Flying ruined warmode

[Alkizon]

I don't think you get to just say that EVE(the single best, longest lasting, and most successful version of PVP in an MMO format) is a bad example and have it credited as a worthy statement. If you can't even recognize the depth and value of EVE as a PVP game, I'm not sure the rest of your points or opinions on the subject really have any merit. o_O

Bad example of something made "around PvP"...

Because game wasn't made around PvP, it was made around certain idea (ideologically/theoretically, “lore wise” is somewhat inappropriate to say here, although I really want to; there is world, there're rules for functioning and interaction with world and all its participants, regardless of whether this is players, or some its own automated elements), but not certain part of gameplay. They adhered to this idea without taking into account how players will behave in one case or another, all that they cared about in this case was that game won't go beyond scope of this idea and design being holistic. You don’t have to participate in PvP there, game isn't about it, it remains a matter of personal choice:

it's just how people make it work, not how devs designed it to be, it have economic/craft concept

But this game is good example of that you can organize open world with active PvP elements without taking into account "competitive" (E-sport "balance" type) idea.

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E-sports is a newcomer to the scene, and a VERY specific subset of PVP.

And you keep saying that EVE isn't made around PVP, but the ENTIRE concept of the game is founded on it. I really don't think you've played enough of it, or studied it enough to be qualified to say that it's not. You really need to do your research on it before making such statements.

For first, try to explain it to Blizzard, and for second, you seem to be very one-sided and narrowly perceive idiological game concept (if you understand it at all). Mechanics aren't everything, mechanics are means and methods, and idea is goal and result, is design's arbiter. Game consisting of mechanics only... hmmm, well this mostly of what is WoW now, does it work?

I'd like to insert another quote with very funny system's description as a whole (it will be very much "to the subject" here):

Verbal visualization:
Imagine game as large complex robot, system of which can't be remade (these are game engine). All you can do about balance is Control Unit. Control Unit consists of 2 parts (with pinch-bars): 1) general (parameters and characteristics); 2) special (fine tuning for each individual subsystem); 3) they are interdependent. Since it's not possible to change system itself - for convenience, you can add pinch-bars, BUT with each removal of basic ones (which as you know are part of related system) problems will start to experience. What is now is a completely broken panel: 1) there are almost no pinch-bars on general part (strong arms, weak mind), there are electricity spark or RNG placed in place of broken ones; 2) special ones also suffered badly and they are so split that any change leads only to robot's squeal and helpless manipulators swings; 3) now they are trying to break dependencies, as a result of which system will stop working as a single unit (it has long been not working properly, but it'll be even worse).

[deadman1]

Warmode ruined flying

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Flying was a mistake but now they cant remove it

They could disable it for warmode. But flying is an amazing addition to the game. not having to traverse garbage terrain just to get to a quest is great.

[SirCowdog]

Bad example of something made "around PvP"...

Because game wasn't made around PvP, it was made around certain idea (ideologically/theoretically, “lore vice” is somewhat inappropriate to say here, although I really want to; there is world, there're rules for functioning and interaction with world and all its participants, regardless of whether this is players, or some its own automated elements), but not certain part of gameplay. They adhered to this idea without taking into account how players will behave in one case or another, all that they cared about in this case was that game won't go beyond scope of this idea and design being holistic. You don’t have to participate in PvP there, game isn't about it, it remains a matter of personal choice:

But this game is good example of that you can organize open world with active PvP elements without taking into account "competitive" (E-sport type) idea.

E-sports is a newcomer to the scene, and a VERY specific subset of PVP.

And you keep saying that EVE isn't made around PVP, but the ENTIRE concept of the game is founded on it. I really don't think you've played enough of it, or studied it enough to be qualified to say that it's not. You really need to do your research on it before making such statements.

[MasterOfNone]

That's your problem. You assume everyone is like you and does the same type of content as you. Many people enjoy ffa pvp every now & then and flying is a major reason for killing it.

Don't insult my intelligence by saying flying has nothing to do with it.

no, its not. you claim you have intelligence, but clearly not enough to realize what actually happened when flying came out. you cannot claim intelligence if you sit back hand waving thinking that the majoirty of wow some how is upset with flying. its just not true. you cannot claim intelligence if you think the majority of wow gives two shits about WM with flying. just because you and your little hurt feelers buddy are mad cause you cant grief people flying means jack shit to almost everyone in this thread. read the responses.

one last time for you, since you are so "intelligent". BFA was dead AF when flying came out. thats a big reason you dont see as many people to pvp with. seems logical to someone with intelligence, but i guess for you we will make an exception and spell it out further. also, classic dropped around the same time as flying further escelating the lack of people in retail. if you had a modicum of common sense you would understand that all facets of the game (INCLUDING WPVP) suffer with less people in the game. get off your high horse about being smart kid, cause clearly, you arent it.....

[Orby]

Flying killed PVP back in TBC... this isnt a new woe unfortunately.

I stand my my sentiment I made back in TBC, flying shouldn't be a part of an MMO, I have stood by that statement and by god I stand by it now, 13 years later and it;s engraved into my soul, in other words I have become too suborn to accept any rebuttal lol. #

But we're here now and we can't turn back, so we gotta make do.

[Redhell]

That's your problem. You assume everyone is like you and does the same type of content as you. Many people enjoy ffa pvp every now & then and flying is a major reason for killing it.

Don't insult my intelligence by saying flying has nothing to do with it.

Imagine being so unbelievably dense that the word "ironic" means nothing to you.

How can someone assume that wPvP even consists of a somewhat large minority of the game when PvP, overall, has been dying since the end of WoD? How can someone assume that wPvP is something a relatively significant number of people enjoy while at the same time hating flying when the WM incentive is constantly high for one faction?

You're so delusional, I can't even begin to understand your thought process. Does 2+2=4 to you anymore? Or does it equal 5 because you want it to?

[MasterOfNone]

Imagine being so unbelievably dense that the word "ironic" means nothing to you.

How can someone assume that wPvP even consists of a somewhat large minority of the game when PvP, overall, has been dying since the end of WoD? How can someone assume that wPvP is something a relatively significant number of people enjoy while at the same time hating flying when the WM incentive is constantly high for one faction?

You're so delusional, I can't even begin to understand your thought process. Does 2+2=4 to you anymore? Or does it equal 5 because you want it to?

careful....hes "INTELLIGENT"...

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Flying killed PVP back in TBC... this isnt a new woe unfortunately.

I stand my my sentiment I made back in TBC, flying shouldn't be a part of an MMO, I have stood by that statement and by god I stand by it now, 13 years later and it;s engraved into my soul, in other words I have become too suborn to accept any rebuttal lol. #

But we're here now and we can't turn back, so we gotta make do.

did it? explain all the epic world pvp battles in hellfire penn with flying......wrath (with flying) saw the best subs this game has ever seen. im working off of actual truths here. you are working off opinion....

[Vilendor]

Flying killed PVP back in TBC... this isnt a new woe unfortunately.

I stand my my sentiment I made back in TBC, flying shouldn't be a part of an MMO, I have stood by that statement and by god I stand by it now, 13 years later and it;s engraved into my soul, in other words I have become too suborn to accept any rebuttal lol. #

But we're here now and we can't turn back, so we gotta make do.

PvP was at its peak in TBC
You can argue that it killed wpvp, but in reality it never existed. Wpvp is just ganking renamed by pathetic loosers who enjoy killing low levels, players at low hp, players while they fight mobs etc. That's not "PvP" and never was.

[Aucald]

This thread needs to settle down. Discuss your opinions and positions civilly and constructively, without sniping at one another or casting aspersions at people you disagree with.

[Beazy]

LoL another person that thinks flying killed PvP.

Thats so fucking adorable. /cheekpinch

[Jazzhands]

because flying kills wpvp. PERIOD.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I manage 25 kills (For Against Overwhelming Odds) in 20-30 mins, even at weird hours and late in the week, when wpvp is so dead. Sounds like you just refuse to go to where the wPVP is happening, and expect it to be everywhere all at once, but that's not how this game works, certain zones become more or less obsolete as new zones release.

[tehdef]

So let me preface this with, I detest PvP. It's generally just people ganking, and they usually have something superior to the person they attacked. That said, Warmode brought with it something that I have longed for, solace in the world when I want to PvE.

Warmode also comes with specific perks. If you enable Warmode and do world quests, they reward more overall. I think that flying while war mode is up, removes a large amount of risk in the navigation portion. That period of moving from 1 objective to the next actually increased your likelihood of being killed in transit. That however is no longer the case, and in some situations the quests can be completed rapidly, allowing the gain of bonus rewards, with no risk of being killed by another player before, or after the quest.

So, from the perspective of "Warmode was designed to provide more rewards to incentivize war mode and player conflict, but that intent is being bypassed with flying, but the rewards achieved stay as if you were participating in actual pvp." I think is a fair argument to make.

[MasterOfNone]

I think you are the dense one here & intolerant for refusing to believe that some people are into wpvp.



because flying kills wpvp. PERIOD.


No need for insults, you called me dense & delusional. You refuse to understand that flying killed many things we enjoy in this game. 1 of them is wpvp.

It no longer looks like this conversation is gonna last. So here is a piece of advice. Never ever make these kind of dumb assumptions. I don't play PVP so that means no 1 plays pvp anymore.

I wonder who really understand if 1+1=2. me or you.

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while organized PVP flourished in TBC. Flying certainly killed wpvp in TBC. TBC felt soo empty until they released Sunwell (which was a lot of fun pve & pvp due to us stuck on the ground).

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No need for insults.

Claiming that flying didn't kill wpvp is like claiming the earth is flat.

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You mean first day hellfire penn was certainly fun. but then it died as soon as everyone obtained their flying mounts.

you are delusional. i didnt join tbc till almost the end and there were still epic battles going on.
could u stop being ridiculous for one second? is that possible? flying didnt ruin a system that was terrible from the go. there is no way to quantify it. you are just being difficult to be difficult it makes ZERO sense. you have not countered one point that has been made about other things that caused a drop in wpvp. you just return fire with nonsense. i cant keep replying to someone being so obtuse for no reason. good day.

[Jazzhands]

I still pvp & wpvp to this day. I just know the difference because I notice it. let me explain to you how physics works (I'm not trying to insult you but you might have failed physics)

Let's assume there is 300 alliance & 300 horde in drustuvar. let's make a random counter on how many times a people will clash in wpvp. let's say 500 wpvp encounters per hour.

good? ok. next part is hard, but try to focus & you will get.

Now, let's take those 300 alliance & 300 horde to drustavar with flying enabled. What do you think the number of encounters will be. I will even give you choices to make it easier for you:
A. less than 500.
B. More than 500.
C. Equal to 500.
D. All of the above.

I believe in you! You can do it!

I can't take this thread seriously due to the sheer amount of people frightened of flying being removed.

Less overall interactions doesn't mean it's dead. Dead means there's none of it happening ever. This is the problem I have with most wPVP fanatics like yourself, you're all drastically overstating how wPVP is right now. It's no where near dead, which means flying didn't kill it. Does it happen as much as it use to? No, but it's not dead, you can still find people to fight pretty much any time.

Wpvp will pretty much always be neglected though, I'm amazed Blizzard even added the net. It's a shit activity that a very tiny minority enjoy (just look at how many people left PVP servers when Warmode hit), you likely won't be getting any Dev time anytime soon, so you may as well suck it up and take what you can get.

[Redhell]

I think you are the dense one here & intolerant for refusing to believe that some people are into wpvp.

Thank you for proving my point. You've spoken here, and in your other thread on the same topic, with absolute certainty that a sizeable amount of people, maybe even enough to rival a majority, participate in wPvP because they genuinely enjoy it. All I've said is players like you who seem to care so much about said aspect of the game are in a vast minority because PvP, in general, has seen it's numbers decrease significantly since the end of WoD. What you're saying has no basis in reality and only exists in the foggy bubble you're choosing to live in. The rest of us aren't so blind.

because flying kills wpvp. PERIOD.

No, flying makes it harder for people like you who think wPvP=flagrant ganking much more difficult. People who actually want to wPvP do so. I know that might seem hard to understand, but the people who do want to wPvP tend to PvP. I don't know what faction you play, but if you're Horde complaining about Alliance players who don't want to wPvP in WM, then be mad at the massive faction imbalance and the WM buff. Neither of which have anything to do with flying. If you're Alliance, then understand that some Horde players literally forget the WM buff is on as it's been on since 8.0. Again, nothing about that has anything to do with flying.

No need for insults, you called me dense & delusional. You refuse to understand that flying killed many things we enjoy in this game. 1 of them is wpvp.

It no longer looks like this conversation is gonna last. So here is a piece of advice. Never ever make these kind of dumb assumptions. I don't play PVP so that means no 1 plays pvp anymore.

I wonder who really understand if 1+1=2. me or you.

Quote where I said no one PvPs anymore. Quote it. Here's a hint: you won't find it. The aspect is dying, and I gave you numbers to show it. Never said it was dead. You're also, again, failing to understand what the word "ironic" means because you told me not to assume things while assuming I don't PvP. As an Alliance member, I walk around with WM on all the time. I do all the CTAs on my main and alts weekly. I am about 20k honor away from my level 4 essence and about 10 crates away from that level 4 essence. How do you spend your time? Walking around in Emissary and BG gear "ganking" people? Please. I actually play the game, and guess what? Flying is incredibly useful to the rest of the game. Flying has its issues, yes, but you know what issue will never cause it to get real attention? This one. Why? Because it doesn't affect enough of the player base. It doesn't even scratch the surface. Dense is what I say when someone doesn't understand irony. Delusional is what I say when someone can't see out of their bubble. You fill both categories.

I said this yesterday, but most of us would love to have a real, fruitful conversation about flying and the effects it has had on the entire game. With people like you leading the charge, however, especially through this silly topic, that conversation can't happen. Objectivity is needed, and you lack it immensely.

[Jazzhands]

It's merely an opinion of mine or rather a fact. I didn't cry for flying to be removed in WMON

Wpvp being dead can be your opinion, but it's one of those rare cases where your opinion is basically wrong. Opinions can't really be wrong, but in this matter it pretty much is, because Wpvp isn't dead, or even dying, it's just not as active because people can avoid the shittier situations that occur and, well, most situations in Wpvp are shitty for one side.

Wpvp is one of those things thats fun at first, but most people eventually realize that 95% of the time it isn't, because you either get jumped when you're low on HP/fighting mobs or just rolled over by groups you have no chance of fighting against. It can be fun to be on the winning side of this, but even that gets old for most people because it's boring compared to actual pvp like Arena or RBGs, the only people it remains fun for for long periods of time are people who can't compete in these venues and get bruised egos from losing all the time, and thus turn to Wpvp for easy kills to soothe their ego. This is merely my opinion, or rather a fact and is therefore indisputable because I say so.

[Jazzhands]

If you can't handle wpvp, turn off warmode. Don't dictate what people can or can't do in WMon. The very fact that we have a warmode (pvp realms too) means that people are interested in a good outdoor fight every now & then.

I do keep it off, because it's a shit activity. The only time I use it is to get 25 kills for the first few weeks on a fresh 120, which again takes on average 20-30 mins, about a kill a minute, meaning that even with flying, Warmode is no where near dead.

[Soon-TM]

Flying certainly killed wpvp in TBC.

Lolno. I experienced a lot of world PvP back in BC, even during the late stages. The towers in Hellfire were always heavily contested, and you were constantly going there to help guildies/friends being harassed by dem pesky Allies - there was a popular joke by then that HFP terrain was red because of all the mass slaughters taking place there on a daily basis lmao. Ditto (to a lesser extent) for those "shrines" in Terokkar or Zangarmarsh. No bud, world PvP was alive and well in BC, and it wasn't confined to Quel'danas, not by a long shot.

[Redhell]

Case closed. thank you for agreeing with me.

That's not wPvP, that's you being a d!ck. I'm sorry if this is news to you.

You are like a hamster i'm chasing. I'm not gonna let you off the hook.
You said Pvp is dead. don't try to twist your words into different meaning.

Where? Quote it. Please go find the quote.

Imagine being convinced something is real when factual information to the contrary is right in front of you. In the words of my sig, "Bulb's a bit dim, eh?"

[Vinzora]

one last time for you, since you are so "intelligent". BFA was dead AF when flying came out. thats a big reason you dont see as many people to pvp with. seems logical to someone with intelligence, but i guess for you we will make an exception and spell it out further. also, classic dropped around the same time as flying further escelating the lack of people in retail. if you had a modicum of common sense you would understand that all facets of the game (INCLUDING WPVP) suffer with less people in the game. get off your high horse about being smart kid, cause clearly, you arent it.....

Sharding means dead warmode has nothing to do with total population. Lacking intelligence? It appears that the pot is calling the kettle black.