How Long Until Pay To Win Happens?

[JackWest]

This is golden. So many people cannot understand what "pay to win" actually is. Let me put it in simple words. Pay to win=obtaining power advantage that can only be obtained though that payment. Aka no other ways to get it. NOTHING in wow does that. The boosting guilds are doing, simply speeds up the process. Its there for everyone. Still not convinced? Name ONE item that gives you power boost, which you can ONLY get by paying irl money. Just one!

I can give you example: When you play in private server and the GMs give legendary items to "patrons" or such, after closing the original means of obtaining them.

[Justpassing]

This is golden. So many people cannot understand what "pay to win" actually is. Let me put it in simple words. Pay to win=obtaining power advantage that can only be obtained though that payment. Aka no other ways to get it. NOTHING in wow does that. The boosting guilds are doing, simply speeds up the process. Its there for everyone. Still not convinced? Name ONE item that gives you power boost, which you can ONLY get by paying irl money. Just one!

I can give you example: When you play in private server and the GMs give legendary items to "patrons" or such, after closing the original means of obtaining them.

The alteration toy from the store. I feel very powerful when I'm transmogrified into a boss

[JackWest]

The alteration toy from the store. I feel very powerful when I'm transmogrified into a boss

That actually made me laugh out loud. Thank you :P

P.S. Remember 2 things: good mog gives you 5% dmg increase, and pressing a button harder increases it's damage

[Heathy]

how do you win an mmo?

the game has wow tokens so its already pay to win, assuming various vague definitions of winning.

considering you can use gold to buy boosts or mounts, the ship has sailed.

lets go one step further, assuming you were dead set on 'paying to win' why bother throwing money at the game at all, just buy an account from some 3rd party. you win. assuming winning can also be defined as wasting the least amount of your life reaching the temporary 'end'.

[niztheundead87]

Your skill doesn't mean anything. P2w means buying power with real money. No matter how small that power is.

we are talking about wow not candy crush . if you are a noob in the game even if with high ilvl you will be shit

[Rialius]

I guess technically it is because you can buy gold with cash and runs with gold.

[W1shm4ster]

WoW Token are P2W? What timeline is this?

Also boosts for Gold, well, you can see it ingame as some really really rich dude wanting to experience the adventurer life for himself at least once and he paid some high profile adventurer with enough experience to get his adventurer ride.

Also to say some more to this: This ain't P2W if you pay for a boost with gold, since it is not Blizzard offering this, but people of the community. Would be different if Blizzard offered the boost for real money.

[iinverse]

A good player that buys gold and boosts will have an advantage over a good player that doesn't.

Lets compare two good players:
Player 1 will do it by himself.
Player 2 will do it for money (glod via tokens).

Lets assume that its expansion day 1:
Player 1 will level out his main in a day or so (because he is good, and for a 3-4 of last expansions leveling gets at about 8-10 hours).
Player 2 will forced to do the same, because on day 1 there are no boosters for gold! Or he can wait till boosters will available, level after for gold and lose to player 1.

After leveling: both players will be forced to grind rep/some sort of AP thing to unlock new skills and dungeons.
Player 1 will do it normally by himself.
Player 2 will be forced to do it by himself too, because there are no rep/AP thing boosters for gold!

This will continue to 1st week of raid starting.
You see, player 2 still can't buy any advantages for gold and forced to do all by himself.

Lets assume that both good players will do stuff till 1st week of raiding. If the both good, they will already unlocked all reps/stuff before raiding start (I usually do it this way, and I'm a pretty mediocre player). Because they both good, they already will have some gold collected from activity that will bу enough ot buy food/flasks (I usually have food by myself nand leveled my alc/herb toon right after, so I can have consumables for literally free).

Normal/hc raid week started.
Player 1 ready to go in raid, and get to it.
Player 2 ready to buy a raid run but... yep, therу are NO gold boosters in a week 1, because those boosters need to farm/gear their raid groups before starting sell runs. So Player 2 will be forced to go in raid normal way or wait till boosters will be available.

Raid week 2 started. Mythic unlocked.
Both players will do at about half of the hc progression usual way (no gold involved).
Player 1 will venture into mythic keys.
Player 2 is ready to buy key runs, but there are no gold key boosters on week 1!
And still no gold boosters for raid runs on week 2.

Raid week 3 started.
Player 1 capped weekly mythic key cash.
Player 2 will be forced to do it usual way, because still have no gold boosters! Or he can do nothing and wait till gold boosters becamу available and therefore lose to player 1.

Raid week 4 started.
Player 1 will finish hc raid and ready to go mythic raid.
Player 2 can wait till gold boostes will be available or will be forced to do hc usual way or will be lose to player 1 in terms of progression.

Raid week 5 started.
Player 1 will go mythic raid, continuing to do keys and hc raid every week. He already have curve, so it will be no problem to ahve group. He already have pretty good starting rio, because he do some kaey runs in a couple of weeks. So he will be no prob to get into key runs via party finder.
Player 2 will be forced to do exactly that player 1 did, or he will lose progress competition. Or he can wait till gold boosters will be available and already lose progress race to player 1.

I will not talk about buying BOE gear, because with all those titanforged shit almost noone will look at ilvl, almost all good groups will look on your raider.io progress, and you can't buy a good progress with gold on first weeks of expansion.

As you can see, gold has no influence on starting progress for good players.
Gold may be envolved to do some progress catch up later if you couldnt start playing at the beginning of xpac. But its definitely no p2w, because you already lost progress race. Of course, you can later buy gear (that means almost nothing), or some key runs for weekly chest, or even a curve, but a good player already have curve, full gear and good rio, so you just some sort of cathing up, but even with tons of gold you can't buy good progress (for example, mythic bosses, glad or 2k+ rio).

[Rendark]

we are talking about wow not candy crush . if you are a noob in the game even if with high ilvl you will be shit

Skill doesn't matter the fact that you can buy power, no matter how small make the token p2w.

[JackWest]

Skill doesn't matter the fact that you can buy power, no matter how small make the token p2w.

Do tell us what "power" that is, you can buy with irl money, thats otherwise unavailable to you. Thats what "pay to win" is by definition

Now, if you wanna argue about speeding gearing up with payments, or doing content you are otherwise not good enough to do, thats a different story, and its most certainly not "pay to win"

[Rendark]

Do tell us what "power" that is, you can buy with irl money, thats otherwise unavailable to you. Thats what "pay to win" is by definition

Now, if you wanna argue about speeding gearing up with payments, or doing content you are otherwise not good enough to do, thats a different story, and its most certainly not "pay to win"

Since you can buy gear with gold and gear gives you power then it makes the token p2w.

[JackWest]

Since you can buy gear with gold and gear gives you power then it makes the token p2w.

And that gear is available to you, without paying. Paying just speeds things up. So, by definition, it is NOT "pay to win"

And I am still waiting for you to tell me whats that "power" that you can only get with paying. You said gear, but that cannot be it, as its also available if you DONT pay

Dont make me wait too long, please

[Rendark]

And that gear is available to you, without paying. Paying just speeds things up. So, by definition, it is NOT "pay to win"

Can you buy power with real money? Yes, so it's p2w. Doesn't matter if you can get it with out paying. The fact that you can pay real money is what makes it p2w.

[JackWest]

Can you buy power with real money? Yes, so it's p2w. Doesn't matter if you can get it with out paying. The fact that you can pay real money is what makes it p2w.

I see. You have hard time grasping the concept of "pay to win". Here's what the definition of "pay to win" is: "Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game."

Now, if YOU personally, understand something else by "pay to win", that is completely fine, but doesnt make it any true, or make you correct

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I mean a whole lot of that can be accomplished with gold already. Gold can get you carried in raids, m+, BoEs, profession items, and all consumes and they they surely sell gold. Sounds like its already there.

[niztheundead87]

Since you can buy gear with gold and gear gives you power then it makes the token p2w.

You stills don't buy skill the same way that buying an F1 car doesn't make you a skilled driver . Go rage elsewhere

[pinelakias]

If they go p2w in a sub based game they will be driving nails into the coffin lid, so I doubt they would be that stupid unless they're doing this some time before the stop developing/shut down WoW.

Well, they already added mounts, pets, toys and cosmetic gear for extra $$$, hell, the deluxe (?) version of the next expansion also offers a pay-to-get questline, so the next logical step would be real gear for $$$. They already implemented all that sh!t in a game where you buy the game and pay monthly a subscription. I dont believe that they will ever implement real gear, but I'd be a fool to say it's a 0% chance to happen. I'd say 0.5%. Meaning, the day it happens, I will re-subscribe to try and get Invincible xD

[Rendark]

I see. You have hard time grasping the concept of "pay to win". Here's what the definition of "pay to win" is: "Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game."

Now, if YOU personally, understand something else by "pay to win", that is completely fine, but doesnt make it any true, or make you correct

That's not what p2w means. P2w is when you can buy power in game for real money. Doesn't matter if you can get it in game with out it.

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You stills don't buy skill the same way that buying an F1 car doesn't make you a skilled driver . Go rage elsewhere

Skill doesn't matter. What matters is real money for power. That's p2w.

[JackWest]

That's not what p2w means. P2w is when you can buy power in game for real money. Doesn't matter if you can get it in game with out it.

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Skill doesn't matter. What matters is real money for power. That's p2w.

Thats exactly what P2W means. Power ONLY obtainable through payments. You may WANT to be more than that, but it is NOT

BTW, did you know that if you say "unlimited power" 3 times in the mirror at midnight on full moon, Palpatine is gonna appear and give you all the loot in any game you are playing? Now, that IS pay to win. Checkmate atheists

[Kithelle]

Well, they already added mounts, pets, toys and cosmetic gear for extra $$$, hell, the deluxe (?) version of the next expansion also offers a pay-to-get questline, so the next logical step would be real gear for $$$. They already implemented all that sh!t in a game where you buy the game and pay monthly a subscription. I dont believe that they will ever implement real gear, but I'd be a fool to say it's a 0% chance to happen. I'd say 0.5%. Meaning, the day it happens, I will re-subscribe to try and get Invincible xD

FFXIV also has a store from what I understand but don't see people throwing fits over that...but then again some people love to hate on Blizzard just to hate on them these days.

I'm not saying it's impossible...just that it feels like doing so would be a last ditch effort to make some money before the game goes by-by or at least stops development.