How Long Until Pay To Win Happens?

[Rendark]

Thats exactly what P2W means. Power ONLY obtainable through payments. You may WANT to be more than that, but it is NOT

BTW, did you know that if you say "unlimited power" 3 times in the mirror at midnight on full moon, Palpatine is gonna appear and give you all the loot in any game you are playing? Now, that IS pay to win. Checkmate atheists

First i don't care what you think it means.

Second wtf are you talking about? How drunk are you?

[JackWest]

First i don't care what you think it means.

Second wtf are you talking about? How drunk are you?

Obviously you do, as you are keep telling me over and over again. And I am no drunk at all. You just strike me as a troll, as the alternative would be levels of ignorance I couldnt imagine exist, so I figured I can have some fun of my own. Two can play the game
And if you still wanna continue about what "pay to win" is, I can list you several difference sources backing up what I wrote, but then you'd have to bring some too

Merry christmas btw

[Paperfox]

I see ads in Trade quite a bit from guilds who are selling runs. So yes, p2w is already here and it is the players doing it, not Blizz.

[Heathy]

paying to win is the ability to convert real life wealth into in game wealth, that you wouldn't normally have if you weren't able to convert your real wealth into in game wealth.

you buy wow token,

you trade wow token for gold.

you use that gold to progress up the gear ladder, either through outright buying upgrades, or paying ppl to boost you.

this wouldn't be possible if you had to manually grind the gold and there was no way to convert real wealth into in game wealth.

personally i think wow's gold is not as important as it is in other games, it has many uses but money in wow isn't as important as it is in say, black desert. the main point here is that, if there were no wow tokens you wouldn't be able to get large sums of gold by swiping your credit card.

the game is already pay to win although just having the best gear and loads of gold doesn't necessarily mean you win anything. but for the sake of argument, lets say winning in an mmo was getting the best gear, well you could do that a darn sight easier if you can just keep buying wow tokens and buying top rolled boe's off the auction house. in a lot of ways a fresh character can go from 0 ilvl to relevant by doing this. combined with some effort of their own.


this doesn't even factor in account selling and black market trading. which they will likely never stop, due to the nature of it. even if they removed wow tokens you'd still be able to buy an account from somewhere with maxxed out chars. ie, paying to win. this is the same for anyyyyy game that has 3rd party account selling.

[JackWest]

The mental gymnastics some people make here to try and convince everyone(and maybe themselves) that paying for wow token so you can get a weekly cache boost on your new alt, makes the game "pay to win"(which by definition it is NOT, as that gear is also available outside any real money purchases) is insane. If they'd put those "skills" into real life, they'd make great lawyers I imagine

P.S. If you wanna water down the definition of "pay to win" to pretty much any purchases, then every multiplayer game is P2W. And then you know the saying, right? "if everyone is overpowered, no one is"

[Rendark]

Obviously you do, as you are keep telling me over and over again. And I am no drunk at all. You just strike me as a troll, as the alternative would be levels of ignorance I couldnt imagine exist, so I figured I can have some fun of my own. Two can play the game
And if you still wanna continue about what "pay to win" is, I can list you several difference sources backing up what I wrote, but then you'd have to bring some too

Merry christmas btw

Please do that. I would love to see them.

[Heathy]

there is no mental gymnastics, you are already able to use your out of game wealth to increase your in game position. the last time i checked they don't give wow tokens out for free, so someone buying 50 wow tokens a week is going to be making a fuck load more gold than someone who is buying none.

but the issue is that it really doesn't matter because most 'wins' in mmos are temporary and fleeting, what is winning one day is behind 6 months later. so you really have to ask how do you win an mmo, well imo you win by not playing anymore. that costs nothing and ultimately saves you money. so, the real win.

[JackWest]

Please do that. I would love to see them.

"In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers"
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

"Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game."
Source: https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...Pay%20to%20Win


Okay, I am surprised only two showed up on first page of google. Rest is fansites/forums arguing if advantages that are only gotten by payment are P2W, or any sort of power increase via direct/indirect payment is considered P2W. Which I seems like what we have here as well

[FelPlague]

Right.... Well ever since Activisions heavier influence on the game it does seem closer and closer. You didn't have these feels in early xpacs. But it's all good our lord and savior Bobby koktit will save the gaming world.

"The early expats"
What ones?
Vanilla had TCG, server transfer, and collectors edition to force people to pay real money for ingame goods and services then with tbc we got more services. More collectors, and more TCG stuff. Then wotlk, more services. More collectors. More TCG. And now store mount!

[Rendark]

"In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers"
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

"Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game."
Source: https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...Pay%20to%20Win


Okay, I am surprised only two showed up on first page of google. Rest is fansites/forums arguing if advantages that are only gotten by payment are P2W, or any sort of power increase via direct/indirect payment is considered P2W. Which I seems like what we have here as well

The first one is right but then second is wrong. Doesn't matter if you can get it with out paying.

[JackWest]

The first one is right but then second is wrong. Doesn't matter if you can get it with out paying.

I am willing to extend an olive branch here and say the definition of P2W is subjective, but then that also means the answer of OP's topic is also subjective, based on the definition of P2W a person has. To you any payment resulting in power increase is P2W. Example, buying token and using the gold for a weekly +10 boost on your newly leveled alt. However to me thats only limited to the circumstances where there is no other way of getting said power increase, but that real money payment. Example, getting legendaries in some private servers, where ONLY donations get you those items.

Alternatively, we can bash each other's heads in a wall, until someone gets enough, whether one definition of P2W is correct, or the other

[niztheundead87]

That's not what p2w means. P2w is when you can buy power in game for real money. Doesn't matter if you can get it in game with out it.

- - - Updated - - -



Skill doesn't matter. What matters is real money for power. That's p2w.

if you need your daily fix for rageporn go wacth some asmontard videos

[Rendark]

if you need your daily fix for rageporn go wacth some asmontard videos

I hate that guy. Why would i watch him?

[niztheundead87]

I hate that guy. Why would i watch him?

you match in logic

[Rendark]

I am willing to extend an olive branch here and say the definition of P2W is subjective, but then that also means the answer of OP's topic is also subjective, based on the definition of P2W a person has. To you any payment resulting in power increase is P2W. Example, buying token and using the gold for a weekly +10 boost on your newly leveled alt. However to me thats only limited to the circumstances where there is no other way of getting said power increase, but that real money payment. Example, getting legendaries in some private servers, where ONLY donations get you those items.

Alternatively, we can bash each other's heads in a wall, until someone gets enough, whether one definition of P2W is correct, or the other

I have said before the token is weird and i can see why people say it's not p2w.

[JackWest]

if you need your daily fix for rageporn go wacth some asmontard videos

Speaking of him, I saw some vid from august where he was trying to raid lead a pug into EP mythic. That was so painful to watch, but funny as well

[Rendark]

you match in logic

What does that even mean? Are you ok?

[KaPe]

The first one is right but then second is wrong. Doesn't matter if you can get it with out paying.

Again, by this logic, WoW was always pay to win and pretty much every MMO is as well. You could buy gold illegally. You could trade TCG. You could be friends with an officer in a high ranking guild. Hell, didn't a girl supposedly sell herself for Onyxia run or whatever it was? That was years before token was even a thing.

All of that could be done without WoW tokens and can happen in tons of other games. If anything, this doesn't work so well in WoW, since you can't pay to gain Essences or HoA levels. Also, it is dependant on other players, who will be better geared and skilled than you. You don't buy extra loot coins. You don't buy guaranteed gear. You don't get more loot from Mythic/PvP chest. Your "victory" is pretty hollow when compared to actual P2W games.

[Rendark]

Again, by this logic, WoW was always pay to win and pretty much every MMO is as well. You could buy gold illegally. You could trade TCG. You could be friends with an officer in a high ranking guild. Hell, didn't a girl supposedly sell herself for Onyxia run or whatever it was?

All of that could be done without WoW tokens and can happen in tons of other games. If anything, this doesn't work so well in WoW, since you can't pay to gain Essences or HoA levels. Also, it is dependant on other players, who will be better geared and skilled than you. You don't buy extra loot coins. You don't buy guaranteed gear. You don't get more loot from Mythic/PvP chest. Your "victory" is pretty hollow when compared to actual P2W games.

It's not p2w until the maker of the game starts selling the power and since blizzard is selling the token, the token is p2w.

[JackWest]