Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
... LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Nope, for most classes, the drop of Ilvl was too significant to carry the 2pc.
    Most or not, this problem existed, we know that blizzard acknowledged it the moment they buffed new set.
    We also know because at some point, they disabled old sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Before Legion, it wasn't even possible wear a 2pc and 4pc at the same time because Tier sets were 5 pieces sets.
    Well, except vanilla which had like 8,
    T6 from TBC which had 8,
    LFR blackrock foundry that had 6,
    HFC LFR set that had 6
    Dungeon sets

    And funny enough, blizzard disabled old sets when players found a way to utilize super old set in current content.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    It wasn't.
    The only thing they kept changing was the Ilvl for Mythic raiders.
    Yes it was, initially it did not have a cap and was more frequent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You seriously mean farming Manapearls to then buy Benthic Azerite pieces to scrap?
    Yeah, no thanks.
    But go on, how many Azerite pieces do you have to scrap in order to buy a specific piece after four weeks, i'm curious.
    Farming? No, waiting for emissary and blasting it with alts, buying tokens and sending it to main. Yes such method does exist and is viable way.

    According to my calculations to buy one piece of mythic you need to:
    Do Mythic raid couple of bosses each week
    Do Heroic raid each week
    Do emissaries on main that awards azerite gear
    Do highest possible M+, i guess 18 should be possible for mythic raider
    Farm couple of benthic gear on alts (buy tokens, use them on main, upgrade them ONCE and then scrap it) - you will have around 200 each.

    From mythic + alone you will have 96800
    2k for each heroic piece, you should get around 1-2 of them during a single run, unless you are really unlucky ( so 4 pieces is 8k)
    10k for each mythic piece (0-1) per run, lets say you get 2 during month = 20k
    = 124800
    Specific piece is 200k

    So you are missing 75200, which can be obtained by scrapping 376 tokens, or waiting 1-2 more weeks, or being very lucky on mythic raid, or getting table missions for TR. So yes, it is possible to get 445 in month. While it is rather easy in 6 weeks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Set bonuses having a power increase of like 20% was extremely rare.
    And then they very often got nerfed with the next tier.
    I said 10-20%. Yes 20% was rare but 10-15% was common.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Can you please stop lying?

    Check out bloodmallet, look at Azerite trait balance and scroll down for each class.
    Some of them have decent traits are like a 4k increase, whereas others sit around 1-2k.
    So bonus just gets cut at least cut in half.

    There are Azerites pieces out there at aren't even half as good as their BiS counterpart.
    It is you who is lying and don't know basic math. I know every single chart for every single dps class and difference between first 4-6 traits for most classes is around 1k dps which means it is 2.5% difference between stacking best trait vs stacking other traits.
    There are some exceptions like Ingeous Potential which is 5.7k while blightborne infusion/undulating tides is 4k
    So difference is 1.7k = 4.25% difference.
    And that is assuming you do 40k dps.

    People really need to learn math.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Just like most Azerite bonuses.
    And this is where you are wrong. Azerite gear gave me so much headache trying to code them into rotations, like no tier sets ever.
    Almost every class has 1-3 traits that does alter your rotation as opposed to having 1-3 specs per entire raid tier.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    If i didn't like a tier set, i could at least hope that the next tier will be better.
    Azerite gives you the middle finger for the rest of the expansion.
    No, we had new traits mid expansion while old ones were still around. That is a lie.
    Also with tier sets you were almost certain next one will suck - because vast majority was just a flat damage upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    They did, sometimes another talent better due to one, so you used that, which is okay.
    No they did not, go ahead and review all previous tier sets, count me how many of them did change playstyle. I did, now your turn.
    also making one talent more powerful via set bonus isn't changing playstyle - because it was already there,
    you just didn't use it simply because other talent was better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    By that you mean they stopped for most specs to even bother to balance traits.
    No, by that I mean in MoP difference between best and worst spec was like 30-50%. While now we are at 15-22% since legion till now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    That's your definition of it.
    Not mine, not a general one.
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...glish/flexible
    able to change or be changed easily according to the situation.
    Can you change set bonus? NO
    Can you change azerite traits? YES

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Don't like your Azerite traits?
    Fuck off (for the rest of the expansion)
    Don't like azerite traits? Go to reforger and change them.
    Don't like set bonus? Fuck off

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Yeah and people that hog over Azerite need to realize that it would take Blizzard multiple expansions to get it into a place where it may actually be decent.
    Let alone how limited the design is because it's spread over three pieces and thus needs to be constantly checked that any retarded rotations aren't possible.

    It's so much easier to design a good set bonus than a good Azerite trait that actually favors a new build, doesn't make other traits unviable and changes the playstyle.
    You need to realize, set bonuses weren't ever viable and possible in long run.
    That is why we got so many boring and uninspired, bland bonuses.
    Azerite is already decent, blizzard could do some numerical balance but even now, it IS decent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, i just enjoyed the moment, it's pretty simple.
    Because if you think about the game as a whole, almost anything doesn't have any meaning.

    And Tier sets simply were better for me to enjoy the moment, Azerite isn't.

    And i'm going to take @Beefkow advice and stop replying to you as this discussion is clearly going nowhere.
    You never enjoyed it, lets face it, all you do is whine, every single time blizzard changes something.
    And the reason for that is very simple, you want your youth back. They can't return that to you.
    Even if they continued with tier sets you would simply complain about something else.

    I know when something sucks like class balance or legiondaries or pathfinder or bugs within a game.
    But when they do something good like azerite, party sync, timewalking, secrects - i don't complain without doing in-depth analysis.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    He seems to do that a lot
    Rotation consists of having perfect sequence for every situation, that is the definition, closest of what you can imagine is simcraft APL which has all the checks implemented for each class.

    While your incorrect definition means that rotation is either AOE or single target.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Literally nothing to do with set bonuses, literally everything to do with titanforging
    Literally has everything to do with set bonuses and nothing to do with titanforging because I kept using base, non forged old tier 2 set. No regular gear could compare, not even titanforged one.

    And you misunderstood what he said. He said that the only option to upgrade older 2 set was to go to older raid and have it forge higher.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Literally nothing to do with set bonuses, literally everything to do with titanforging
    Titanforging enables it, so...you're using literally wrong. Yeah, they're cutting down on titanforging, and that's grand. Doesn't change that it highlighted the very worst of the problems with tier bonuses.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Doesn't change that it highlighted the very worst of the problems with tier bonuses.
    It highlighted problems that only existed in Legion due to the systems that they introduced in Legion (Titanforging, 6 set items instead of 5 allowing 2 set + 4 set stacking, horrible balancing with early tier set bonuses).

    Removing set bonuses to fix those issues is like cutting your toes off because the new shoes you got for xmas don't quite fit.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-12-26 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    -Snip-
    You need to understand that "some" people loved tier sets, that's it. It was part of wow for a long time and then suddenly it's gone, it sucks.

    Is that all you're obsessed with are facts, graphs, sims, and % math? Nobody cares.

    Side note, azerite armor compared to set bonuses are better no matter how you spin it, but it was supposed to substitute for artifact weapons, legiondaries, and tier sets, so in itself, the azerite armor failed.

    Azerite armor could've been something sick, but the execution was poor and some traits are garbage and not even worth picking throughout the entire expansion, *cough* blood dks *cough*.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2019-12-26 at 01:04 AM.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    It highlighted problems that only existed in Legion due to the systems that they introduced in Legion (Titanforging, 6 set items instead of 5 allowing 2 set + 4 set stacking, horrible balancing with early tier set bonuses).

    Removing set bonuses to fix those issues is like cutting your toes off because the new shoes you got for xmas don't quite fit.
    No. The correct analogy for what I'm arguing is not wanting to use the new shoes because they look and feel horrible.

  6. #186
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,884
    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    Why were tier sets better. Azerite is more flexible and allows for more customization. It also rewards players baaed on skill level. All of the problems with the system are fixables. It's the implementation not the idea that's bad in the case of azerite.
    I have to agree with you, the flexibility is what I prefer most.
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    It highlighted problems that only existed in Legion due to the systems that they introduced in Legion (Titanforging, 6 set items instead of 5 allowing 2 set + 4 set stacking, horrible balancing with early tier set bonuses).

    Removing set bonuses to fix those issues is like cutting your toes off because the new shoes you got for xmas don't quite fit.
    That is not correct analogy simply because it was one of many issues of tier sets. Biggest one was - they were not available to anyone but raiders.
    Removing tier sets is like cutting of your 6th toe on left foot (right one has 5) because rarely any shoes fit them both. If they fit left leg, they are too big for right one. If they fit right one they are too small for left one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    You need to understand that "some" people loved tier sets, that's it. It was part of wow for a long time and then suddenly it's gone, it sucks.

    Is that all you're obsessed with are facts, graphs, sims, and % math? Nobody cares.
    And you need to understand that feeling and nostalgia is not what makes game good. Everyone cares about facts and only clingy people can't let go of their obsession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Side note, azerite armor compared to set bonuses are better no matter how you spin it, but it was supposed to substitute for artifact weapons, legiondaries, and tier sets, so in itself, the azerite armor failed.
    Artifact weapon was scrapped, legiondaries were scrapped, they have nothing to do with azerite armor.
    And let me tell you why:

    1. Legendary system where everyone has everything from the start - so lets say waking essences from the start of legion:
    a. Is not a legendary at all - since they are basically craftable gear, everyone wears same bis pieces.
    b. It's a lesser evil - yes it would be better but
    c. It just locks you out from 1-2 gear slots after 2 months of expansion - you don't change best ones for a loong loooong time.
    d. There is no excitement anymore since you got best ones in 2 months
    e. There is no longer a reson to farm "everything" so no more carrot on a stick

    2. Artifact weapon was a failure because it was single most powerful piece of equipment in game:
    a. It easily overpowered all other gear combined as besides from being powerful gear it also gave you a lot of perks and tons of stamina
    b. It made iconic weapons common - everyone had ashbringer, doomhammer etc. That definitely broke immersion
    c. Since it was so powerful and spec specific you had to farm AP for each spec which made switching alts complete nightmare
    d. If that wasn't bad, you also had to farm 3 relics for each spec.

    Neck is a replacement for artifact weapons and have most of these issues fixed, its not as powerful anymore, is cross spec, doesn't take visual gear slot and doesn't make iconinc gear common. Still some issues persist but they are not game breaking at least for me.

    Azerite gear is direct replacement to tier sets with extra steps (which should have been removed patch *.1).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Azerite armor could've been something sick, but the execution was poor and some traits are garbage and not even worth picking throughout the entire expansion, *cough* blood dks *cough*.
    If azerite was something sick it would have been complete failure because next expansion you would have lost it, we would have the same backlash as we had now.
    People are blaming BfA for legion failures because gameplay became a lot slower once you lost all that power rental gear.

    Execution is really good except for visuals. Blizzard did fail on this one, they should have implemented ensembles like Trial of Valor ones:
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=257661/...tching-weapons

    That was a great system for visual sets.
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2019-12-26 at 10:41 AM.

  8. #188
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The forums
    Posts
    33,885
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    I hated that they got rid of tier sets. It’s one of the things I like the most about leveling a new class, seeing the xmogs I can collect.
    Definitely something I liked and still pursue occasionally. Guess raid tier after raid tier of people telling them "This is the worst shit ever" made them go "Fair enough, if you think so we won't bother you with it and even save some money. Everybody wins"

    Though I must admit that some of my favourite sets are indeed from way...way back, when we were still in the one-digit raid tiers like BWL, BT or Ulduar...and as a rule, I hardly found a druid set I liked...or a monk set. Hell...most of the time, my DKs wear the Archon transmog from their starting zone.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvaeres View Post
    I have to agree with you, the flexibility is what I prefer most.
    I was called a blizzard employee because I didn't join the butt hurt brigade. My post is shitting on blizzard as well they're so fucking out of touch with players that they can't even fix a broken system without creating new problems.

    I really want blizzard to stop /deleting shit and just try to understand why something doesn't work and fix it instead for once.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  10. #190
    Tier sets would be awesome. But let's not forget the fact that right now my wife is at home with my two sons, one of whom is autistic. That's why I propose a Freedom Dividend of $1,000 a month to every American citizen - if we took a slice out of every Amazon sale, digital transaction and introduced a VAT ontop of actually taxing the trillion dollar businesses that currently pay 0$ in tax, and that might solve our issue.

  11. #191
    I miss tier sets (the bonus's, not the look, can't give 2 shits what my character looks like) and raiding hasn't been the same to me without them, it was fun completing the set and getting that bonus, azerite just didn't have the same pull.

    Please bring back the tier sets

  12. #192
    People miss tier sets not because they were good, but because they liked them

    Azerite is better functioning in every single aspect, with less pieces. Will the community adapt? Unlikely.

  13. #193
    Herald of the Titans Battlebeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    2,830
    I hope tier sets never return. They were too mandatory to have and too hard to get since everyone want em.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    Actually tier sets and the bonuses were likely the very best thing in WoW. A huge nail in the coffin of WoW for me.
    Personally, I feel the opposite. I used to be a Mythic raider in my youth and always felt locked to those tier sets when I had the 2 or 4 piece bonus. You couldn't simply upgrade that slot as you'd loose the bonus and so that becomes a virtual non upgradable slot, loosing out on gear upgrades in favor of set bonus. Not until you collected enough of the next set bonus would you replace items, or, sometime the previous tier bonus was better so you might even go multiple tiers not upgrading gear in favor of slot bonuses.

    And then you have the whole debacle of is 2x 2 piece bonus better than a 4 piece bonus or can I get a 4 piece AND a 2 piece and if so that's the virutual mandatory gear requirement to be optimal.

    And you know if they made tier sets with bonuses again but then disabled the piece bonus when the new raid content came out it would be yet another thing people would burn them at the stake for. I, personally see tier set bonuses as a no win situation for players and blizzard.

    Now, I'm also not a huge fan of Azerite Gear either. It's got better over the life of the expansion and it also can change the way you play your character depending on the traits you have. Way too much RNG with azerite gear though. There needed be some way for you to grind/farm for the specific traits you would like.

    I'd like to see them give us something other than tier bonus's to go for. A couple ideas floating around in my head not really fleshed out would be:

    I like class sets for collecting purposes but it would be nice if the combination of set pieces gave us something to look forward to for completing the set. Perhaps additional cosmetic flair when you're wearing 2 pieces and more glowy glittery flair of some kind with 4 pieces and some magnificently cool animation with the full set.

    or Give us tier bonuses for each tier that build and adapt off each other. Tier 1 2 piece and 4 piece give x and y bonus. When Tier 2 comes out and you get a tier piece, you can wear it but it still counts for the previous tier, allowing you to keep your bonus. Once you have 2 pieces of the new tier your 2 piece bonus changes to the new tier bonus and your 4 piece remains as the previous tier. Once you get a 3rd piece of the set your bonus, not being majority of Tier 1, is the Tier 2 bonus even though you have 3 pieces out of 4 of the current tier but you are wearing 4 total tier pieces. Maybe the current tier bonus is not a full power and getting the 4th piece to round out the tier set gets you the full bonus. But this way you're not loosing out on set bonuses and you don't have to sit and stare at gear in your bag that is better but would break your set bonus so you don't/"shouldn't" wear it.

    This could perhaps also provide incentive to continue to farm and defeat bosses once the raid is cleared. And if the set "bonus" is more cosmetic in nature might continue to farm previous tiers even after the new tier is released.

    Just some thoughts, which I know are dangerous to post here in MMO, so proceed to ripping me apart.
    Last edited by talmar; 2019-12-27 at 02:57 PM.

  15. #195
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,884
    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    I was called a blizzard employee because I didn't join the butt hurt brigade. My post is shitting on blizzard as well they're so fucking out of touch with players that they can't even fix a broken system without creating new problems.

    I really want blizzard to stop /deleting shit and just try to understand why something doesn't work and fix it instead for once.
    Because the clowns on this site all believe their opinions matter. It's always been amusing. That's why 90% of the posts are more like blogs, and why clickbaity threads populate the site.
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Yup...because the best thing about WoW was unpredictable set bonuses that could be absolutely worthless or leaving you passing on upgrades because of how good they are!
    Tier sets, for the most part, were EPIC... and a major driving force for raiding. The kickazz weapon from the last bosses were the icing on the cake to get through it all.

    Sure there were some set designs/bonuses that were lackluster... but blame the devs not the mechanics. The same types of bonuses created for Azerite gear could have been developed for tier... but the devs got lazy on some classes... and mostly that was the class dev leaders' fault.

    And guess what? Then you knew what you were grinding for... now it's RNG drop chance of umpteen different varieties... many of which are not fun or very suboptimal. Crap that doesn't make your character feel more powerful in WoW. But hit your set bonuses and BAM! No thanks... you can keep grinding Azerite... and now worrying about negative aspects of Corruption.

    All yours man.

  17. #197
    As if classes weren't already dull this expansion, discontinuing one of the main visual identifiers of a class was just icing on the cake for how offputting doing anything in BFA has been for me.

  18. #198
    I wouldn't like to go back to tier bonus design, but I do think that end bosses (or even class specific bosses) should drop a class appearance set, like the Shaman set in SoO.

    Each set should have a different appearance for difficulty level as is normal now.

    The end boss should have a chance to drop them all, but if there's a humanoid boss that is a say a warlock, they will be the one to drop the warlock set and so on.

  19. #199
    Nope. Left with no set trash again.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Throsher View Post
    I wouldn't like to go back to tier bonus design, but I do think that end bosses (or even class specific bosses) should drop a class appearance set, like the Shaman set in SoO.

    Each set should have a different appearance for difficulty level as is normal now.

    The end boss should have a chance to drop them all, but if there's a humanoid boss that is a say a warlock, they will be the one to drop the warlock set and so on.
    I really like that idea. While I feel that Tier sets are implemented better through either legendaries or the awful start that was Azerite gear, the main thing that is missing is class identity and cosmetics. If the cheers about more customization options at BlizzCon is any indication on what the players want, it is appearances and cosmetics. Of course, people that do the harder content deserve some more options. Give a mythic only set that fits the theme of the raid would be cool.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •