Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    10,807

    Forsaken and their numbers...

    Well... Now with Sylvanas gone and the Valkyrs gone from the ranks of the Forsaken, we are back at the Forsaken before Cata with their problem of lack of ways to regain their numbers, i assume that for the moment, they won't have much of a problem with that, as they recruited a decent group of Forsaken in the last war, but what will happen with them now?

    With the destruction of the Helm of Domination, will the Forsaken go for the same tactic they used before Wrath of the Lich King? Briging the now free Undead from the Scourge into the Forsaken, this is nothing more than a temporal solution but is better than nothing, though i wonder if Blizzard will show this in the pre-expansion patch or even mention this?

  2. #2
    i think it will be dealt with during the expansion. since spirit healers originate from the shadowlands and valkyr being tied to the ability to rez the dead, it looks like fertile ground to introduce new valkyr-like creatures.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    5,068
    As long as writers don't pull a Sunwell 2.0 (i.e. Velen cleansing the Sunwell at the end of BC, which took all the edge off BEs, turning them into a misplaced Alliance race), I will be fine with their current numbers.
    "This world is a prison!"

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Well... Now with Sylvanas gone and the Valkyrs gone from the ranks of the Forsaken, we are back at the Forsaken before Cata with their problem of lack of ways to regain their numbers, i assume that for the moment, they won't have much of a problem with that, as they recruited a decent group of Forsaken in the last war, but what will happen with them now?
    What makes you think they even want to? To my understanding, many Forsaken have little issue with their people eventually dying out, and some actually welcome it.

  5. #5
    They're going to Shadowlands, the land of death, if they come back empty-handed, that's on them.

    Then again, maybe next time they bolster their ranks, it will be with Lightforged Undead.

  6. #6
    The Shadowlands being busted wide open gives the Forsaken a new motivation. Defeat the Jailer and free souls from being damned to the Maw. That will ensure a peaceful transition to one of the proper Shadowlands realms when they die instead of languishing in fear of an eternity of darkness.

  7. #7
    This is why they used plague in the first place

    Fuck cares about honor when you’re surrounded by enemies, outnumbered 10 to 1 and every casuality is non replenishable
    Oh no! My limitless wealth and power is all I have! Boohoo, send me sympathy money

  8. #8
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    18,060
    I can see a recruitment drive happening among the Scourge now that the Helm has been destroyed and Bolvar seems to be rolling the Scourge into the Ebon Blade.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I can see a recruitment drive happening among the Scourge now that the Helm has been destroyed and Bolvar seems to be rolling the Scourge into the Ebon Blade.
    Isn't the pre event of the addon the scourge running rampant?

  10. #10
    Forsaken are more interesting in their semi-immortal monstrous incarnation ie, war3 through wrath.

    They are kind of crappy in the "unlucky sick human" that they are right now.

  11. #11
    In an ideal world, a Cult of the Damned/Zelling-style offer of immortality and a place in the Forsaken, jumping off of the Cataclysm/Cult of the Forgotten Shadow elements that view undeath as a benefit and a sort of transhuman condition. The Val'kyr are not the only ones who can raise the dead after all, they were just the most functional means and nothing should really prevent them from raising people with just necromancy. Others meanwhile would be perfectly fine with just wasting away.

    In the likely chain of events, it doesn't really matter. There'll be precisely as many Forsaken as are necessary to push the plot along and the Forsaken should in any case not be the race at most risk of recent failure, considering they went on a mass reproducing spree in Cataclysm, and even if they barely raised anyone in BFA since it'd be counter to Sylvanas's fucktarded plan, any number raised would be preferable to the attrition rate of people who need 10-18 years to raise a new warrior vs. a few minutes. Gnomes, trolls, even orcs and humans, should be at far greater risk if one actually considered population.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Minikin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    They're going to Shadowlands, the land of death, if they come back empty-handed, that's on them.

    Then again, maybe next time they bolster their ranks, it will be with Lightforged Undead.
    while that is an solution, please dont, i cant take another two years of "tHIs iSNt reaL HorDE!" "TrAITORz!" "AllIANce ForSaKEN"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    In an ideal world, a Cult of the Damned/Zelling-style offer of immortality and a place in the Forsaken, jumping off of the Cataclysm/Cult of the Forgotten Shadow elements that view undeath as a benefit and a sort of transhuman condition. The Val'kyr are not the only ones who can raise the dead after all, they were just the most functional means and nothing should really prevent them from raising people with just necromancy. Others meanwhile would be perfectly fine with just wasting away.

    In the likely chain of events, it doesn't really matter. There'll be precisely as many Forsaken as are necessary to push the plot along and the Forsaken should in any case not be the race at most risk of recent failure, considering they went on a mass reproducing spree in Cataclysm, and even if they barely raised anyone in BFA since it'd be counter to Sylvanas's fucktarded plan, any number raised would be preferable to the attrition rate of people who need 10-18 years to raise a new warrior vs. a few minutes. Gnomes, trolls, even orcs and humans, should be at far greater risk if one actually considered population.
    can you imagine though, if gnomes realized they are going extinct and they set out to solve that problem.....
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  13. #13
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    10,807
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    The Shadowlands being busted wide open gives the Forsaken a new motivation. Defeat the Jailer and free souls from being damned to the Maw. That will ensure a peaceful transition to one of the proper Shadowlands realms when they die instead of languishing in fear of an eternity of darkness.
    To be fair, i had hopes for something like this in Legion with Helya, basically an afterlife style Halls of Valor (you got your afterlife where you can spend your eternity in a good way but you can also come back to the land of the living if is needed), also it depends a lot on their desire to end up in any of this "proper afterlives", in the end, some of those are so Lich King that they Forsaken are quite likely to hate them (The Vampire one and the Lich ones)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    What makes you think they even want to? To my understanding, many Forsaken have little issue with their people eventually dying out, and some actually welcome it.
    To be fair, we only see that view at the start of the Forsaken starting area, not much later, and most of those that think like that end up joining a small faction of Undead that want to destroy the Forsaken, so they get annihilated.

    Is true that many do see their existance as a "problem" per se, and till CATA we were shown that the main reason they still exist was thanks to Sylvanas (as she gave them a reason to exist), but right now there's no much talk about that (IMHO that's weird, as now Sylvanas is gone, so unsure how the justify themselves, but i guess Lilian Voss is trying to make sure they find their reason)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by WKOstarion View Post
    i think it will be dealt with during the expansion. since spirit healers originate from the shadowlands and valkyr being tied to the ability to rez the dead, it looks like fertile ground to introduce new valkyr-like creatures.
    Why would the spirit healers help the forsaken is the real question.. I mean they probably want to help secure the shadowlands and with sylvanas already destroying the balance( nasty habbit to keep her corpes) this would be the same with forsaken going forward.. they ress people into undead state.

    I see a weird twist coming for the forsaken..

  15. #15
    The problem with Forsaken is the same as with DK and DH - their purpose ended with the end of Wotlk/Legion.

    The difference is that you can ignore DK and DH classes in future lore, but you can't ignore a whole race.

    This is a huge problem and underthought by Blizzard because current Forsaken as a playable race doesn't make any sense. Them joining the Horde in vanilla was already pretty absurd - yes, the Horde was the place for rejects/outcasts, but inviting the Forsaken was too much even at that time - it goes against anything the Tauren and Orcs belive. And how could they be 100% sure that all of the Forsaken broke from the LK's will? What if some of them were spies? But oh well...

    After Wotlk? Them still being in the Horde is only comparable to "many realities" on the scale of bullshit lore. There is no way, NO WAY Orcs and Tauren would accept Sylvanas raising the Forsaken. No. Fucking. Way. If it was Thrall who was presented this, if he asked Sylvanas "What is the difference between you and the Lich King now?" and she answered "Isn't it obvious, Warchief? I serve the Horde", she would get bitchslapped out of the Horde and burnt.

    But it is all a result of Blizzard not thinking about the future of this race and now we have to deal with them for gameplay reasons. Them being in a playable faction had no point in vanilla, was lore travesty after Wotlk, and now what? What other sophisticated reason they'll come with to keep Forsaken playable and relevant?

    Sorry Blizz, but you dun fucked.

  16. #16
    Horde DKs and necromancers, especially Forsaken DKs and necromancers, can help the Forsaken by raising new undead to be part of the forsaken.

    Wonder if at some point Forsaken taking corpses to be raised by a specialist would be the cultural equivalent of going to a doctor to help with childbirth.

    It really is a shame Valkyr are so rare that most undead don't have access to them to add to their families.

    It's also a shame a lot of Forsaken are still so traumatized they won't even consider traditional zombie bite infection and plague spreading as a way of adding to their numbers because they resent what happened and what they have become so much.

  17. #17
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    10,807
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Why would the spirit healers help the forsaken is the real question.. I mean they probably want to help secure the shadowlands and with sylvanas already destroying the balance( nasty habbit to keep her corpes) this would be the same with forsaken going forward.. they ress people into undead state.

    I see a weird twist coming for the forsaken..
    Well not all spirits healers are bound to the Kirian (in the end that's how we got Valkyrs), so we could have Valkyrs rejoin the Forsaken after the whole Sylvanas debacle is over, or they could find another way, i always wondered why the Forsaken have not pushed the idea of Undeath to the other races of the Horde, is true that not everyone will agree, but some will, heck, there was a whole cult for the sake of becoming undead and the only thing they were asking for was ETERNAL SERVITUDE AND YOUR SOUL (with the scourge), and there were people that were OK with it!, cause IMMORTALITY!, so i can see some members of the Horde actually being ok with the idea of becoming undead after being their death (Not all races, but i could see Goblins, some Trolls and Blood Elves accepting this)

  18. #18
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    18,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Isn't the pre event of the addon the scourge running rampant?
    I think so? I was short on time this morning and could have elucidated better: I would imagine some Scourge remain loyal to Bolvar, those get rolled into the Ebon Blade; others could join the Forsaken to give them a large supply of 'new blood,' helping them refind their roots as outcasts trying to make their way in the world, minus Sylvanas's cult of personality as a central cultural theme.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  19. #19
    The plight of the Forsaken is somewhat similar to the plight the Ren'dorei face, where they are not really a separate race and can only increase their numbers through unsavory ways. It will be intersting to see if and how Blizzard will continue this storyline.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Ashenvale.
    Posts
    722
    I'm not terribly up on the current attitudes behind the forsaken in general. But outside Sylvanas are we certain they actually want to continue expanding as a race? I remember a while back most were bemoaning their fate. While I can certainly understand continuing to exist and not wanting to be killed a second time. But in the end do they want actually want to build a sprawling undead kingdom or are they happy to merely exist? As we have seen with the Ren'dorei to be playable you can literally be a handful and remain as a playable race. So I guess are the Forsaken content as a subsistence race?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •