[Lore]Blizzards big mistakes - When did it all start going wrong? And what caused it?

[Thibble]

For me (highly subjective opinion ofc) its that whole titan lore. Before it was more or less "down to earth" stories but who were connected to ICONIC VILLIANS. Draenor, Arthas, Deathwing were purely made out of love for the warcraft franchise (even WoD). MoP was great for being creative and something new, but then they started with that titan stuff... for me they lost it there, I have zero interest in all that overplanetary stuff... I loved Legion because of the legion invasion story connection to warcraft games but found the titan ending rather meh... and then BfA is centered around that... zzZZzzzz...

[Soon-TM]

For me (highly subjective opinion ofc) its that whole titan lore. Before it was more or less "down to earth" stories but who were connected to ICONIC VILLIANS. Draenor, Arthas, Deathwing were purely made out of love for the warcraft franchise (even WoD). MoP was great for being creative and something new, but then they started with that titan stuff... for me they lost it there, I have zero interest in all that overplanetary stuff... I loved Legion because of the legion invasion story connection to warcraft games but found the titan ending rather meh... and then BfA is centered around that... zzZZzzzz...

I can share this sentiment. Titans are the Warcraft version of SC's Xel'Naga, aka a glorified Deus ex Machina factory that comes in handy for writers who fail to craft more "down to earth", well thought, planned in advance, coherent stories because MUH ROOL F KEWL. It isn't even cringey at the end of the day... just supremely boring.

[Flurryfang]

Well, the last good lore thing we had was back in MoP, so i guess the start of WoD?

Like, some parts of Cata and MoP were pretty bad, but they also had some really amazing lore moments. Much of the new story in the revamped cata zones were really good and even in the new ones, with my favorite being Twillight Highlands. MoP was a bit of a mess with Garroshes fall from grace, but then we had Wrathion and Anduin, which was pretty amazing. The character of Wrathion is kinda unique, as they really fleshed him out in Cata and MoP, and actually let him have development during an expansion. They really did some good work there.

Then came WoD, and the terror of Khadgar.... Like, i think the opening scene of WoD is a good reflection of WoD lore. We go through the gate with 20+ named characters, and without knowing them at all, they are killed in about 5 min. They keep introducing new characters and quickly putting them away again. Khadgar is supposed to be our new Wrathion, our new player leader in the battle against the enemy, yet he is soo boring and empty as a character. Like, he literally poofed into reality as a character with the start of WoD, with no introduction or anything.

WoD tries to make more Wrathions and Anduins, but fail to go through with any of them. Yrel has a good start, but is not fleshed out at all. Durotan is a bland, steriotype of a character and even the enemies, Gul'dan, gets nothing more than evil laughter and cliche bad guy moments.

After WoD, they never really got back to creating characters again. They never really spent time on characters, developing them or following through with things. In BFA, we do follow characters in the War Campaign, but we get to interact with them so little, that not much story is actually created. Instead of seeing the evolution of Sylvanas from Warchief to Betrayer, she is gone for the most of the expansion, only coming into view to do short mini talks with the players, being a little "bad/evil" and then quickly disappearing again.
In an expansion where we were supposed to focus on faction development, nothing really happened. Characters stayed pretty much the same, we got back to the status-quo as it was in Legion and nobody can feel the difference.

[Airwaves]

Pretty sure it's a lack of lead writers and lore masters. ESO as an example has a few guys called lore masters who only job is to make sure ever aspect of the universe works together. And Swtor (The best story driven mmo) has lead writers who make the outlines of the future stories so it all works.

[Soon-TM]

Pretty sure it's a lack of lead writers and lore masters. ESO as an example has a few guys called lore masters who only job is to make sure ever aspect of the universe works together. And Swtor (The best story driven mmo) has lead writers who make the outlines of the future stories so it all works.

In the meantime, we're stuck with incompetent hacks like Afrasiabi, Danuser or Golden

[kranur]

I can share this sentiment. Titans are the Warcraft version of SC's Xel'Naga, aka a glorified Deus ex Machina factory that comes in handy for writers who fail to craft more "down to earth", well thought, planned in advance, coherent stories because MUH ROOL F KEWL. It isn't even cringey at the end of the day... just supremely boring.

Exactly. And not only is it boring and uninteresting as fuck, they have also overplayed it the shit out of them, to the point where you can't walk 30 yards without stepping on some shit titan megaforge of death constantly reminding you that everything you do is just pointless and you're just some insignificant bug.

Not to mention they don't make any sort of sense. Titans able to walk on another titan's nascent body cause why the fuck not and then being the size of planets but only when it suits a moment and in another being forced to be a regular sized crap just to fight some otherwise insects.

[Mungho]

• The premise of the eigth expansion, Shadowlands, revolves around traveling to the death realm. It is revealed that when people die, their souls are sent to the Shadowlands and used as a fuel for the people who inhabit the Shadowlands, powering their machines. This just seals the deal on modern WoW's nihilism, where nothing means anything at all, and a spit in the face of characters like Crusader Bridenbrad, who had an entire storyline revolving around his impending death and the comfort that he would go to the Light (way back when the Light was actually good and holy, and not just some "another side of the same coin").

[/list]

Is this true? If so, the Warcraft universe is almost as miserable as the Warhammer universe.

[formerShandalay]

Is this true? If so, the Warcraft universe is almost as miserable as the Warhammer universe.

No, it's BS. The souls being destroyed for the machines is a thing of the Legion, but in the Shadowlands it works differently. The soul stays itself, only the life energy of said soul (which it of course loses anyway upon death) is sent to the realm and used as nourishment for all that is there. Like, not only machines, because we haven't even seen machines, but re-growing the souls that went there, strengthening them for their time in the Shadowlands or even strengthening them for their journey back to life itself (like in Ardenweald) and sustaining everything all around.
If a being (a soul) gets killed again within the Shadowlands, its soul dissipates, but stays around until one day it may be needed again and form into another being. So the soul itself was explicitly stated to stick around no matter what.