Clothies: Are we anywhere near close to Medivh/Ner'zhul/Gul'dan in terms of power?

[derpkitteh]

Cool, so there we go, the greatest spell caster in history is a night elf, not Medivh.

i would argue that aegwynn is actually the greatest azerothian spellcaster.

she fought medivh without her guardian powers and it was actually not an easy fight for medivh. medivh had not only the powers of the guardian, but whatever power he got from sargeras' possession as well.

so i think it's like this: aegwynn with guardian power > medivh with sargeras + guardian power > azshara >= aegwynn without guardian power > medivh with guardian power

[Kyphael]

i would argue that aegwynn is actually the greatest azerothian spellcaster.

she fought medivh without her guardian powers and it was actually not an easy fight for medivh. medivh had not only the powers of the guardian, but whatever power he got from sargeras' possession as well.

so i think it's like this: aegwynn with guardian power > medivh with sargeras + guardian power > azshara >= aegwynn without guardian power > medivh with guardian power

Ok, so it's more like buffed by Sargeras, Medivh and Aegwynn are both stronger than Azshara, but NOT buffed, meaning by the limitations of their own skill, Azshara is the best. Which means N'zoth buffed Azshara > Sargeras buffed Medivh and Guardian Aegwynn? wait, being Guardian is its own buff? I thought it was a title.

[derpkitteh]

Ok, so it's more like buffed by Sargeras, Medivh and Aegwynn are both stronger than Azshara, but NOT buffed, meaning by the limitations of their own skill, Azshara is the best. Which means N'zoth buffed Azshara > Sargeras buffed Medivh and Guardian Aegwynn? wait, being Guardian is its own buff? I thought it was a title.

being guardian is being empowered with the power of the strongest council of tirisfal archmages.

it's a buff that's passed on to each new guardian, and the buff is supposed to get stronger with each new guardian(or so i've heard), but didn't seem to be the case with medivh at least, or maybe aegwynn was just that good for some reason.

as for n'zoth buffed azshara, i forgot to take that into account, what kind of power her transformation may have given her. i still don't think guardian aegwynn would lose to her, but it might be closer than i thought.

[Selastan]

being guardian is being empowered with the power of the strongest council of tirisfal archmages.

it's a buff that's passed on to each new guardian, and the buff is supposed to get stronger with each new guardian(or so i've heard), but didn't seem to be the case with medivh at least, or maybe aegwynn was just that good for some reason.

as for n'zoth buffed azshara, i forgot to take that into account, what kind of power her transformation may have given her. i still don't think guardian aegwynn would lose to her, but it might be closer than i thought.

Wasn't Medivh possessed for his fight? It seems like Medivh is drastically weaker with Sargeras in control. There could be a multitude of reasons to why Sargeras couldn't command the Guardian power. Medivh's own soul could have been fighting for control, holding back the vast majority of his power even though he couldn't command his body. Could have been poor reception, the distance between Sargeras and his puppet could have been factor. Could be the nature of fel vs arcane. The two are opposites, chaos and order. It is a possibility that Sargeras is unable to fully control arcane power, due to his mind having been lost to fel.

I think of it like when Ginyu switched bodies with Goku. He should have had control of massive power, but it wasn't the same kind of power Ginyu was used to, so he could barely use it. Judging Medivh's strength based on how he performed against Aegwynn isn't really fair, as it wasn't REALLY him.

[Schattenlied]

i'm annoyed they buffed jaina so much, so that she's now above us, but whatever i guess.

She was called "the most powerful human sorceress alive" all the way back in vanilla, and it would be absurd to assume she wouldn't continue to get stronger as we did...

[derpkitteh]

She was called "the most powerful human sorceress alive" all the way back in vanilla, and it would be absurd to assume she wouldn't continue to get stronger as we did...

that wasn't all the way back in vanilla, and it was specifically said "female human" mage.

- - - Updated - - -

Wasn't Medivh possessed for his fight? It seems like Medivh is drastically weaker with Sargeras in control. There could be a multitude of reasons to why Sargeras couldn't command the Guardian power. Medivh's own soul could have been fighting for control, holding back the vast majority of his power even though he couldn't command his body. Could have been poor reception, the distance between Sargeras and his puppet could have been factor. Could be the nature of fel vs arcane. The two are opposites, chaos and order. It is a possibility that Sargeras is unable to fully control arcane power, due to his mind having been lost to fel.

I think of it like when Ginyu switched bodies with Goku. He should have had control of massive power, but it wasn't the same kind of power Ginyu was used to, so he could barely use it. Judging Medivh's strength based on how he performed against Aegwynn isn't really fair, as it wasn't REALLY him.

didn't seem to be weakened to me.

"When Aegwynn was temporarily incapacitated, Arcanagos joined in. However, despite being a blue dragon, Arcanagos was severely outmatched. Sargeras struck him down, burning him from the inside out until all that was left was bone. Her friend's death sent Aegwynn further into her rage. Sargeras may have had the full weight of a Guardian's power, but she had centuries of experience. Even with Aluneth at her command, Aegwynn could not best the demon-possessed Medivh,[11] but as their duel continued, Aegwynn slowly gained the upper hand.[19] Unable to kill Aegwynn, Medivh instead banished her and hurled her elsewhere. He didn't know where he had sent her, but he could not sense her presence anywhere on Azeroth.[20]"

[Dark Succ]

you could argue medivh might have fel, but we don't know what medivh even remembers or knows of fel casting after the separation from sargeras.

Medivh, Guardian of Trisfal, who wrote the self-titled Book of Medivh, the Holy Grail of Warlocks, not knowing how to fel-cast?

I get where you are coming from, but please.

[derpkitteh]

Medivh, Guardian of Trisfal, who wrote the self-titled Book of Medivh, the Holy Grail of Warlocks, not knowing how to fel-cast?

I get where you are coming from, but please.

he's never been a warlock.

he has always been known as an archmage. he only ever used fel under sargeras' control.

[Vakna]

If the Warrior class hall quest in Legion is anything to go by, we are considered the most powerful mortals in our respective classes on the planet (not counting immortals). This was pre-Artifact weapon too, and we have presumably only grown in power since then.

[Zuben]

We are if the plot allows it. That's how we're sometimes going toe to toe with celebrity characters and either win or at least survive long enough until they freeze us or some shit and bugger off.

[derpkitteh]

If the Warrior class hall quest in Legion is anything to go by, we are considered the most powerful mortals in our respective classes on the planet (not counting immortals). This was pre-Artifact weapon too, and we have presumably only grown in power since then.

we're the most powerful available at the time, at least.

for warlocks, we were simply the most powerful member of the black harvest. i'm still not sure why kanrethad has to siphon his power to remain in control of himself, when we beat him and proved we're stronger than him. guess he's just too novice to control the power he took?

for mages, khadgar is leading the council of six, and the tirigarde are kind of just a branch of dalaran in the first place. so you're pronounced conjuror, while khadgar and the six deal with other issues.

[Selastan]

Sargeras may have had the full weight of a Guardian's power, but she had centuries of experience

See, that is what makes me think that Sargeras couldn't use that power fully. "She had centuries of experience". Experience...over Sargeras? A TITAN who lived for thousands if not millions of years? That makes me think that it was specifically the GUARDIAN power she had experience with.

[derpkitteh]

See, that is what makes me think that Sargeras couldn't use that power fully. "She had centuries of experience". Experience...over Sargeras? A TITAN who lived for thousands if not millions of years? That makes me think that it was specifically the GUARDIAN power she had experience with.

he could probably use the full power, but only in outright destructive capability.

sargeras, even back in his titan days, was never a mage. he likely didn't know even mid-tier arcane spells that a mage uses. aegwynn knew innumerable tricks, rituals, and techniques because that's what she'd spent hundreds of years studying as a mage.

it is somewhat like ginyu in goku's body, but it's like if ginyu had full access to goku's power, yet goku was out maneuvering him with instant transmission, blinding him with solar flare, and trapping him in a jar with the evil containment wave.

[Jeina]

On a scale of none to a couple... how many Dark Portals have you opened?

That'll tell you.

[Mic_128]

azshara, because she's always had fel(now shadow) to compliment her already ridiculously powerful spellcasting.

Azshara has never once used fel, at least prior to becoming a Naga, anyway. In fact, the only time we've ever actually cast a spell was when her tower was sinking/when the section of the city was about to be flooded (Pre and post retcon)

[Khaza-R]

Obviously, no.

I don't see the PC creating fel volcanoes or breaking dams with a single spell.

[derpkitteh]

Azshara has never once used fel, at least prior to becoming a Naga, anyway. In fact, the only time we've ever actually cast a spell was when her tower was sinking/when the section of the city was about to be flooded (Pre and post retcon)

she started to communicate with demons and sargeras. there's no way she wasn't using fel after being so enraptured by sargeras' power.

[Powerogue]

I'd say we were in Legion but got a significant power nerf.

I miss my staff that was powerful enough to rend worlds in twain.

[zlygork]

Hard to tell, some NPCs call us hero and stuff, but we still need to be 20+ to beat one dude who previously fucked us up real good like a dozen times.

Also we still can't tank shit like they do so I would say definitely not.

I am glad to finally see someone acknowledging this. The way that some people speak on this forum, you'd think that soloing a raid 40 levels later is the canon story.

[Yoshingo]

Warlocks were pretty close in Legion, as has been said, but even with the Scepter of Sargeras, they weren't stronger than the strongest magic users. And now they don't have it anymore.