Are We Getting Back Tier Sets in Shadowlands?

[mickybrighteyes]

personally i don't want to go back to tier sets if the gear of a given tier is just going to wind up getting tossed out as you get into the next raid.

Part of what i DID like about the azerite business was that effects that would make up the 'tier set bonus' were the effects they granted and they could appear in multiple gear ranges.

[Recovery]

Yeah, they never made more than 1 set at a time, tier sets never came with a choice and it always felt extremely bad when you were forced to move to a set with a gameplay you don't enjoy just because it's stronger.

If they revamped the system to offer different bonuses, or keep every set relevant, even from previous xpack, through an upgrade feature and let people choose what they want or mix and match things for bonus of different sets at once, I think there's something cool to do in there. But just forcing everyone into the same thing with zero choice is so much worse than the azerite armor concept.

can you please provide an example of when a tier set made you play your spec in some way you wouldnt have played it ordinarily.. Im interested in this.

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personally i don't want to go back to tier sets if the gear of a given tier is just going to wind up getting tossed out as you get into the next raid.

Part of what i DID like about the azerite business was that effects that would make up the 'tier set bonus' were the effects they granted and they could appear in multiple gear ranges.

So youd rather have azerite gear, that you just keep updating the ilvl on through mytihic+ dungeons all expansion?

[Traveler Voltin]

despite them saying it was stupid to get rid of them. we are not getting them back

[CrawlFromThePit]

can you please provide an example of when a tier set made you play your spec in some way you wouldnt have played it ordinarily.. Im interested in this.

When brewmaster monks went from the very fun self healing set to the bullshit dodge set with no self healing. I enjoyed using expel harm for something noticeable instead of having to focus on the dodge thing to cheese some mechanics.

It also happened in older xpacks but off the top of my head I can't remember the exact detail of what changed I would have to go over sets of what I played back then.

[SoulSoBreezy]

I'd rather see interesting items that perform the same function (class centric bonuses) that aren't restricted by requiring two of something in order to activate.
Basically bonuses without the set requirements. It'd let itemization be more flexible and put more focus on synergy as opposed to set completion.

[schwank05]

If they do the Azerite garbage or magical Artifact style weapon system again Im done with the game for good. Just Bring back Tier Sets and have Legendries drop off Bosses again as they should be. The endless AP grind is a joke and I despise the model. I want to log on for 2-3 do some stuff then log off I don't want to be gated by some shit game design.

[Ticj]

I'd rather see interesting items that perform the same function (class centric bonuses) that aren't restricted by requiring two of something in order to activate.
Basically bonuses without the set requirements. It'd let itemization be more flexible and put more focus on synergy as opposed to set completion.

So....legion legendaries?

[Mardux]

Why were tier sets better. Azerite is more flexible and allows for more customization. It also rewards players baaed on skill level. All of the problems with the system are fixables. It's the implementation not the idea that's bad in the case of azerite.

Why is azerite better? Looking for objective facts, not the opinions you keep repeating.

Azerite is about as flexible as tier sets were. Even less in some cases being as there are only 3 azerite slots vs 6 tier slots. People still target the same pieces, they just target them at a higher ilvl.

It rewards players based on skill? We're clearly playing different games if that's the case since most azerite traits are just passive shit.

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I know the problem is Azerite needs more things like blaster master. There no reason, They can't function like tier set bonuses. The problem isn't the idea but the people behind it. Tier set bonuses are individual inherited classes. With functions that are initiated when called and than added to an event. When the condition of the event are met the tier set effect is activated. I know unreal and wow use events heavily. A lot of mmo do apparently but I've only ever seen private server source code.

You can give each a event an id or a transform so that it only effects an certain object.

It's not a coding issue the ground work for it should already be there.

On private servers it works like this:

There is a character stat class but their code for this was outdated badly. They still use get set floats for individual stats which is bad and creates a lot more work later on. They should've made each stat it's own class and added a list within the class for modifiers. So you can add or remove a mod based on it. With stats having there own class you can recalculate within that class rather than writing functions for every little piece of armor added to the game. Each piece of armor has an id based on whether the item is equipped or deequipped you'd lower or raise the int. You could put a switch on the item based on the current int and when the function is triggered cause a recalculation.

Tier sets and Azerite kind of require similar logic the base is there it's a drive/motivation issue.

Word salad 101

[kaminaris]

without having to run raids....
an entire raid tier...
customizable...
boring...

Very telling. Antisocial, impatient, unable to focus, entitled.

The game has changed to appeal to people like you... which is why people like me don't play it any more. It's not an MMO any more... it's just a first person ARPG.

And that;s cool for those who want that... it's just not a rich, engaging MMORPG like it used to be.

Bullshit, I've been mythic raiding since MoP (heroic back then), we did tons of raids since then, tons of M+ in BfA, we hang around practically every day.
Antisocial? Giga bullshit
Impatient? Hiper mega turbo bullshit, 300 wipes is nothing
unable to focus? whut? you jokin?
entitled? I have no slightest interest in gear at all, bullshit.

You literally could not be further from truth. While having no real arguments.
Tier sets are garbage compared to azerite gear.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Why is azerite better? Looking for objective facts, not the opinions you keep repeating.

Azerite is about as flexible as tier sets were. Even less in some cases being as there are only 3 azerite slots vs 6 tier slots. People still target the same pieces, they just target them at a higher ilvl.

It rewards players based on skill? We're clearly playing different games if that's the case since most azerite traits are just passive shit.

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Word salad 101

There are 2 major and that can be expanded... 6 versus the 4 piece bonus we had before. They can expand it to 8 or 10 if they wanted to as well. They target the same piece because everything is passive and poorly designed. It does u need to do 3 mythic +10 or clear actual mythic raids to get 445 azerite. You need 2k rating + for 445 azerite.

It also works to give players something to passively work towards on bad weaks with the neck system(which needs tweaks). There nothing that's stopping them from expanding the system to work like tier set bonuses other than effort. I gave a simple explanation of the base code needed for it to work and a tier set bonus system requires at least the barebones of it.

Every trait is it on class with an id that is place on a list and check when an item is equipped or removed. There is than a switch that says if 1 do x if 2 do y. It will recalculate values when triggered as well.

[Jastall]

Spoken like someone that never got a tier set that was so good you couldn't replace it until you had 4 piece of the next tier or sometimes even the tier after.

Or someone that never had bad luck and was stuck with just chest and the rest just never dropped.

Or someone whose BiS conflicted with a tier piece so you had to choose between 4-piece or only 2 with off-set.

Tier wasn't terrible and oh my god do I miss class based armor visuals so much, but it wasn't a perfect system and Azerite has been a good iteration on it.

In all likelihood they'll continue Azerite going forward in some manner, whether it be part of the covenant or the soulbind system or stand alone they haven't said yet or probably even decided.

IMO tier effects should be replaced by special enchantments, that you obtain via boss kills and/or a currency, and can remove and re-apply for a moderate cost. You would be limited to two, and different content can drop different effects.

Class-based armor should absolutely come back however. Tying set appearance to the raid has been a failure so far, with a couple exceptions. Whereas I have to go back to Mists to find a raid tier that didn't have at least one or two great looking sets among the dozen.

[Ielenia]

They said nope. At least not at the start, but I doubt they are going to put them back in halfway through an expansion.

Wasn't WoD and Legion like that? The first raid available in the expansion (Highmaul & Emerald Dream, respectively) did not have any tier sets.

[crakerjack]

It's so early in development that they honestly don't know. They did confirm that the first content patch/raid won't have tier sets, but that there's a chance the following patch 9.1 and on could have tiers. They're scared of adding tier sets back because they don't want people to feel forced to have specific pieces or feel the need to raid in general. If someone wants to be competitive in the mythic+ scene, they'll have to do raids for tier gear. My suggestion would be to make it so tier set bonuses don't work outside the raid. That's currently how benthic gear works and I wouldn't be surprised if this is blizzards way to testing the waters on how to bring back tier gear. They don't want it to feel like a necessity, but they understand how tier gear is essential to raiding.

[Captain Proton]

I sure loved getting a new piece of Azerite Armor just to have to grind to unlock the same traits I already had in my previous piece of armor.

Azerite Traits changing based on spec? Nah, lets make them farm MORE armor if they want to change specs. If they don't want to do that, lets just make it prohibitively expensive to change the azerite traits so they'll have to!

And LOL at Azerite traits changing your rotation more than tier sets. Azerite traits are a joke compared to tier set bonuses. Azerite Armor was a dumpster fire. Tier sets were infinitely better.

[Yunaqt]

I always found changing my gameplay to be interesting... not forced. Doing it with tier sets that motivated me to play differently in order to "git gud" was exciting.. and if it was something I didn't enjoy as much, I knew it was only a few months until the next tier came along with a new set to aim for.

What I hate is them changing the classes every single expansion so you are forced to play one spec or another the ENTIRE expansion.

Nah... I'll take tier gear any day over RNG gear any day. Give me set goals to achieve and allow me to bask in the glory of satisfaction and uberness until the next tier comes along. Stair stepping achievements is so much better than a gradual line you cannot ever feel like a milestone is achieved.

Instead they now chnage each

How is azerite RNG? it's predetermined what traits are on the pieces before you get them.

Personally don't care which, i'm fine with both tier and azerite -- But gear's not a big driving factor for why I play the game (if it was I prob wouldn't play a healer).

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And LOL at Azerite traits changing your rotation more than tier sets. Azerite traits are a joke compared to tier set bonuses. Azerite Armor was a dumpster fire. Tier sets were infinitely better.

Except when you were screwed over in Legion and wearing Nighthold tier still in Antorus because of how bad the following set was

[ChronoSul]

Wasn't WoD and Legion like that? The first raid available in the expansion (Highmaul & Emerald Dream, respectively) did not have any tier sets.

MOP was also like that. So really it could be the same for Shadowlands

[Kralljin]

They did confirm that the first content patch/raid won't have tier sets, but that there's a chance the following patch 9.1 and on could have tiers.

They said no tier sets in Shadowlands, but cosmetic class sets are possible.

They're scared of adding tier sets back because they don't want people to feel forced to have specific pieces or feel the need to raid in general.

It's my guess as well, but an explanation that i dislike.
I'm a raider, i also need to engage in M+ at the release of every raid tier, because of M+, my entire gear from the previous tier goes into the trash bin within 1-2 days.

On the other end, "competitive" M+ player need Mythic raiding anyway because it's the only reliable source of highend gear.

This design of "things do not work in certain areas" is just bad, it's just overly restrictive and unintuitive.
They should make up their minds how to design a fun game and not constantly go "but if we do that, player group X will be upset!", this catering towards literally every interest group within the community has completely hollowed out this game.

Some people didn't like the RPG aspect in the game => Blizzard removed parts of it.
Some people didn't like the MMO aspect in the game => Blizzard removed parts of it.

[Gurahk]

We might not get tier bonuses back, but cosmetic tier sets might be coming back. The reason they aren't coming at the launch is because the armor designers are making the covenant armor, so if I had to guess we might get them back mid-way through the expansion.

[mickybrighteyes]

So youd rather have azerite gear, that you just keep updating the ilvl on through mytihic+ dungeons all expansion?

Either you're not getting tier from 5mans anyways so you'd have less chances at the loot or you'd still be running mythic+ dungeons for upgrades anyways. I still like the option to have my 'tier bonus' on other items than just one set of gear and then feel pigeonholed into keeping that going into the next tier because the the 4/5 is just that amazing.

[SoulSoBreezy]

So....legion legendaries?

Without the upgrades that slot locked them for an expansion, without the lack of control on how you obtained them, with an appropriate artstyle...yeah