the sand. I don't know how else to tell you this(because I've tried giving you as much information as possible so you can form a better opinion), but you're just wrong about this. And now you're just being petulant about it, or you're blatantly trolling instead of changing your views. Either one is equally bad.

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    I tried to be logical with you but it seems like you don’t get it.
    Maybe this will help you.

    Welcome to physics 101.
    Let’s assume that we have 300 alliance and 300 horde voldun. Now assuming flying is disabled. Let’s say that chances of random pvp encounters is 100 per hour (doesn’t matter how much).

    Based on the assumption above, if flying was enabled, what would the the number of pvp encounters be?

    A. Less than 100.
    B. More than 100.
    C. Equal to 100.
    D. All of the above.

    I believe in you! You can do it!
    That's not how physics works mate. You are flat out ignoring countless outcomes and zoning in on your own agenda. Firstly your very argument is flawed because assuming isn't going to be correct. The very nature of WOW is is random.

    But lets ASSUME there is.

    The answer is D, because it could literally be any.

    A. Less that 100 - because people are flying by missing each other and no one is PVPing
    B. More than 100 - because there is a hot point where people battle and everyone flies there, there are smaller battles within voldun and its quicker to fly there etc.
    C. Equal to 100 ..... cause its equal.

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