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  1. #1

    Returning spells SL

    Hello, guys!
    - First of all id like you to excuse my bad english, i was sleeping during english lessons t_t -

    Yesterday i was thinking about the returning spells that we gonna have for Shadowlands and im not gonna lie, i don't feel satisfied at all with whats coming around. Ive been playing Mage for almost 10 years and while time goes on, i feel like its gameplay lack of you know "skillcap". I think most of people were like me after all our big spells goes deleted/nerfed etc. I don't give a damn sh** having fireblast while im playing arcane seriously and id like to share some of my favorite spells that i hope they will reintroduce in next expac, spells that made me have so much fun/frustration etc..

    - The good old combustion ! For thoses who did not experiment the old combustion mechanic, this one got replace at legion, this only spell required an addon, the principe was simple but kinda hard to use at its maximum potential(especially with alter time or prismatic cristal-> see bottom), combustion did not gives you any critical chance instead you had to "build" your ignite during a short amount of time and once you feel like you did your best you press the hela button ! 1min CD !!

    - *My favorite ! Alter time! Was what you call now mechagon wrist but in a different way here is an exemple of rotation as frost mage with alter time:
    Brain Freeze proc
    Ideally 2 x FoF procs
    Make sure you have enough time left on your 90 talent (when you unlock it)
    Passive procs to go off (if any)
    Hit Icy Veins, use a Potion of the Jade Serpent, use any active trinkets/items, and then hit Alter Time.
    Exhaust all your FoF and Brain Freeze in the 6 second window. Refresh Bomb if needed. Repeat when Alter Time expires.

    So, you use everything twice, available for all 3 specs, differents way to use it, very fun tho !

    - Prismatic crystal ! Thoses who played with mannoroth trinket abviously love this spell ^^, Conjures a prismatic crystal at the target location, which is attackable by only the Mage, and takes 10% (Frost) / 30% (Arcane/Fire) additional damage. When the crystal takes damage, it instantly releases a burst of energy dealing that damage, split evenly between all enemies within 8 yards.

    my definition of this spell: Burn them all ! Required good timing to use and setup.

    - Mirror image! Once happen a time where this spell was a serious choice, no joking.
    - Nether tempest! Very good AoE/Cleave sustain back in MoP this spell can be use on as many target as possible

    --Special mention to the Warrior stance dance.
    - RAID SET.
    And more... I did not mentioned Cold snap which was able for all spec, evanescance which allow to disapear 'like literally' very fast for i think 5seconds(allows you to dodge some boss mechanics) etc etc..

    With all the incredible spells we had back in the day you are telling me that today's mage needs a frost bolt as fire spec? Or a fireblast as arcane, like come on..
    Last edited by VodkaBlyat; 2019-12-16 at 04:29 PM.

  2. #2
    I'd love for Mirror Image to go baseline, I like using it but having it as the worst choice for the three specs is annoying :c

  3. #3
    Yes i agree, its kinda bad having to chose between spell power buffs and mirror image

  4. #4
    I would like most of those (with evanescence being a talent to replace iceblock).

    Just don't bring old combustion back. Please.

  5. #5
    Well i think the old combustion felt way better than what we have now aka a disguised buff, without the essence and bracers you would not play fire at all imo. The fact is with the old combu you had to manage so much things that make you better or not than the other Mage, i would not say that 8.2 combustion is bad but what will happen at the 9.0? Without bracers, without essences? And I feel like a spaghetti in between two combustion :/..

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaBlyat View Post
    Well i think the old combustion felt way better than what we have now aka a disguised buff, without the essence and bracers you would not play fire at all imo. The fact is with the old combu you had to manage so much things that make you better or not than the other Mage, i would not say that 8.2 combustion is bad but what will happen at the 9.0? Without bracers, without essences? And I feel like a spaghetti in between two combustion :/..
    New combustion imho feels way better than the old one. You get you crit procs, throw out instants and hurl pyros like a madman. Old combustion just made a higher number tick on an enemy. And needing an addon to even properly use the ability just isn't great gameplay.

  7. #7
    Here is a early Raid tier in mop "Heart of fear", where people did not had that much stats etc.. The old combustion looks almost the same, but so many things happen, so many setups, and yeah to me a mage have to manage something like his mana as arcane, ignite as fire etc.. Its a good way for players to perf since you have to do everything correctly more than praying for a "buff" that would make them top 10 on warcraftlogs:

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    New combustion imho feels way better than the old one. You get you crit procs, throw out instants and hurl pyros like a madman. Old combustion just made a higher number tick on an enemy. And needing an addon to even properly use the ability just isn't great gameplay.
    While I won't argue that the new combustion feels great to use, the cata iteration was amazing! It only got neutered from MoP onward.
    And while I love that ability back then, I do agree with the devs reasoning for removing it; any spell that needs an addon to use it correctly is badly designed.

    I do agree with @VodkaBlyat's original sentiment... The skill ceiling nowadays is too low.
    How to go about fixing that, I don't know. But bringing the old combustion back might not be the right solution, at least not without some changes. Also
    PRISMATIC CRYSTAL CAN GO DIE IN A FIRE. Oh, it's already gone? Good riddance, I say. It was almost as unpleasant to use as RoP is now.

    They mentioned Alter Time some while back, concerning abilities they removed but shouldn't have... So, possible return of AT? The odds are good!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    While I won't argue that the new combustion feels great to use, the cata iteration was amazing! It only got neutered from MoP onward.
    And while I love that ability back then, I do agree with the devs reasoning for removing it; any spell that needs an addon to use it correctly is badly designed.

    I do agree with @VodkaBlyat's original sentiment... The skill ceiling nowadays is too low.
    How to go about fixing that, I don't know. But bringing the old combustion back might not be the right solution, at least not without some changes. Also
    PRISMATIC CRYSTAL CAN GO DIE IN A FIRE. Oh, it's already gone? Good riddance, I say. It was almost as unpleasant to use as RoP is now.

    They mentioned Alter Time some while back, concerning abilities they removed but shouldn't have... So, possible return of AT? The odds are good!
    I'd love to have altered time back. Would also appreciate a return of Phoenix Flames (7.2 version with chaining) and active flame on back to have a more fluid playstyle while crit-levels are low.

  10. #10
    And while I love that ability back then, I do agree with the devs reasoning for removing it; any spell that needs an addon to use it correctly is badly designed.

    I do agree with @VodkaBlyat's original sentiment... The skill ceiling nowadays is too low.
    How to go about fixing that, I don't know. But bringing the old combustion back might not be the right solution, at least not without some changes. Also
    PRISMATIC CRYSTAL CAN GO DIE IN A FIRE. Oh, it's already gone? Good riddance, I say. It was almost as unpleasant to use as RoP is now.
    lol i did not even remember the cata's combustion xD! But there is something i don't understand from you guys, aren't you playing with addons? Today's people have addons for everything. So to me its almost every spells that needs addons, people are tracking Trinkets double on use trinket, runes timer etc.. Its almost the same with combustion. Did you remember Hfc? Where people has the biggest mana bar that ever existed so they can track if they goes down to 93% or not. Prismatic cristal offer good opportunities, it was kinda frustrating because heavely tank dependant but its a part of the game like the RoP it require you to have a perfect knowledge to the fight but the more you play around your RoP the more you are good it was part of the mage mechanic !

    Dude you made my day, like if they turning back AT i would be sooo happy !

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaBlyat View Post
    lol i did not even remember the cata's combustion xD! But there is something i don't understand from you guys, aren't you playing with addons? Today's people have addons for everything. So to me its almost every spells that needs addons, people are tracking Trinkets double on use trinket, runes timer etc.. Its almost the same with combustion. Did you remember Hfc? Where people has the biggest mana bar that ever existed so they can track if they goes down to 93% or not. Prismatic cristal offer good opportunities, it was kinda frustrating because heavely tank dependant but its a part of the game like the RoP it require you to have a perfect knowledge to the fight but the more you play around your RoP the more you are good it was part of the mage mechanic !

    Dude you made my day, like if they turning back AT i would be sooo happy !
    Addons are nice and all, but I don't want them to play the game for me. Increasing visibility of certain UI elements like buffs and their timers, that's one thing, having an addon calculate when to press which button, on the other hand, feels really cheap. Same for addons like DBM, whoever wants an addon to streamline their game is more than welcome, but to me, it makes the gameplay bland.
    Problem with RoP is, even if you play it perfectly, knowing the fight and such, it doesn't feel good. Opinions may differ, ofc.

    Fingers crossed for that AT.

  12. #12
    Ppl arguing for Prismatic Crystal really show that entire generations of players change between a few expansions.

  13. #13
    Addons are nice and all, but I don't want them to play the game for me. Increasing visibility of certain UI elements like buffs and their timers, that's one thing, having an addon calculate when to press which button, on the other hand, feels really cheap. Same for addons like DBM, whoever wants an addon to streamline their game is more than welcome, but to me, it makes the gameplay bland.
    Problem with RoP is, even if you play it perfectly, knowing the fight and such, it doesn't feel good. Opinions may differ, ofc.

    Fingers crossed for that AT.
    I really understand your point of view and not totally disagree with you but to me this spell deserved an upgrade more than a redesign and about RoP i know that lots of people were not happy the way it used to be played and i was one of thoses who loved it anyway because to me, the more a class plays around mechanics the less rng can be impactful because before numbers appears you have to play perfectly


    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Ppl arguing for Prismatic Crystal really show that entire generations of players change between a few expansions.
    Why?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaBlyat View Post
    Why?
    Because it was pretty much universally disliked by the entire mage community.
    Same with RoP, which you also like. Again, I'm not hating, I get it. Different strokes for different folks.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaBlyat View Post
    I really understand your point of view and not totally disagree with you but to me this spell deserved an upgrade more than a redesign and about RoP i know that lots of people were not happy the way it used to be played and i was one of thoses who loved it anyway because to me, the more a class plays around mechanics the less rng can be impactful because before numbers appears you have to play perfectly




    Why?
    I don't know, how you could update something so inherently flawed as combustion to something useful.

    The main problem with stuff like old Combustion, Rune of Power and Prismatic Crystal is, that they make the class feel "clunky". They are stuff, you play AROUND, rather than stuff to play WITH. While I get, that there are some people who like that playstyle, most people just don't enjoy it.

  16. #16
    I would like to see old arcane mage mastery, glyphs and some more changes for example skill trees or removing that if you are more powerful, monsters are more powerful also <-- this is the biggest shit I have ever seen ...
    Blizzard in legion changed ilvl scaling and right now I can say its bad* they said with this changes it will be easier to balance and its bad like it was (or worst) but players right now in this RPG game can't get high stats like before ... balance @.@ (some classes was good at start of new expansion some in middle and some at the end expansion, not only mages archetypes but all classes)

    *right now ilvl scaling its linear not like before that 10 ilvl was for you upgrade not matter what stats it has

    ... also I could also say something about ilvl from mythic raids, masterloot, mythic dungeons and titanforged items but this is a long story ...
    Last edited by Nehem; 2020-01-09 at 08:51 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehem View Post
    I would like to see old arcane mage mastery, glyphs and some more changes for example skill trees or removing that if you are more powerful, monsters are more powerful also <-- this is the biggest shit I have ever seen ...
    Blizzard in legion changed ilvl scaling and right now I can say its bad* they said with this changes it will be easier to balance and its bad like it was (or worst) but players right now in this RPG game can't get high stats like before ... balance @.@ (some classes was good at start of new expansion some in middle and some at the end expansion, not only mages archetypes but all classes)

    *right now ilvl scaling its linear not like before that 10 ilvl was for you upgrade not matter what stats it has

    ... also I could also say something about ilvl from mythic raids, masterloot, mythic dungeons and titanforged items but this is a long story ...
    Well, the mob scaling was to prevent a repeat of MoP when a geared player could walk into a subzone, pull dozens of mobs, and wipe them out with one or two spells. Having the mobs gain a fraction of the strength we do prevents that for the most part.

    As for the ilvl scaling I'm not really sure what you're talking about? The squish? The squish had nothing to do with any kind of balancing.

    As for the 10 ilvl higher item always being an upgrade, that has nothing to scaling or balancing. Some stats are more powerful for some specs than others. This is unavoidable. That's why the theorycrafters created stat weights and other tools for us. In MoP for instance I was passing on heroic SoO gear that was heavy on haste because haste was point for point so bad for me that it was a downgrade compared to my overall lower stat gear that had no haste. There were times I had literally 0 haste on my gear.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    As for the ilvl scaling I'm not really sure what you're talking about? The squish? The squish had nothing to do with any kind of balancing.
    are you sure @.@ did I said squish ?... squish was unfortunately necessary (but they did it wrong... when they will do it right only 1 squish will be necessary but they do how many times... 2 and now in shadowlands they will do another one so 3 in total so this can't be good but it's necessary to play with 'normal stats' )... in SoO you had reforge, so this argument is invalid that you had 0 haste

    link for you what I was talking about ilvl scaling on gear

    https://imgur.com/a/bBoSnSG

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehem View Post
    are you sure @.@ did I said squish ?... squish was unfortunately necessary (but they did it wrong... when they will do it right only 1 squish will be necessary but they do how many times... 2 and now in shadowlands they will do another one so 3 in total so this can't be good but it's necessary to play with 'normal stats' )... in SoO you had reforge, so this argument is invalid that you had 0 haste

    link for you what I was talking about ilvl scaling on gear

    https://imgur.com/a/bBoSnSG
    Even with reforging you couldn't hit 0 haste if you had it on your gear.

    Yeah. It's linear up until the point of the last squish. Then it goes up wildly. Then next squish makes it linear again.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  20. #20
    The main problem with stuff like old Combustion

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