Page 62 of 72 FirstFirst ...
12
52
60
61
62
63
64
... LastLast
  1. #1221
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Promote guild hopping over bonding with friends? Lolz. If you and your friends have a common goal - be it clearing heroic raids, running mythic dungeons or kissing squirrels - that's great. No one is forcing you to do anything. If you and your friends like to do mythic raids at your own pace - great, do it, go for it. But when your motivation differs, and you decide you want more/better progression while your friends are ok with things how they are - things will go differently. It goes for real life as well, work, sports, almost any aspect there is.

    75% of the end content is available for the majority, you can do mythic dungeons, raids of heroic/normal/lfr difficulty, pvp. We are talking about a specific TINY portion of that endgame content which is supposed to be the most difficult one.

    What signs are you talking about? Amount of guilds having killed bosses got lower? Yes it did. Do we know why? Nope. For all i know most of them had some irl issues and couldn't contribute to raiding often. And unless someone does a pretty big survey - we won't know the real reason why.

    Harder to fill rosters? On low populated servers - yes, as it always been. I've been on low populated server till Cataclysm and it was a sh*t show when it came to recruiting even then.On high-populated servers recruiting is pretty ok.

    It will be a farce when you start nerfing it to the ground, making the whole mythic raiding pointless. And i am pretty glad Blizzard do not nerf it until the end of expansion or close to it.

    P.S. You can call me all you want, like i care if someone insults me over the internet lolz
    you sure sound like someone who doesnt care m8

  2. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonqt View Post
    you sure sound like someone who doesnt care m8
    That's quite an argument you made there

  3. #1223
    Brewmaster Deztru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,353
    Forced 20man and the grind to be competitive are the main reasons why mythic is dying. Mythic (before Heroic) were always really difficult but the management wasn't complete ass back then. 25man was never popular among the majority of raiders.

    WoD introduced 20man, Legion introduced the senseless grind to stay at the top and titanforging. ShockedPikachuFace people can't commit to raiding when the commitment required has increased tenfold.

  4. #1224
    Quote Originally Posted by Krille View Post
    Because of raiding participation rates. Way less people overall.
    Far more to do outside of raiding than there used to be. Many people, myself included, do m+ as their primary game mode. Raiding is just an activity to supplement that.

  5. #1225
    Quote Originally Posted by Deztru View Post
    Forced 20man and the grind to be competitive are the main reasons why mythic is dying. Mythic (before Heroic) were always really difficult but the management wasn't complete ass back then. 25man was never popular among the majority of raiders.

    WoD introduced 20man, Legion introduced the senseless grind to stay at the top and titanforging. ShockedPikachuFace people can't commit to raiding when the commitment required has increased tenfold.
    MoP's pre-patch introduced 20-man.

    Titanforging was a thing since ToT, under a different name, called Thunderforging, then Warforging, same nonsense all of it.

    Of all you said, the real argument is the grind.

    Legion did indeed introduce the burnout inducing grind that now seems to be blown to 11 with every new patch, just to keep up on the curve.

    Blizzard should dearly take a look back at what they've done and 180 that pile, because if it goes on longer, they will start seeing their customer-base dwindling.

    Weebs will stay but if the raider quits, then soon the rest follow. It's just the way it is.


    Also, yeah, bring back 10-man. Idc that it made it harder to balance, it was fun and more-over, easier to put together!

  6. #1226
    Quote Originally Posted by kernel-wow View Post
    MoP's pre-patch introduced 20-man.

    Titanforging was a thing since ToT, under a different name, called Thunderforging, then Warforging, same nonsense all of it.

    Of all you said, the real argument is the grind.

    Legion did indeed introduce the burnout inducing grind that now seems to be blown to 11 with every new patch, just to keep up on the curve.

    Blizzard should dearly take a look back at what they've done and 180 that pile, because if it goes on longer, they will start seeing their customer-base dwindling.

    Weebs will stay but if the raider quits, then soon the rest follow. It's just the way it is.


    Also, yeah, bring back 10-man. Idc that it made it harder to balance, it was fun and more-over, easier to put together!
    Thunder and Warforging were limited to +5 Ilvl's which is a big deal because then its just a little fun bonus you can get and not something you grind for over and over because some dungeon trinket is BiS if it procs Titanforging multiple times.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  7. #1227
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finding a stranger in the alps.
    Posts
    3,544
    Tuning gets even more tight this tier. Bad corruption luck = no boss kills.

  8. #1228
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Tuning gets even more tight this tier. Bad corruption luck = no boss kills.
    It's not corruptions lol. Those guilds have basically perfect corrupts from BOEs and the tuning is still this tight.

  9. #1229
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finding a stranger in the alps.
    Posts
    3,544
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    It's not corruptions lol. Those guilds have basically perfect corrupts from BOEs and the tuning is still this tight.
    I'm talking about my own experience. One and a half raid nights spent on wrathion this week and the best pull is a 17% enrage. We get aotc week 1 but can't pass the dps check on the first mythic boss. Got a corrupted gun from nzoth and my sim dps went up 13k. Now we have to wait for other players to get lucky too.

  10. #1230
    Quote Originally Posted by kernel-wow View Post
    MoP's pre-patch introduced 20-man.
    Warlord's pre-patch introduced it. It was 6.0, which was the pre-expansion patch for WoD. This is why there's a Mythic SoO because they introduced a new "between LFR and Normal" difficulty which was kinda unnamed but unofficially named "Flex". This became the new Normal. Normal became the new Heroic. Heroic became the new Mythic. We already had 4 difficulties in SoO, they just changed the names and made Mythic (the old Heroic) locked to 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by kernel-wow View Post
    Titanforging was a thing since ToT, under a different name, called Thunderforging, then Warforging, same nonsense all of it.
    False. Thunderforging was an ALWAYS LOCKED +6(?) iLvl increase. It would never go higher than that. This became Warforged in SoO, then stuck throughout WoD. The equivalent to today would be a socket rolling on gear vs not rolling on a gear: Nice if you get it, but not mandatory (except in the case of rings/bracers/boots).

    Quote Originally Posted by kernel-wow View Post
    the real argument is the grind.
    For sure. Legion just obliterated the paltry amount you had to do to stay up to date. M+ is a godsend, but raiders shouldn't feel pressured to spam it. M+ players also shouldn't feel pressured to raid. In addition, Legiondary grinding was so abysmal, on top of needing to keep up-to-date on all your characters' multiple specs of AP.

    Quote Originally Posted by kernel-wow View Post
    Also, yeah, bring back 10-man. Idc that it made it harder to balance, it was fun and more-over, easier to put together!
    Sad but true. Majority of raiders would kill to have 10-player come back. Or, at the very least, they should have made Mythic 15-player would mean 10-player teams had to add +5 players, and 25-player guilds get a bigger bench of +10. Forcing 10-player teams to double in size is another huge part of what ruined the Mythic community. Hell it consumed both my guilds I've been with through the end of SoO to NH, and another guild I joined shortly after which lasted from NH to end of EP. We simply had too much burnout trying to do Mythic with 20 and would have easily been able to continue if 10 (or even 15) player Mythic was a thing.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  11. #1231
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    I'm talking about my own experience. One and a half raid nights spent on wrathion this week and the best pull is a 17% enrage. We get aotc week 1 but can't pass the dps check on the first mythic boss. Got a corrupted gun from nzoth and my sim dps went up 13k. Now we have to wait for other players to get lucky too.

    If you're hitting the enrage timer on wrathion you've got way bigger problems than corrupts my man. That's some straight up awful play across the board. You're doing something very wrong if you enrage on that boss, corrupts or no corrupts.

    Guilds kill that boss with 3-4 dead dps. I didn't even know that boss had an enrage timer. I am honestly baffled as to how that even happens, you guys have to be afking for most of the fight.
    Last edited by asil; 2020-01-31 at 09:10 AM.

  12. #1232
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finding a stranger in the alps.
    Posts
    3,544
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    If you're hitting the enrage timer on wrathion you've got way bigger problems than corrupts my man. That's some straight up awful play across the board. You're doing something very wrong if you enrage on that boss, corrupts or no corrupts.

    Guilds kill that boss with 3-4 dead dps. I didn't even know that boss had an enrage timer. I am honestly baffled as to how that even happens, you guys have to be afking for most of the fight.
    If the guilds you're talking about are the world first racers then yeah that makes sense, it's their job to be as geared as possible. We've got a varying team of bad players and good ones but got to queens court last tier so that's not terrible. I guess you could classify that as above average progression? The fights are absolutely tuned for corruption, some of them are basically legion legendaries.

  13. #1233
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    If the guilds you're talking about are the world first racers then yeah that makes sense, it's their job to be as geared as possible. We've got a varying team of bad players and good ones but got to queens court last tier so that's not terrible. I guess you could classify that as above average progression? The fights are absolutely tuned for corruption, some of them are basically legion legendaries.
    They're also tuned for higher ilvl cloaks, which will give a mainstat proc soon. Plus they always nerf mythic after the WF race is over.

  14. #1234
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    If the guilds you're talking about are the world first racers then yeah that makes sense, it's their job to be as geared as possible. We've got a varying team of bad players and good ones but got to queens court last tier so that's not terrible. I guess you could classify that as above average progression? The fights are absolutely tuned for corruption, some of them are basically legion legendaries.
    I am telling you right now if you killed orgo mythic last tier and are enraging on wrathion you are doing something very, very wrong. You're taking way too long on the shards or something.

    There are 11min kills on that boss with people doing literally 30k dps. Corrupts are probably a factor on the bosses after like the 3rd, but wrathion is not based on corrupts. It's tuned super low, as in you could do it with 0 corrupts if people do over 30k dps.

    I think wrathion probably has too much hp for an entry level boss, but there's like no dps check there unless a bunch of people are afking.

    Do you have logs?
    Last edited by asil; 2020-01-31 at 10:03 AM.

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    Do you have logs?
    The name docterfreeze leads to a DK on US-Fenris on WoWProg who is linked to a hunter main Foctordreeze who is AOTC with a 470 gun. Plugging that back into WCL we get a 65.8% best heroic parsing MM hunter.

    Guild mythic log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ulty=5&wipes=1

    He's at #1 for his guild at 42.6k dps, everyone else is sub-40k, and a few sub-30k, overall for the night.

    They've got an h-pal pulling 42k HPS and healing is led by their mistweaver monk (over disc, battle sham, hpal).

    Their best pull listed was only a 10:01 fight, which featured dps between 60k and 38k, and doesn't appear to be an enrage given there are lots of kills over 11 mins on WCL.



    Edit: and appears he never had QC, and only got Orgo once on Dec 12 (post nerf IIRC). He had 7 weeks on Radiance/Behemoth/Ashvane, implying he never progged on those but came in after the guild had progged to Orgo.
    Last edited by bullseyed; 2020-01-31 at 04:45 PM.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    If you're hitting the enrage timer on wrathion you've got way bigger problems than corrupts my man. That's some straight up awful play across the board. You're doing something very wrong if you enrage on that boss, corrupts or no corrupts.

    Guilds kill that boss with 3-4 dead dps. I didn't even know that boss had an enrage timer. I am honestly baffled as to how that even happens, you guys have to be afking for most of the fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    I am telling you right now if you killed orgo mythic last tier and are enraging on wrathion you are doing something very, very wrong. You're taking way too long on the shards or something.

    There are 11min kills on that boss with people doing literally 30k dps. Corrupts are probably a factor on the bosses after like the 3rd, but wrathion is not based on corrupts. It's tuned super low, as in you could do it with 0 corrupts if people do over 30k dps.

    I think wrathion probably has too much hp for an entry level boss, but there's like no dps check there unless a bunch of people are afking.

    Do you have logs?
    Bullshit. I checked my guild's kill, which is 10:45 and it's past enrage cuz both tanks died from berserk hits, so enrage is like 10:30.

    There was 1 dps dead only, so these aren't examples of "kills with multiple dps dead".

    Our last dps excluding the dead guy was 34k. Our top dps was 48k, which was 98% parse. Even the dead guy amounted to 28k dps (18 mil damage provided before he died).

    There's absolutely no way this can be attributed to "afking" or "idling on the shards", the shards are spread around and there's no way of controlling where they land, we already had high mobility classes taking the debuff to open the shards faster, and we had 3 warlocks and a boomkin topping damage on them already so it's not the case of having worst setup possible for killing them.

    I can get behind 1st boss not being a pushover that is insta puggable, it's a nice difference, but we're a CE guild, I imagine less progressed guilds might struggle a lot on him.

    P.S. Also 4 healers as opposed to 5 from the linked log of that hunter.
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2020-01-31 at 06:48 PM.

  17. #1237
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Bullshit. I checked my guild's kill, which is 10:45 and it's past enrage cuz both tanks died from berserk hits, so enrage is like 10:30.

    There was 1 dps dead only, so these aren't examples of "kills with multiple dps dead".

    Our last dps excluding the dead guy was 34k. Our top dps was 48k, which was 98% parse. Even the dead guy amounted to 28k dps (18 mil damage provided before he died).

    There's absolutely no way this can be attributed to "afking" or "idling on the shards", the shards are spread around and there's no way of controlling where they land, we already had high mobility classes taking the debuff to open the shards faster, and we had 3 warlocks and a boomkin topping damage on them already so it's not the case of having worst setup possible for killing them.

    I can get behind 1st boss not being a pushover that is insta puggable, it's a nice difference, but we're a CE guild, I imagine less progressed guilds might struggle a lot on him.

    P.S. Also 4 healers as opposed to 5 from the linked log of that hunter.
    Watch this, ready for this?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    Here's an 11 31 kill with people dead/grey parsing and doing like no dps. If you enrage on wrathion you are absolutely trolling.

  18. #1238
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finding a stranger in the alps.
    Posts
    3,544
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    The name docterfreeze leads to a DK on US-Fenris on WoWProg who is linked to a hunter main Foctordreeze who is AOTC with a 470 gun. Plugging that back into WCL we get a 65.8% best heroic parsing MM hunter.

    Guild mythic log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ulty=5&wipes=1

    He's at #1 for his guild at 42.6k dps, everyone else is sub-40k, and a few sub-30k, overall for the night.

    They've got an h-pal pulling 42k HPS and healing is led by their mistweaver monk (over disc, battle sham, hpal).

    Their best pull listed was only a 10:01 fight, which featured dps between 60k and 38k, and doesn't appear to be an enrage given there are lots of kills over 11 mins on WCL.



    Edit: and appears he never had QC, and only got Orgo once on Dec 12 (post nerf IIRC). He had 7 weeks on Radiance/Behemoth/Ashvane, implying he never progged on those but came in after the guild had progged to Orgo.
    Mostly true. Raided with them in uldir on the hunter and BoD on a priest but got burned out before they killed oppulence. They went on to kill rastakan. I came back with a warlock when they were progging on ashvane & killed it but ended up not liking the class.

    To explain the 10 minute best pull, wrathion enrages right after the third shard phase so we just let the scales go unsoaked to wipe faster since he was too healthy.

    All my heroic parses are pre nzoth gun

    Ultimately i'm in the wrong, I knew we had low performing players but never actually looked to see how low they really were. Problem is that we don't have a bench. We're on a merged dead server and hardly get new players, let alone new mythic raiders. A better group could've killed him without more corruption.

  19. #1239
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    Watch this, ready for this?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    Here's an 11 31 kill with people dead/grey parsing and doing like no dps. If you enrage on wrathion you are absolutely trolling.
    Yeah with mage and 2 locks having op corruptions and pumping like no tomorrow and double bloodlust due to timing... I guess the secret is to actually extend the shard phase because apparently you can, if the berserk isn't on a strict timer rather "after 3rd assassin phase", because they got it later than my guild.

    You're showing a log where a fire mage got literally world rank 1 parse. I'd like to know how many top parsers an average "we barely killed Orgozoa / Queen's court last tier" guild has.

  20. #1240
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Yeah with mage and 2 locks having op corruptions and pumping like no tomorrow and double bloodlust due to timing... I guess the secret is to actually extend the shard phase because apparently you can, if the berserk isn't on a strict timer rather "after 3rd assassin phase", because they got it later than my guild.

    You're showing a log where a fire mage got literally world rank 1 parse. I'd like to know how many top parsers an average "we barely killed Orgozoa / Queen's court last tier" guild has.

    Fam that is not "pumping" 2 warlocks with a 90th percentile and a 98th percentile don't make up for like 4 grey parsers and dead dps.

    I don't know how to make this clear, if you enrage on wrathion it wasn't due to corruption, but a bunch of your players simply just playing very poorly.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •