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  1. #1

    Anduin’s 3 lies

    Assuming that the “prophecy” is accurate, what do you think Anduin’s 3 lies are? I’ll start:

    “Wrathion and I are just friends.”

    “I value the Night Elves’ opinion on how to handle things.”

    “I believe the Horde won’t do anything bad from here on out, Thrall and Baine will keep them in check.”
    change can't wait.

  2. #2
    I always thought Anduin being the "Boy King with 3 lies" was a red herring and the real "Boy King" hasn't been shown yet.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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    If a man gets pregnant (and, while vanishingly rare, it has happened)
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    No, Antifa are the real heroes.

  3. #3
    I don't own a picture of Auntie in my desk.

  4. #4
    Do you want to know why Anduin is not the object of that prophecy? Because he has light-infused bones that hurt whenever he does something that the Light deems bad. So I am not believing that theory until I hear Anduin complaining about bone pain.

    I can't really think what the lies could be either, because Anduin just isn't the type who would lie. Even when he screws things up, he does things in good faith and not to willingly sabotage others.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

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  5. #5
    The important thing ot remember here is that Anduin likely wouldnt lie without good reason, and even then in this context a lie does not necessarily constitute what one might usually think of, that being a willful uttering of an untruth.
    What is far more likely is that Anduin says something only partially true, like if he had said that Varian died because of the Horde. He could also be lying to himself, for instance if when he tries to argeu that the Horde has changed when he knows it really hasnt.
    The last option is that he says something he only thinks is true, like if he says N'zoth is dead after the raid when N'zoth is actually still alive somewhere.

    The options for the 3 lies are endless, but given the context of the first supposed lie we can assume that he didnt lie directly to anyone, but iehter lied to himself or simply said something he only thought true.


    Generally though, the gist of these prophecies is that you need to go with your gut on it. When Ogmots dream journal came out most people i talked to assume it to mean Sylvanas, but some people attempted to overthink it. Similar to King of Diamonds being made a pawn, or all the talk of Boy-kin which is still being argued as someone other than Anduin.

  6. #6
    on the official WoW forums for lore and story there was a good thread discussing this at length. i am in agreement with some of the points made there.

    during the battle for lordaeron cutscene when anduin confronts sylvanas in the throne room he says, "only one of us wanted this war" and i believe that is one of the lies.

    anduin carries himself as virtuous and pure but i think deep down he wanted the war too to finally eliminate sylvanas for good. giving in to his darker side will likely be exploited by a villain in the future.

    as it pertains to "anduin and wrathion are just friends'' and "i care about the night elves" being lies, that is highly unlikely.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by WKOstarion View Post
    on the official WoW forums for lore and story there was a good thread discussing this at length. i am in agreement with some of the points made there.

    during the battle for lordaeron cutscene when anduin confronts sylvanas in the throne room he says, "only one of us wanted this war" and i believe that is one of the lies.

    anduin carries himself as virtuous and pure but i think deep down he wanted the war too to finally eliminate sylvanas for good. giving in to his darker side will likely be exploited by a villain in the future.

    as it pertains to "anduin and wrathion are just friends'' and "i care about the night elves" being lies, that is highly unlikely.
    Yeah, Mr. "I turned my father from a warmonger into a pacifist", Mr. "I'll free this orc so that he can end the war quickly and without any bloodshed" totally wanted to start a world war deep down.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    Yeah, Mr. "I turned my father from a warmonger into a pacifist", Mr. "I'll free this orc so that he can end the war quickly and without any bloodshed" totally wanted to start a world war deep down.
    you are generalizing what i said. perhaps i didn't explain thoroughly.

    first off, varian did not magically lose his "warmongering" or hot headed-ness thanks to anduin. sure his character development from Mists to Legion showed a more leveled headed leader but for you to say he became a pacifist is disingenuous.

    second, i said that anduin carries himself virtuous and morally above others. this isn't necessarily a bad thing because in game i am sure Anduin genuinely feels what he is doing/thinking/feeling is the right way. but he is still human and subjected to human emotions.

    so yeah, who knows if he wanted to start a war without realizing it? sylvanas causing more harm than good with war crimes after war crimes after war crimes driving a young leader to an emotional breaking point? not unheard of.

    so we speculate as to the "3 lies" and you can't write off what i said with pure generalizing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by WKOstarion View Post
    you are generalizing what i said. perhaps i didn't explain thoroughly.

    first off, varian did not magically lose his "warmongering" or hot headed-ness thanks to anduin. sure his character development from Mists to Legion showed a more leveled headed leader but for you to say he became a pacifist is disingenuous.
    He said, and I quote, "Anduin, I now believe AS YOU DO. That PEACE IS THE NOBLEST ASPIRATION."

    I write off what you said because to make a theory you need a basis on which found that theory, and there is no indication whatsoever that Anduin maliciously sought to start a war.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    and there is no indication whatsoever that Anduin maliciously sought to start a war.
    you're right and we have not yet seen what the 3 lies are revealed to be. so when that time comes we can discuss it further i suppose.

    although that is what this thread is about, anyway. what do YOU think they are?

    i think the 2nd lie is when anduin said this when creating a new void elf character:

    "The void elves may be a recent addition to our ranks, but Alleria Windrunner is one of our greatest heroes. Under her tutelage, the powers you wield will aid our cause."

    i believe the bold part to be the lie. anduin is a priest and the light cannot exist with the shadow. him a priest should know this belief and that lie will show itself as true when the void elves eventually betray all those who are now shadow-aligned.
    Last edited by WraithKingOstarion; 2019-12-16 at 02:10 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    “I believe the Horde won’t do anything bad from here on out, Thrall and Baine will keep them in check.”
    He's proven he actually believes that, hell he doesn't want to believe the Horde is bad when they're in full genocide mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by WKOstarion View Post
    you're right and we have not yet seen what the 3 lies are revealed to be. so when that time comes we can discuss it further i suppose.

    although that is what this thread is about, anyway. what do YOU think they are?

    i think the 2nd lie is when anduin said this when creating a new void elf character:

    "The void elves may be a recent addition to our ranks, but Alleria Windrunner is one of our greatest heroes. Under her tutelage, the powers you wield will aid our cause."

    i believe the bold part to be the lie. anduin is a priest and the light cannot exist with the shadow. him a priest should know this belief and that lie will show itself as true when the void elves eventually betray all those who are now shadow-aligned.
    Why is it a lie when Alleria and her void powers saved him from annihilation at the Battle of Lordaeron? Also just because you are a priest doesn't mean you shun anyone who wields unsavory powers. Not all light-wielders are extremists like Yrel and Xe'ra.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    "Wrathion and I are just friends"
    I see what you did there Give the poor boi some credit, after all coming out in such a prude society as the Stormwindian one... must be quite hard LOL

    Now, on a more serious tone, I can't imagine Manduin doing something as human (lowcase "h") as lying, or otherwise doing anything outside the Purity routine.

    That is, unless they turn him into a Jaina 2.0 - the Loa know how hard they've shilled her in BfA. But since she's seemingly going into retirement after BfA, writers could be very well preparing a proper replacement...
    "This world is a prison!"

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    Do you want to know why Anduin is not the object of that prophecy? Because he has light-infused bones that hurt whenever he does something that the Light deems bad. So I am not believing that theory until I hear Anduin complaining about bone pain.

    I can't really think what the lies could be either, because Anduin just isn't the type who would lie. Even when he screws things up, he does things in good faith and not to willingly sabotage others.
    I’m not looking to install some conspiracy here but:

    His insides hurt when he makes a bad choice. This doesn’t mean the choice was bad or wrong for him. It means that his decision/words/actions do not align with what the Light wants.

    The Light wants: we have yet to completely understand what the Light wants. I’m not inferring the Light is evil; but even good entities aren’t above doing questionable things to achieve their goals. Just like the Narru tried to force Illidan to fulfill his prophecy. Or Yrel commuting atrocities to convert all of Draenor.

    You can say “but Velens prophecy of Anduin”...a prophecy that did not come to pass. Anduin wasn’t fighting the Void, he was fighting the Burning Legion in the prophecy. The Burning Legion is quite frankly dismantled, and it wasn’t at the hands of Anduin’s Army of Light. More at the hands of a ragtag offensive where the “good” side was a mottled group (alliance, horde, illidari, and the draeni still existing on Argus)

    The entire World of Warcraft IP is built upon perspective. The humans were merely protecting their world. The Orcs were merely looking for a world not falling apart (when you look at playable orcs that is). Arthas was a Good character who went too far to protect his people (he knew the culling of strath was bad, but it protected the greater good). Even Sargeras was commiting evil deeds in the name of the greater good. Perspective is everything.

    Light/Void: two sides of the very same coin. When a narru dies it turns into a void lord. And vice versa. One controls with whispers, the other controls with emotions/feelings. One could say any attempt to control something else is inherently evil in itself.

    Anduin is a good character because he doesn’t always just trusts his feelings. He tries to see the potential in every option. And not all of his decisions are popular nor selfish. That is why he is a good character. Not because he is light infused. More likely, in spite of being Light infused.

    Ideals aren’t meant to be all encompassing. You can be a Christian, but you are meant to spread the word. Not force others to capitulate or convert. It’s the ability to believe in something, but not allow it to blind you to the beliefs of others that makes you good. And so I believe that while Anduin is a good natured character; he is not above fallacy, hope, or the errors of youth.

    He will question his emotions (Lights influence), and at times make decisions on his logic instead. The three lies could in fact be things he has said in the Lights service. It all comes down to perspective. Even Villains think they are Heroes.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jikate-Stormrage View Post
    I’m not looking to install some conspiracy here but:

    His insides hurt when he makes a bad choice. This doesn’t mean the choice was bad or wrong for him. It means that his decision/words/actions do not align with what the Light wants.

    The Light wants: we have yet to completely understand what the Light wants. I’m not inferring the Light is evil; but even good entities aren’t above doing questionable things to achieve their goals. Just like the Narru tried to force Illidan to fulfill his prophecy. Or Yrel commuting atrocities to convert all of Draenor.

    You can say “but Velens prophecy of Anduin”...a prophecy that did not come to pass. Anduin wasn’t fighting the Void, he was fighting the Burning Legion in the prophecy. The Burning Legion is quite frankly dismantled, and it wasn’t at the hands of Anduin’s Army of Light. More at the hands of a ragtag offensive where the “good” side was a mottled group (alliance, horde, illidari, and the draeni still existing on Argus)

    The entire World of Warcraft IP is built upon perspective. The humans were merely protecting their world. The Orcs were merely looking for a world not falling apart (when you look at playable orcs that is). Arthas was a Good character who went too far to protect his people (he knew the culling of strath was bad, but it protected the greater good). Even Sargeras was commiting evil deeds in the name of the greater good. Perspective is everything.

    Light/Void: two sides of the very same coin. When a narru dies it turns into a void lord. And vice versa. One controls with whispers, the other controls with emotions/feelings. One could say any attempt to control something else is inherently evil in itself.

    Anduin is a good character because he doesn’t always just trusts his feelings. He tries to see the potential in every option. And not all of his decisions are popular nor selfish. That is why he is a good character. Not because he is light infused. More likely, in spite of being Light infused.

    Ideals aren’t meant to be all encompassing. You can be a Christian, but you are meant to spread the word. Not force others to capitulate or convert. It’s the ability to believe in something, but not allow it to blind you to the beliefs of others that makes you good. And so I believe that while Anduin is a good natured character; he is not above fallacy, hope, or the errors of youth.

    He will question his emotions (Lights influence), and at times make decisions on his logic instead. The three lies could in fact be things he has said in the Lights service. It all comes down to perspective. Even Villains think they are Heroes.
    I know, I said in that post that his bones hurt based on what the Light deems to be bad. And the Light would definitely thing that lying is bad. Xe'ra, Yrel, all of these holier than thou people who pretend they are so pure and noble, do you really think they would believe that lies are good?
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I know, I said in that post that his bones hurt based on what the Light deems to be bad. And the Light would definitely thing that lying is bad. Xe'ra, Yrel, all of these holier than thou people who pretend they are so pure and noble, do you really think they would believe that lies are good?
    I absolutely would. Ask yourself, are actions more indicative of character than words?

    I could say I love you and want what’s best for you, but if I am stealing from you, coercing you into doing what I want... is that really what’s best for you? Does it really show I care about you?

    In game we are given information that leads us to believe the Light is a force for good. But we are also given instances where it’s actions are not.

    I guess it comes down to how you and I both view or perceive the Lights intentions. Which is correct, words or actions?

    I personally feel actions speak far louder than words. But I also recognize that (1) I may not have enough information to really take a stance yet or (2) it could be miscommunications between lore authorities and developers.

    Both reasons are why I’m choosing not to take any side yet when it comes to the Light. It’s either confusing on purpose, or by design. When you have two sides contradicting each other and themselves; I think it’s best to look at it with open eyes and retain judgment for the time being. At least until we get better information; which hopefully doesn’t come from the Light or the Void themselves.

    “Believe me, we’re the good side.”

    Yeah, I’ll wait before jumping on either bandwagon lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I know, I said in that post that his bones hurt based on what the Light deems to be bad. And the Light would definitely thing that lying is bad. Xe'ra, Yrel, all of these holier than thou people who pretend they are so pure and noble, do you really think they would believe that lies are good?
    On second read through, you and I seem to agree that there is more to be discovered. I think we may just be disagreeing on the semantics.

    Cheers!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I know, I said in that post that his bones hurt based on what the Light deems to be bad. And the Light would definitely thing that lying is bad. Xe'ra, Yrel, all of these holier than thou people who pretend they are so pure and noble, do you really think they would believe that lies are good?
    I never really understood where the instnt belief that he actually has some supernatural ability came from.
    I know that in the book he mentions his bones hurt when he is doing certain choices, but i don't think that necesarily points to the light guiding him directly, i always read it as more that he has some mild PTSD from Garrosh dropping the bell on him, and that whenever he is making a choice that he thinks is morally wrong in any way his PTSD is triggered in the form of phantom pain.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jikate-Stormrage View Post
    I absolutely would. Ask yourself, are actions more indicative of character than words?

    I could say I love you and want what’s best for you, but if I am stealing from you, coercing you into doing what I want... is that really what’s best for you? Does it really show I care about you?

    In game we are given information that leads us to believe the Light is a force for good. But we are also given instances where it’s actions are not.

    I guess it comes down to how you and I both view or perceive the Lights intentions. Which is correct, words or actions?

    I personally feel actions speak far louder than words. But I also recognize that (1) I may not have enough information to really take a stance yet or (2) it could be miscommunications between lore authorities and developers.

    Both reasons are why I’m choosing not to take any side yet when it comes to the Light. It’s either confusing on purpose, or by design. When you have two sides contradicting each other and themselves; I think it’s best to look at it with open eyes and retain judgment for the time being. At least until we get better information; which hopefully doesn’t come from the Light or the Void themselves.

    “Believe me, we’re the good side.”

    Yeah, I’ll wait before jumping on either bandwagon lol.

    - - - Updated - - -



    On second read through, you and I seem to agree that there is more to be discovered. I think we may just be disagreeing on the semantics.

    Cheers!
    Because someone just because they are evil doesn't mean they wouldn't object to lying. These "holier than thou" villains like Xe'ra or Yrel are precisely those who would most frown upon lying and deceiving others.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

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  19. #19
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Worth noting someone can tell lies while thinking they're being honest. If you've been taught a lie, believe it to be true, and repeat the lie, you're still propagating a lie. A lot of people seem to think Anduin is some Machiavellian schemer who willingly lies to his people. I believe Anduin's lies were/are/shall be (depending on what they end up being) unintentional in nature, as is his sitting at 'the Master's table.' At the end of the day, Anduin is naive, and someone could easily manipulate him into pursuing a course of action that benefits the Void's goals and convincingly feed him lies or omit information that causes him to essentially lie when he relies on the incomplete information.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Worth noting someone can tell lies while thinking they're being honest. If you've been taught a lie, believe it to be true, and repeat the lie, you're still propagating a lie. A lot of people seem to think Anduin is some Machiavellian schemer who willingly lies to his people. I believe Anduin's lies were/are/shall be (depending on what they end up being) unintentional in nature, as is his sitting at 'the Master's table.' At the end of the day, Anduin is naive, and someone could easily manipulate him into pursuing a course of action that benefits the Void's goals and convincingly feed him lies or omit information that causes him to essentially lie when he relies on the incomplete information.
    This is quite reasonable, but too subtle for Danuser & co. It just ain't happening imo.
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