Clothies: Are we anywhere near close to Medivh/Ner'zhul/Gul'dan in terms of power?

[Dark Succ]

Clothies did many wild shit and defeated a lot of strong motherfuckers in the past. They scale harder than anyone else lorewise. So, have we gotten anywhere near the power of Medivh/Gul'dan/Ner'zhul with his BiS items?

[CrawlFromThePit]

Mages/Locks did many wild shit and defeated a lot of strong motherfuckers in the past. So, have we gotten anywhere near the power of Medivh/Gul'dan/Ner'zhul with his BiS items?

Hard to tell, some NPCs call us hero and stuff, but we still need to be 20+ to beat one dude who previously fucked us up real good like a dozen times.

Also we still can't tank shit like they do so I would say definitely not.

[Yamuri]

Power scale feels the same to me every expansion. I don't feel like my character has progressed any further other than numbers. I don't have any world ending skills, I can't open a permanent portal, I can't cause a blizzard across a large zone.

In terms of lore and game content, they'll never be equal.

[Biomega]

Those casters all had the power to affect things at a massive scale. Players will never be able to. All they do is small stuff. Individual players will never get to blow up a planet or create a massive, sustained interplanetary portal, or things of that nature.

[AcidicSyn]

I'm guessing Ner'zhul is the comp for priests?

Either way, Ner'zhul - Yes. Definitely and both versions.

Gul'Dan - Yes. Definitely. His power comes from his minions and support from Sargaeras; the nanosecond Sargeras abandons him he crumples up like paper. PC Warlocks have a demonic planet at their disposal (or did you guys lose that too when you sacrificed your weapons?).

Medivh - Nope. Though it depends on how the comparison is made and what version. I believe the player mage is more powerful than Medivh was when Lother & Co put him down during the first war. I do not however believe that the PC mage is more powerful than his WC3 and onward incarnation. However, I also think possessing Karazahn plays a role in the equation. I'm still not sure the PC mage would be more powerful than Medivh even with Kara though. Maybe more than Khadgar (as his power comes predominantly from his knowledge, wisdom, and experience), not more than Jaina though (who is shown/written as having more raw power/talent than anything else).


EDIT: Obviously I'm talking in terms of story and lore; ignoring constraints placed on player power due to game mechanics entirely.

[derpkitteh]

we probably surpassed ner'zhul in legion.

maybe similar to MU gul'dan, but AU gul'dan was some rough shit. the legion really empowered him.

medivh is beyond us though, as is khadgar(which is strange, since he needs us to save him more than once in legion). i'm annoyed they buffed jaina so much, so that she's now above us, but whatever i guess.

this is why i like swtor. my dick is the biggest in the galaxy, and i get to flaunt that every now and then.

[Nefarious Tea]

I'm guessing Ner'zhul is the comp for priests?

Either way, Ner'zhul - Yes. Definitely and both versions.

Gul'Dan - Yes. Definitely. His power comes from his minions and support from Sargaeras; the nanosecond Sargeras abandons him he crumples up like paper. PC Warlocks have a demonic planet at their disposal (or did you guys lose that too when you sacrificed your weapons?).

Medivh - Nope. Though it depends on how the comparison is made and what version. I believe the player mage is more powerful than Medivh was when Lother & Co put him down during the first war. I do not however believe that the PC mage is more powerful than his WC3 and onward incarnation. However, I also think possessing Karazahn plays a role in the equation. I'm still not sure the PC mage would be more powerful than Medivh even with Kara though. Maybe more than Khadgar (as his power comes predominantly from his knowledge, wisdom, and experience), not more than Jaina though (who is shown/written as having more raw power/talent than anything else).


EDIT: Obviously I'm talking in terms of story and lore; ignoring constraints placed on player power due to game mechanics entirely.

The thing with Medivh (and Khadgar) is that as guardian of Tirisfal they have roughly the same raw power and magical skill as the rest of the Kirin Tor combined, because the guardians power comes from the combined might of the council of six. So as a player mage you’re probably far below either. I’d guess somewhere up there with post-cata Kalecgos, or Modera; you’re an archmage powerful enough to rival one of the council but not exactly unusual for a mortal - if rare.

Medivh, Azshara, or even Jaina would probably still wipe the floor with the player mage. Not that there’s a lot of explanation for how unusually powerful Jaina is, though.

[Daronokk]

we probably surpassed ner'zhul in legion.

maybe similar to MU gul'dan, but AU gul'dan was some rough shit. the legion really empowered him.

medivh is beyond us though, as is khadgar(which is strange, since he needs us to save him more than once in legion). i'm annoyed they buffed jaina so much, so that she's now above us, but whatever i guess.

this is why i like swtor. my dick is the biggest in the galaxy, and i get to flaunt that every now and then.

I mostly agree with you.

Though I'd say it's difficult to really determine Ner'zhul's power, since his biggest feat comes from using magical artifacts or objects of power. Which funnily enough makes him equal to us player characters as we also rely on our loot.

But still, in Legion Warlocks used the Scepter of Sargeras while Ner'zhul used the Scepter of Sargeras combined with the Spellbook of Medivh. So I'd say Ner'zhul using TWO artifacts compared to us only using ONE still puts him ahead of us.

MU Gul'dan on the other hand was more of a schemer and we probably surpassed him a few expansions ago, but certainly during Legion. AU Gul'dan was a powerhouse indeed, a whole other level.

[Florena]

The thing with Medivh (and Khadgar) is that as guardian of Tirisfal they have roughly the same raw power and magical skill as the rest of the Kirin Tor combined, because the guardians power comes from the combined might of the council of six. So as a player mage you’re probably far below either. I’d guess somewhere up there with post-cata Kalecgos, or Modera; you’re an archmage powerful enough to rival one of the council but not exactly unusual for a mortal - if rare.

Medivh, Azshara, or even Jaina would probably still wipe the floor with the player mage. Not that there’s a lot of explanation for how unusually powerful Jaina is, though.

Khadgar never got that power like Medivh did. He's strong but he's not a 'Guardian of Tirisfal' in the same way.

[AcidicSyn]

The thing with Medivh (and Khadgar) is that as guardian of Tirisfal they have roughly the same raw power and magical skill as the rest of the Kirin Tor combined, because the guardians power comes from the combined might of the council of six. So as a player mage you’re probably far below either. I’d guess somewhere up there with post-cata Kalecgos, or Modera; you’re an archmage powerful enough to rival one of the council but not exactly unusual for a mortal - if rare.

Medivh, Azshara, or even Jaina would probably still wipe the floor with the player mage. Not that there’s a lot of explanation for how unusually powerful Jaina is, though.

True, fair enough. I had forgotten about how the Guardian of Tirisfall acquired their power.

[Oneirophobia]

I think we're all pretty shit. Separately, we are weak, like a single stick, but together we form a MIGHTY ... bundle of sticks!

The only time we had any real power was when we had artifacts, and even then we had to band together in large groups to tackle threats. Still makes us heroes though.

Hopefully the NPCs never figure out how to group and do mechanics, we'll all be out of a job.

- - - Updated - - -

Not that there’s a lot of explanation for how unusually powerful Jaina is, though.

I think she's just a prodigy, is all. Far and above most mages, born with enormous raw talent and lucky enough to have the discipline and guidance to foster it properly and to grow. She was sent to Lordaeron/Dalaran at a young age to study directly under Antonidas because her affinity for magic was obvious even when she was little. I suppose that was remarkable in and of itself, because Kul Tiras isn't necessarily "mage" inclined and they're one of the more autonomous nations.

Sending the ruler's daughter to a foreign nation to develop a skill that isn't really culturally embraced much was probably a huge thing for Kul Tiras at the time. Jaina is no ordinary fish, and everyone knows it. I mean, even Kalec finds her impressive and he's the friggin' aspect of magic.

[Zyky]

In terms of lore and game content, they'll never be equal.

To that same argument though, in lore basically we are on par because the player character gets recognized for defeating several bads like Sargeras, technically from a lore perspective there is only one Heart of Azeroth, we were considered the strongest and with the truest heart to wield the power of our planet herself.

[Nefarious Tea]

I think she's just a prodigy, is all. Far and above most mages, born with enormous raw talent and lucky enough to have the discipline and guidance to foster it properly and to grow. She was sent to Lordaeron/Dalaran at a young age to study directly under Antonidas because her affinity for magic was obvious even when she was little. I suppose that was remarkable in and of itself, because Kul Tiras isn't necessarily "mage" inclined and they're one of the more autonomous nations.

Sending the ruler's daughter to a foreign nation to develop a skill that isn't really culturally embraced much was probably a huge thing for Kul Tiras at the time. Jaina is no ordinary fish, and everyone knows it. I mean, even Kalec finds her impressive and he's the friggin' aspect of magic.

Ahh yeah that’s a good point; stewardship of a royal child by a foreign but allied nation is a common thing in monarchies so Jaina the middle child prodigy mage being sent to Dalaran makes loads of sense, especially if her local magical education wouldn’t be up to snuff.

[Selastan]

Ner'zul and Gul'dan, maybe.

No way in hell is ANYONE strong enough to be in Medivh's league. The Council of Tirisfal was the best of the best, and they put all their magic into one person. This went on for centuries. Medivh is like 6 Khadgars or Jainas, multiplied by however many generations of members the Council had. He is hundreds upon hundreds of player characters in ability.

[Soon-TM]

Ner'zul and Gul'dan, maybe.

No way in hell is ANYONE strong enough to be in Medivh's league. The Council of Tirisfal was the best of the best, and they put all their magic into one person. This went on for centuries. Medivh is like 6 Khadgars or Jainas, multiplied by however many generations of members the Council had. He is hundreds upon hundreds of player characters in ability.

I always find it odd that all of the great spellcasters in Warcraft are always humans, with very little exceptions e.g. Gul'dan or Aszhara. And the latter is pretty much a fraud.

[Wyrt]

I always find it odd that all of the great spellcasters in Warcraft are always humans, with very little exceptions e.g. Gul'dan or Aszhara. And the latter is pretty much a fraud.

It's not odd, the humans have HUMAN POTENTIAL™ which none of the other races have.

[Kyphael]

I always find it odd that all of the great spellcasters in Warcraft are always humans, with very little exceptions e.g. Gul'dan or Aszhara. And the latter is pretty much a fraud.

Good point, which makes me wonder; who's the better spell caster, Medivh or Azshara?

OT: Obviously not, we're not even as strong as Jaina. My mage sure as hell can't conjure up a flying ship that fires mana cannonballs!

[Rozz]

I don't think so. For all we can do, it's a given they can do the same and better. I think they purposefully avoid saying we're stronger than x-character, because it could mess with future expansions and continuity.

[derpkitteh]

Good point, which makes me wonder; who's the better spell caster, Medivh or Azshara?

azshara, because she's always had fel(now shadow) to compliment her already ridiculously powerful spellcasting.

you could argue medivh might have fel, but we don't know what medivh even remembers or knows of fel casting after the separation from sargeras.

[Kyphael]

azshara, because she's always had fel(now shadow) to compliment her already ridiculously powerful spellcasting.

you could argue medivh might have fel, but we don't know what medivh even remembers or knows of fel casting after the separation from sargeras.

Cool, so there we go, the greatest spell caster in history is a night elf, not Medivh.