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  1. #1

    Things that are in WoW but not Warcraft/Azeroth.

    So we often get extremely caught up in this idea of our own timelines (15 years in real life) and all the stuff we've done in the game and how it all works out.

    So I was thinking about what's part of the game universe that we make allowances for for the players.

    Things like; there's not actually 1 million Ashbringers out there. There's just the one artifact weapon per spec, per player. For lore purposes they are singular.

    Mass portals, used regularly by everyone. Are not a thing. There's no portal network connecting major cities or points of interest and it only exists for player convenience.

    Travel time of course actually exists and effects the NPCs, with most travel taking place on ships or foot. So like flight paths are a thing in the game but not in the universe. Same with regular use of flying mounts.

    Continental size - this mostly effects the classic kalimdor and eastern kingdoms. Cities are tiny, we can walk places quickly, far more quick than it would take to actually cover the distance to change biomes.

    Anyway, just a few things to keep in mind.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    So we often get extremely caught up in this idea of our own timelines (15 years in real life) and all the stuff we've done in the game and how it all works out.

    So I was thinking about what's part of the game universe that we make allowances for for the players.

    Things like; there's not actually 1 million Ashbringers out there. There's just the one artifact weapon per spec, per player. For lore purposes they are singular.

    Mass portals, used regularly by everyone. Are not a thing. There's no portal network connecting major cities or points of interest and it only exists for player convenience.

    Travel time of course actually exists and effects the NPCs, with most travel taking place on ships or foot. So like flight paths are a thing in the game but not in the universe. Same with regular use of flying mounts.

    Continental size - this mostly effects the classic kalimdor and eastern kingdoms. Cities are tiny, we can walk places quickly, far more quick than it would take to actually cover the distance to change biomes.

    Anyway, just a few things to keep in mind.
    One thing I'd like to point out is that Portals and Hearthstones are legit. I remember in one of the books Anduin hopped between Darnassus and Stormwind via a mage portal and also he likes using his HS to Theramore and other places a lot.

  3. #3
    The Heritage armors, for example. The Ren'dorei and Sin'dorei Heritage armors for instance are worn by a lot of players but obviously lorewise they are supposed to be unique sets given only to the greatest champion of their race. I feel like that's not too different from your point about Artifact weapons.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    One thing I'd like to point out is that Portals and Hearthstones are legit. I remember in one of the books Anduin hopped between Darnassus and Stormwind via a mage portal and also he likes using his HS to Theramore and other places a lot.
    I think the hearthstone probably doesn't actually exist, but my point was about the network. A king or prince having the diplomatic and economic pull to go through a portal to go from one continent to another is one thing, entire armies of adventurers going through them constantly every day is another and is feasible for gameplay, but unrealistic to expect even in a fantasy world.

    Like how they adjudicate it in say a D&D setting is often through the use of expensive reagents that can often be a campaign in and of itself to obtain. Depending on how the campaign is being run anyway.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I think the hearthstone probably doesn't actually exist, but my point was about the network. A king or prince having the diplomatic and economic pull to go through a portal to go from one continent to another is one thing, entire armies of adventurers going through them constantly every day is another and is feasible for gameplay, but unrealistic to expect even in a fantasy world.

    Like how they adjudicate it in say a D&D setting is often through the use of expensive reagents that can often be a campaign in and of itself to obtain. Depending on how the campaign is being run anyway.
    Khadgar can open portals that bring about armies of people without an effort to even different time-dimensions.

    Else lore-wise WoD could not have happened.

    So if he alone can do that, I think literally any mage can portal one person at a time without much effort. I would say the portals rooms in both cities are pretty much canon stuff. Maybe access costs money (a goblin runs it anyways) but it should exist at this point.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Multiple Hearts of Azeroth, and by extention I suppose there is only one champion/player character then?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    The Heritage armors, for example. The Ren'dorei and Sin'dorei Heritage armors for instance are worn by a lot of players but obviously lorewise they are supposed to be unique sets given only to the greatest champion of their race. I feel like that's not too different from your point about Artifact weapons.
    You know, I'd give credence to your viewpoint were it not for literally every guard in SMC wearing essentially the same gear as the Blood Elf heritage armor - except made thirteen years ago, so the texture resolution is physically painful to look at.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Khadgar can open portals that bring about armies of people without an effort to even different time-dimensions.

    Else lore-wise WoD could not have happened.

    So if he alone can do that, I think literally any mage can portal one person at a time without much effort. I would say the portals rooms in both cities are pretty much canon stuff. Maybe access costs money (a goblin runs it anyways) but it should exist at this point.
    In the Elegy short-story, they explicitly said the Stormwind/Highborne magi couldn't make portals for an entire army to go through, nor speedily have Teldrassil's population escape through one at once. Khadgar with Mediev's staff isvan exception, I guess.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Khadgar can open portals that bring about armies of people without an effort to even different time-dimensions.

    Else lore-wise WoD could not have happened.

    So if he alone can do that, I think literally any mage can portal one person at a time without much effort. I would say the portals rooms in both cities are pretty much canon stuff. Maybe access costs money (a goblin runs it anyways) but it should exist at this point.
    The weirdest thing about the Warcraft hard-magic system is how piss-easy teleportation and portal magic is. In virtually any other IP it's archmage-level or even downright impossible.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    In the Elegy short-story, they explicitly said the Stormwind/Highborne magi couldn't make portals for an entire army to go through, nor speedily have Teldrassil's population escape through one at once. Khadgar with Mediev's staff isvan exception, I guess.
    Jaina can canonically raise a flagship with arcane magic, fly it incredible distances (from the great sea to the undercity) make it shoot arcane blasts, freeze a city wide blight spread and teleport people around like it's breathing.

    These are in cinematics and cinematics are supposed to be the canon-est canon there is. So there you go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    The weirdest thing about the Warcraft hard-magic system is how piss-easy teleportation and portal magic is. In virtually any other IP it's archmage-level or even downright impossible.
    It's only wierd to you because you specifically compare it to IP's where it doesn't work like this.

    Which doesn't make it wierd, it means WoW is different.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Khadgar can open portals that bring about armies of people without an effort to even different time-dimensions.

    Else lore-wise WoD could not have happened.

    So if he alone can do that, I think literally any mage can portal one person at a time without much effort. I would say the portals rooms in both cities are pretty much canon stuff. Maybe access costs money (a goblin runs it anyways) but it should exist at this point.
    Except the armies of Azeroth that come to AU Draenor all get there through the Black Portal, which is a weird soul powered nexus. Even then it was considered a suicide mission and they never go about saying how we all get back once it's sealed.

    Our garrison and the bases by Ashran are another example of gameplay > lore/mechanics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    The weirdest thing about the Warcraft hard-magic system is how piss-easy teleportation and portal magic is. In virtually any other IP it's archmage-level or even downright impossible.
    It only is on a player character level.

    Think about the Black Portal, needed to be fueled with souls and anchored on two worlds by a beefed up archmage and the burning legion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Jaina can canonically raise a flagship with arcane magic, fly it incredible distances (from the great sea to the undercity) make it shoot arcane blasts, freeze a city wide blight spread and teleport people around like it's breathing.

    These are in cinematics and cinematics are supposed to be the canon-est canon there is. So there you go.

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    It's only wierd to you because you specifically compare it to IP's where it doesn't work like this.

    Which doesn't make it wierd, it means WoW is different.
    Small implications that she might have been working on that particular project since the events of Legion, she has a weird extra boom-boom magic staff and it follows the rule of cool.

    Not exactly meant to be taken seriously.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I think the hearthstone probably doesn't actually exist, but my point was about the network. A king or prince having the diplomatic and economic pull to go through a portal to go from one continent to another is one thing, entire armies of adventurers going through them constantly every day is another and is feasible for gameplay, but unrealistic to expect even in a fantasy world.

    Like how they adjudicate it in say a D&D setting is often through the use of expensive reagents that can often be a campaign in and of itself to obtain. Depending on how the campaign is being run anyway.
    Actually in 2 of the books HS are mentioned and used, that being said they are a lot more rare and not something the everyday joe would have.

  13. #13
    Not sure I'm adding to the discussion much, but I'd just say this kinda stuff is extremely immersion-breaking for me. Especially the no-definable-limits-on-what-a-mage-can-do nonsense. Seeing Jaina fly a giant ship or the lazy-ass "Let me teleport everyone to safety!" stuff is, to me, the Achilles heel of retail.

    Too bad Classic, which is much better about this stuff, would require hundreds of hours of my life and 70 virgins to really explore...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Jaina can [...] teleport people around like it's breathing.
    Yes, but only to nearby areas. She can't mass-teleport an army across a continent.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pawstruck View Post
    Not sure I'm adding to the discussion much, but I'd just say this kinda stuff is extremely immersion-breaking for me. Especially the no-definable-limits-on-what-a-mage-can-do nonsense. Seeing Jaina fly a giant ship or the lazy-ass "Let me teleport everyone to safety!" stuff is, to me, the Achilles heel of retail.

    Too bad Classic, which is much better about this stuff, would require hundreds of hours of my life and 70 virgins to really explore...
    I've played Classic and played back in the day. The main attraction from a lore perspective is that there's a lot of fuzzy areas where stuff has been left blank. Lets players explore with their imagination.

    Which is one of the reasons why I think the release of Chronicle was a bad move.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    Actually in 2 of the books HS are mentioned and used, that being said they are a lot more rare and not something the everyday joe would have.
    I mean, according to the lore, our characters are not "everyday joes".

    Our characters are supposed to be the best of the best. Champions for their factions as well as their chosen classes.

    If I had a tool that could help the saviors of the world get from point b back to point a, you'd better believe I'm gonna give it to aforementioned badass.

  17. #17
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    Portals 100% depend on what the writers want to do at any given moment. There's no rhyme or reason for their use. Just 1 story they want to use portals and then the next they don't.

    Too much of Warcraft's story relies on the whim of the writers to form any coherent list of things that do/do not exist in canon and what is just gameplay mechanics.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I think the hearthstone probably doesn't actually exist, but my point was about the network. A king or prince having the diplomatic and economic pull to go through a portal to go from one continent to another is one thing, entire armies of adventurers going through them constantly every day is another and is feasible for gameplay, but unrealistic to expect even in a fantasy world.

    Like how they adjudicate it in say a D&D setting is often through the use of expensive reagents that can often be a campaign in and of itself to obtain. Depending on how the campaign is being run anyway.
    Jaina have anduin a hearthstone before but they're supposed to be super rare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Portals 100% depend on what the writers want to do at any given moment. There's no rhyme or reason for their use. Just 1 story they want to use portals and then the next they don't.

    Too much of Warcraft's story relies on the whim of the writers to form any coherent list of things that do/do not exist in canon and what is just gameplay mechanics.
    I can see this being a problem, due to the lore source stemming from a video game, because "rule of cool" is still a powerful factor for the media. Warcraft just doesn't have a robust set of "rules" for how the magic system works when compared to many fantasy novels; even with Chronicle. I mean, just ask "what exactly are Jaina's and Khadgar's limits?" We really have no idea, to the point that we can't foreshadow or anticipate any possible capability. All we know is that it's something between "great strategic feats of magic" and "not enough to one shot the biggest bads."

    The best fantasy writers establish a system of rules and consequences, then weave a story within those rule. WoW writers have done the opposite, making up "rules" to fit whatever narrative they've chosen.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I can see this being a problem, due to the lore source stemming from a video game, because "rule of cool" is still a powerful factor for the media. Warcraft just doesn't have a robust set of "rules" for how the magic system works when compared to many fantasy novels; even with Chronicle. I mean, just ask "what exactly are Jaina's and Khadgar's limits?" We really have no idea, to the point that we can't foreshadow or anticipate any possible capability. All we know is that it's something between "great strategic feats of magic" and "not enough to one shot the biggest bads."

    The best fantasy writers establish a system of rules and consequences, then weave a story within those rule. WoW writers have done the opposite, making up "rules" to fit whatever narrative they've chosen.
    The most nonsensical one recently is in BfA where they try to teleport out the entire civilian population of Teldrassil, but for some reason can't send an army there to help the night elves defend.

    Then during the siege of Undercity Alleria effortlessly teleports in an army deus ex machina style to save the day.

    I hate Blizzard's use of portals in the story. It's just so incredibly stupid. It'd be nice if Blizzard had writers that actually gave a fuck about consistency, but they just don't.

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