Are We Getting Back Tier Sets in Shadowlands?

[Zenfoldor]

Tier sets are definitely better than anything else they've tried, imo. I wish they would come back. It would greatly increase my interest in the game, which at the current time....is at an all time low I'm sad to say.

[Uko]

I miss tier sets. Azerite is garbage I have been going for the same azerite traits pretty much the entire expansion with no variation. I liked how tier sets could shake up gameplay and make certain talents better than others. This expansion its been pretty much set it and forget it the whole time.

[Mozu]

Why were tier sets better. Azerite is more flexible and allows for more customization. It also rewards players baaed on skill level. All of the problems with the system are fixables. It's the implementation not the idea that's bad in the case of azerite.

Tier sets allowed for the potential for a complete change in gameplay each tier. I've been raiding on the same class for a decade now, and only seeing a significant change every expansion is not enough for me personally. So, unless they added brand new azerite skills every single tier that change your rotations/gameplay as significantly as some of the tiers sets have in the past, then they aren't even remotely comparable. Imo.

[kaminaris]

No need to debate. You are wrong. Learn from it and move on.

No, you are completely and utterly wrong.

1. Azerite can be obtained from various sources including vendor. This alone makes it vastly better system as it allows you to play alts without having to run raids.
2. Doesn't lock 4-6 pieces of gear for entire raid tier. Just 3 and they still can be changed depending on situation.
3. Is customizable to some extend.
4. Changes gameplay much more than tier sets. Most tier sets were boring flat damage upgrades.

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Tier sets allowed for the potential for a complete change in gameplay each tier. I've been raiding on the same class for a decade now, and only seeing a significant change every expansion is not enough for me personally. So, unless they added brand new azerite skills every single tier that change your rotations/gameplay as significantly as some of the tiers sets have in the past, then they aren't even remotely comparable. Imo.

No you are wrong, tier sets were not even close to how azerite affects rotation, this is based on 34/36 specs in game since MoP so 4 expansions now. For proof check old simcraft APLs.

[Mozu]

No you are wrong, tier sets were not even close to how azerite affects rotation, this is based on 34/36 specs in game since MoP so 4 expansions now. For proof check old simcraft APLs.

You unsurprisingly missed a giant part of my point. Tier sets changed every single tier. Having azerite that "changes your rotation significantly" doesn't mean anything if you're using the same traits for the entire expansion.

Imagine having a tier set that positively interacts with a trait you've never used before, and when used together a spell that is normally dogshit turns into your best ability.

A minor point is also deciding if 2/4 is better than 6/6. It adds even more depth to gearing that doesn't exist anymore. I know people are scared of depth though.

[Very rare pepe]

Mad not to bring them back but this is blizzard in 2019, who knows what these dumb devs are drumming up as a good reason to not bring them back.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Tier sets allowed for the potential for a complete change in gameplay each tier. I've been raiding on the same class for a decade now, and only seeing a significant change every expansion is not enough for me personally. So, unless they added brand new azerite skills every single tier that change your rotations/gameplay as significantly as some of the tiers sets have in the past, then they aren't even remotely comparable. Imo.

I know the problem is Azerite needs more things like blaster master. There no reason, They can't function like tier set bonuses. The problem isn't the idea but the people behind it. Tier set bonuses are individual inherited classes. With functions that are initiated when called and than added to an event. When the condition of the event are met the tier set effect is activated. I know unreal and wow use events heavily. A lot of mmo do apparently but I've only ever seen private server source code.

You can give each a event an id or a transform so that it only effects an certain object.

It's not a coding issue the ground work for it should already be there.

On private servers it works like this:

There is a character stat class but their code for this was outdated badly. They still use get set floats for individual stats which is bad and creates a lot more work later on. They should've made each stat it's own class and added a list within the class for modifiers. So you can add or remove a mod based on it. With stats having there own class you can recalculate within that class rather than writing functions for every little piece of armor added to the game. Each piece of armor has an id based on whether the item is equipped or deequipped you'd lower or raise the int. You could put a switch on the item based on the current int and when the function is triggered cause a recalculation.

Tier sets and Azerite kind of require similar logic the base is there it's a drive/motivation issue.

[Maudib]

That's funny cuz I'm totally the opposite lol, I enjoy the class changes between xpacks, sure sometimes it's for the worse but I use this as an opportunity to play something else entirely and it really makes the game feel fresh again.

I really never enjoyed getting a set piece and being forced to not use it because it would break my previous set bonus, effectively nerfing me, that concept is some next level idiocy IMO. And then the next week you don't get a second piece so you're stuck a minimum of 14 days without being allowed to use the new item you got a very long time ago, I mean wtf kind of bullshit is that?

As opposed to slapping on whatever drops because it has a higher iLevel? Yuk. No thanks... having a piece of tier in my bank/bags waiting on the next one to drop to make it "official"? Sweetness. It's part of progression... Just because I got one piece and can't wear it yet... doesn't make it bad... It just means I was one step closer to getting my reward. So much better than getting some crappy rng drop, but wear it because it was .001% better.

No... having a set to go after... set goals, certain bosses I know had the potential to make my week? Loved it.

Gear now is absolutely boring.

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No, you are completely and utterly wrong.

1. Azerite can be obtained from various sources including vendor. This alone makes it vastly better system as it allows you to play alts without having to run raids.
2. Doesn't lock 4-6 pieces of gear for entire raid tier. Just 3 and they still can be changed depending on situation.
3. Is customizable to some extend.
4. Changes gameplay much more than tier sets. Most tier sets were boring flat damage upgrades.

without having to run raids....
an entire raid tier...
customizable...
boring...

Very telling. Antisocial, impatient, unable to focus, entitled.

The game has changed to appeal to people like you... which is why people like me don't play it any more. It's not an MMO any more... it's just a first person ARPG.

And that;s cool for those who want that... it's just not a rich, engaging MMORPG like it used to be.

[Kralljin]

who knows what these dumb devs are drumming up as a good reason to not bring them back.

I think it's pretty simple: Unclear source.

It seems that Blizzard wants to move away from raiding being the best source of gear, Tier sets usually dropped in raids.
If you bring back Tier set bonuses, you'll have PvP'ers and M+ people complaining that "they have to raid".

Azerite in BfA came from a vendor with an M+ Currency, dropped in raids or you could one out of the weekly PvP chest.

I think that's the real reason, they're just not saying because they don't want to incite a flame war within the community.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

As opposed to slapping on whatever drops because it has a higher iLevel? Yuk. No thanks... having a piece of tier in my bank/bags waiting on the next one to drop to make it "official"? Sweetness. It's part of progression... Just because I got one piece and can't wear it yet... doesn't make it bad... It just means I was one step closer to getting my reward. So much better than getting some crappy rng drop, but wear it because it was .001% better.

No... having a set to go after... set goals, certain bosses I know had the potential to make my week? Loved it.

Gear now is absolutely boring.

- - - Updated - - -



without having to run raids....
an entire raid tier...
customizable...
boring...

Very telling. Antisocial, impatient, unable to focus, entitled.

The game has changed to appeal to people like you... which is why people like me don't play it any more. It's not an MMO any more... it's just a first person ARPG.

And that;s cool for those who want that... it's just not a rich, engaging MMORPG like it used to be.

You don't put something on because of a higher ilvl in bfa. Secondary stats matter the ilvl differences has to be high enough. Some items have extra effects like the staff from azshara that mmake them even better regardless of item level. If your gonna criticise a game at least attempt to understand it.

[CrawlFromThePit]

As opposed to slapping on whatever drops because it has a higher iLevel? Yuk. No thanks... having a piece of tier in my bank/bags waiting on the next one to drop to make it "official"? Sweetness. It's part of progression... Just because I got one piece and can't wear it yet... doesn't make it bad... It just means I was one step closer to getting my reward. So much better than getting some crappy rng drop, but wear it because it was .001% better.

No... having a set to go after... set goals, certain bosses I know had the potential to make my week? Loved it.

Gear now is absolutely boring.

Tier drops are RNG drop like any other. If you hate crappy RNG drops you also hate tier sets because they drop the exact same way that you hate. You also put them on because they have higher ilvl, the only way to remove this concept is making the new tier the same ilvl than the older tier. Acting like there's big cerebral activity going on when deciding what item to put on with tier sets is a falacy, the new tier is better just don't break your previous bonus without getting a new bonus, it's pretty much that simple, it's not deep RPG customization or player choice or unique itemization. Tier sets were absolutely straight forward, the only practical difference with the azerite armor system is that tiers provide no choices, no bonus, no progression beyond getting them. Tier sets provide a lot less and nothing more. Those are mathematical facts.

[david0925]

Azerite pieces definitely provide more customization even if there is a BIS for most situations, as every item enabled its own set of powers as opposed to having multiple pieces of gear that did nothing special own their own. The most customization you can do with tier sets are mix and match bonuses from different sets, and not only does that lock your slots for 4-6 items, Blizzard flat out discouraged mix and match by constantly nerfing old set bonus before they removed them altogether. The customization comes with its own issue, but as far as giving you more freedom on what to pick, this is at worst the same as tier set (assuming BIS is clear for all situation, and that still only locks you into 3 slots) and better in all other situations.

With that said, tier set did provide a large incentive to raid, so it really comes down to whether you think raiding should provide unique power-ups not found in other places. BFA is the first expansion without tier bonus, as well as mostly bland trinkets until AEP, so there's a lot less incentive to raid for gear. Question is really where you stand on "needing" to raid for power-ups.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Azerite pieces definitely provide more customization even if there is a BIS for most situations, as every item enabled its own set of powers as opposed to having multiple pieces of gear that did nothing special own their own. The most customization you can do with tier sets are mix and match bonuses from different sets, and not only does that lock your slots for 4-6 items, Blizzard flat out discouraged mix and match by constantly nerfing old set bonus before they removed them altogether.

With that said, tier set did provide a large incentive to raid, so it really comes down to whether you think raiding should provide unique power-ups not found in other places. BFA is the first expansion without tier bonus, as well as mostly bland trinkets until AEP, so there's a lot less incentive to raid for gear. Question is really where you stand on "needing" to raid for power-ups.

Not to mention you can stack certain bonuses something tier sets never allowed. The problem is on blizzards end not ours. They're going to gut a system rather than control for why it was a bad idea. Because they don't understand their own game.

[Shelly]

You unsurprisingly missed a giant part of my point. Tier sets changed every single tier. Having azerite that "changes your rotation significantly" doesn't mean anything if you're using the same traits for the entire expansion.

Imagine having a tier set that positively interacts with a trait you've never used before, and when used together a spell that is normally dogshit turns into your best ability.

A minor point is also deciding if 2/4 is better than 6/6. It adds even more depth to gearing that doesn't exist anymore. I know people are scared of depth though.

Spoken like someone that never got a tier set that was so good you couldn't replace it until you had 4 piece of the next tier or sometimes even the tier after.

Or someone that never had bad luck and was stuck with just chest and the rest just never dropped.

Or someone whose BiS conflicted with a tier piece so you had to choose between 4-piece or only 2 with off-set.

Tier wasn't terrible and oh my god do I miss class based armor visuals so much, but it wasn't a perfect system and Azerite has been a good iteration on it.

In all likelihood they'll continue Azerite going forward in some manner, whether it be part of the covenant or the soulbind system or stand alone they haven't said yet or probably even decided.

[Nynax]

Yeah, they never made more than 1 set at a time, tier sets never came with a choice and it always felt extremely bad when you were forced to move to a set with a gameplay you don't enjoy just because it's stronger.

If they revamped the system to offer different bonuses, or keep every set relevant, even from previous xpack, through an upgrade feature and let people choose what they want or mix and match things for bonus of different sets at once, I think there's something cool to do in there. But just forcing everyone into the same thing with zero choice is so much worse than the azerite armor concept.

Isn't this....exactly what everyone who cares about power has to do anyway? It just happens with balance changes. You never really know if, say, Glacial Spike is going to be THE talent choice this tier.

[Mozu]

Spoken like someone that never got a tier set that was so good you couldn't replace it until you had 4 piece of the next tier or sometimes even the tier after.

Or someone that never had bad luck and was stuck with just chest and the rest just never dropped.

I have experienced all of these things, even as recently as legion, but many times before that. I am not an impatient player, so I view these as things that are good to work towards / look forward to. The feeling you get when you finally see that drop you've been hoping for and your power increases by a significant amount because you hit a certain tier bonus is incredible. Increases are incremental these days aside from maybe trinkets. The difference is night and day.

I do understand wow is catering to people who need everything right now, which is why I play classic these days. I'll play shadowlands, but my expectations are extremely low and I seriously doubt they will be able to retain players like me.

Or someone whose BiS conflicted with a tier piece so you had to choose between 4-piece or only 2 with off-set.

I specifically said this is a good thing that added depth to decision making in gear in the last part of my post you quoted. Lmao.

[Garymorilix]

Azerite gear is one of the best things in BfA.

Tier sets are lame af, binary upgrades with zero thinking that remove alternative choices and force you to farm exactly one boss for eternity.

No tier sets thanks you.

[kranur]

I hated that they got rid of tier sets. It’s one of the things I like the most about leveling a new class, seeing the xmogs I can collect.

I was under the impression that they might consider adding visual sets back but not the bonuses. I would like that, bonuses can stay a relic of the past.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Isn't this....exactly what everyone who cares about power has to do anyway? It just happens with balance changes. You never really know if, say, Glacial Spike is going to be THE talent choice this tier.

Yes and that sucks too. I've switched toon before because of bad balancing forcing a boring gameplay on a spec. Both equally bad problems. At least Azerite armor provide a choice to fall back on, patches and tier sets don't, you just have to bend over and accept the one thing they force on you.

[Shelly]

I was under the impression that they might consider adding visual sets back but not the bonuses. I would like that, bonuses can stay a relic of the past.

I'd like to at least see class auras you could earn to add to any helm and shoulder set.

Like red, green and ice white for DKs.

Gold for Paladins.

Warm greens for Monks.

Green fire for Warlocks and demon hunters.

Red, blue and purple for mages.

Starlight sparkles for Druids.

Not sure what for Warriors or Hunters, but you all get the idea. Something to add that bit of flare that says this armor belongs to a specific class and spec.