1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Without those tryhard guilds, I think M raids would have much lower participation.
    "tryhard"
    based lfr hero


    to op:
    thats was a problem for our guild like what, since cata firelance heroic, i think.

    WoW evolved to a game where u need more skilled players in high end pve content and wow wasnt that in the first place. Every tier raid gets harder and rewards are diminished. When i was a recruitment officer for the guild (i think this was during SoO progress) i had people that literarly couldnt play their class optimally, not speaking of any mechanic. And with the years this got worse. Heroic has like nothing incommon with Myhtic and most people dont even have a reward drive anymore because blizzard made "everything viable".
    They either need to up the rewards or tune down the difficulty because from what i last head from a former guild member the situation in bfa didnt improved at all

  2. #1282
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    "tryhard"
    based lfr hero
    I was using the term the person I was responding to had used. He was suggesting that these guilds do not belong in Mythic. That may be the case, but they appear to be the majority of M raiding guilds (or, at least, they were before this tier.)

    I avoid LFR, btw. It's a sad place.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  3. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by Baleful View Post
    Got neck on 78 by just doing daylies, ap WQ and 3 expeditions/week plus raid, 4 hours/day top. Got an 8 hour/day work, 8 hours to sleep and there is still about 3 hours to spare every day, plus most of the shit can be done in weekends. As soon as i get 80 i can forget about AP and just do daylies (about 30 minutes) and raid, then about a month in we are finished with the tier and i have only 2 nights/week to clear the raid, implying i play only about 10 hours week max unless i want to play more on purpose. This is doable for anyone.
    So in other words WoW is the only game you play for 4 hours every single day and it's "not that bad". lol

  4. #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    WoW evolved to a game where u need more skilled players in high end pve content and wow wasnt that in the first place. Every tier raid gets harder and rewards are diminished. When i was a recruitment officer for the guild (i think this was during SoO progress) i had people that literarly couldnt play their class optimally, not speaking of any mechanic. And with the years this got worse. Heroic has like nothing incommon with Myhtic and most people dont even have a reward drive anymore because blizzard made "everything viable".
    They either need to up the rewards or tune down the difficulty because from what i last head from a former guild member the situation in bfa didnt improved at all
    Pretty much. Last week I actually let our elderly ret paladin go, because I just couldn't justify it anymore. You need players that pull their weight with at least consistent green logs and a good survival rate, or you'll get stuck on boss 4 nowadays.

    Now that tforging is gone, mythic is at least actually rewarding again. Although that is diminished a bit by M+ being able to guarantee a drop each week relatively easily.

  5. #1285
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    Quote Originally Posted by GringoD View Post
    Yes. I'm the one who made it. Did you at all notice that the creation date was well before Ny'alotha came out? Nobody talked about mythic Ny'alotha being too tight yet, which is why I was asking you who you're talking to.
    Talking about the topic because even if the thread was originally about the palace the topic is relevant now as well.
    But yeah, I wasn't replying to you in particular, but to a general concern that I read in the latest pages of the thread.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  6. #1286
    I actually think Blizzard listened when it comes to mechanics bloat in Nyalotha as that issue has been cleanly addressed. There are other issues (like corruption acquisition, balance, etc.) but the bosses are mechanically relatively straightforward. The tuning is a little tight so that it's not forgiving for low output players, but there is nothing like EP or even some BoD bosses with gazillions of mechanics.

  7. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    So in other words WoW is the only game you play for 4 hours every single day and it's "not that bad". lol
    Yes? I actually enjoy playing wow, i am not interested in any other game, also this happens only for 3-5 weeks at the start of every tier, then i move to farm schedule and i can play only 6 to 8 hours week (most times i will play more because i still enjoy it); and play other games or do IRL stuff.

  8. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamercus View Post
    I actually think Blizzard listened when it comes to mechanics bloat in Nyalotha as that issue has been cleanly addressed. There are other issues (like corruption acquisition, balance, etc.) but the bosses are mechanically relatively straightforward. The tuning is a little tight so that it's not forgiving for low output players, but there is nothing like EP or even some BoD bosses with gazillions of mechanics.
    I agree - And there's even some interesting throwback bosses in the dungeon like Wrathion and Shadhar that really evoke classic WoW raid design.

  9. #1289
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamercus View Post
    I actually think Blizzard listened when it comes to mechanics bloat in Nyalotha as that issue has been cleanly addressed. There are other issues (like corruption acquisition, balance, etc.) but the bosses are mechanically relatively straightforward. The tuning is a little tight so that it's not forgiving for low output players, but there is nothing like EP or even some BoD bosses with gazillions of mechanics.
    So I guess that's why I felt like there is 1 or 2 mechanics missing on each boss..

  10. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    I agree - And there's even some interesting throwback bosses in the dungeon like Wrathion and Shadhar that really evoke classic WoW raid design.
    Realistically, a couple target dummies arent that bad to exist now and then, friendly rivarly/competition between members and random mocking moments is what makes a boring re-clear, rather manageable.

  11. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamercus View Post
    I actually think Blizzard listened when it comes to mechanics bloat in Nyalotha as that issue has been cleanly addressed. There are other issues (like corruption acquisition, balance, etc.) but the bosses are mechanically relatively straightforward. The tuning is a little tight so that it's not forgiving for low output players, but there is nothing like EP or even some BoD bosses with gazillions of mechanics.
    I agree there was mechanics bloat, but and I feel like non-end bosses should only have a few core mechanics, but they should have added additional mechanics/phases to N'Zoth.

    Example: Nightwell, which should be the template for all raid design IMO
    - First few bosses are very straightforward, mechanics hinted at in dungeons
    - Some mid bosses have a core mechanic that's challenging but after a couple nights, most people will "get it" (Star Augur, Ellisande)
    - End boss has a few different phases with vastly different mechanics (Gul'dan)

  12. #1292
    Quote Originally Posted by dreamdaddy View Post
    I agree there was mechanics bloat, but and I feel like non-end bosses should only have a few core mechanics, but they should have added additional mechanics/phases to N'Zoth.

    Example: Nightwell, which should be the template for all raid design IMO
    - First few bosses are very straightforward, mechanics hinted at in dungeons
    - Some mid bosses have a core mechanic that's challenging but after a couple nights, most people will "get it" (Star Augur, Ellisande)
    - End boss has a few different phases with vastly different mechanics (Gul'dan)
    N'zoth (innards) is a worse fight than N'zoth (carapace).

    Nightwell was just an amazing raid in every way and they have not recaptured that mojo since. N'zoth (innards) suffers from the "irrelevant p1" problem that so many of the BFA endbosses have had. That whole cycle is just sort of dull but not as fussy or challenging as G'huun p1 or Jaina p1. Azshara p1 was not fussy or challenging... just the gaming equivalent of snorting crushed Benadryl.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    I agree - And there's even some interesting throwback bosses in the dungeon like Wrathion and Shadhar that really evoke classic WoW raid design.
    The way they did the Wrathion mythic mechanic is a great template for how to do it with other bosses. It adds one thing that changes how you play and magnifies the difficulty of the other mechanics without inflating the number of mechanics or just adding bullet hell stuff. The other nice thing about the mythic mechanic is that it increases the utility value of classes like paladins (any) because of BoF and priests with lifegrip.

    On Vexiona the mythic mechanic is also good despite its simplicity because it forces you to plan your positioning and movement on the fly as a group without just bloating up the number of different boss abilities.

  13. #1293
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Realistically, a couple target dummies arent that bad to exist now and then, friendly rivarly/competition between members and random mocking moments is what makes a boring re-clear, rather manageable.
    I wouldn't mind if they actually change Skitra to change every 33% or 25% rather than every 20%. They had the same issue with Mythrax back in Uldir. He used to change phases every 25% but they fixed it to 33% before live, because it was annoying af. Skitra phasing every 20% is just... aids.

  14. #1294
    Personally, I stepped aside as a mythic mt during BoD because the mythic raids didn’t offer enough rewards over the other difficulties.

    There’s no mythic only bosses, mythic only gear drops, etc... mounts are hardly the reward they once were when there are thousands in game.

    Give mythic legendary drops that can only drop off mythic difficulty. Give an incentive beyond a silly ilvl that means nothing because the heroic crowd isn’t far behind, and gear loses value when there’s 10 different variations of it

  15. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Personally, I stepped aside as a mythic mt during BoD because the mythic raids didn’t offer enough rewards over the other difficulties.

    There’s no mythic only bosses, mythic only gear drops, etc... mounts are hardly the reward they once were when there are thousands in game.

    Give mythic legendary drops that can only drop off mythic difficulty. Give an incentive beyond a silly ilvl that means nothing because the heroic crowd isn’t far behind, and gear loses value when there’s 10 different variations of it
    Why do people like you care about that elitist nonsense? Do you only play video games that reward you with something cosmetic in game at the end? You never play games just for the challenge or completions sake? Play every game on easy mode cause hard doesn't reward anything it's just harder.

    I could care less if heroic/mythic dropped the same item level gear, I do it for the personal achievement and completion of the game.

  16. #1296
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonoxx View Post
    Why do people like you care about that elitist nonsense? Do you only play video games that reward you with something cosmetic in game at the end? You never play games just for the challenge or completions sake? Play every game on easy mode cause hard doesn't reward anything it's just harder.
    WoW is a game that has character progression at its core.

    I mean, i'm not doing a +15 Key every week because i enjoy M+ so much or stop raiding after N'zoth Mythic is dead.
    After all, when i finish a challenging game, i also don't repeat it once per week for the sake of it.

    If other people draw their fun out of challenge alone, that's fair, but if you put in more effort (in this case, tackling a greater challenge) it's rather natural to also expect greater rewards in a game that's essentially built upon rewarding the player with more power.

  17. #1297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonoxx View Post
    Why do people like you care about that elitist nonsense? Do you only play video games that reward you with something cosmetic in game at the end? You never play games just for the challenge or completions sake? Play every game on easy mode cause hard doesn't reward anything it's just harder.

    I could care less if heroic/mythic dropped the same item level gear, I do it for the personal achievement and completion of the game.
    You can name call them all you want, but there is nothing wrong with this attitude. I don't raid Mythic anymore either. I haven't in ages. Hell I probably wouldn't be as good as I used to be and would get my ass kicked. But I still agree they deserve more. They should get special things like unique gear or fights. WoW is a social game, and it is cool to be seen as one of the best players in said social game. Don't hate cause they play a different way.

  18. #1298
    How many weeks after the release of a new raid should the last boss be killed by 50% of guilds so that the difficulty is considered appropriate?

    Considering the first guilds that cleared mythic n'zoth where using less gear then the majority of guilds that are trying to get a kill now, what would be the reason for this gap?

  19. #1299
    Quote Originally Posted by fathom81 View Post
    How many weeks after the release of a new raid should the last boss be killed by 50% of guilds so that the difficulty is considered appropriate?

    Considering the first guilds that cleared mythic n'zoth where using less gear then the majority of guilds that are trying to get a kill now, what would be the reason for this gap?
    A lot of the gap is just class stacking flexibility. A lot of class stacks are just vastly superior at dealing with certain encounter types than others. That difference is far more significant than gear or even corruptions.

  20. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonoxx View Post
    Why do people like you care about that elitist nonsense? Do you only play video games that reward you with something cosmetic in game at the end? You never play games just for the challenge or completions sake? Play every game on easy mode cause hard doesn't reward anything it's just harder.

    I could care less if heroic/mythic dropped the same item level gear, I do it for the personal achievement and completion of the game.
    Haves and have nots is at the very essence of mmorpgs. If mmorpgs are meant to mimic real life in some ways and generate a real world, it doesn’t make sense for everyone to be a winner.

    And yes, if I’m willing to play at a higher level and play mythic raids I expect to be compensated more than just a few higher stats on the same exact gear as other difficulties.

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