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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Well blizzard original notes on night elves was said wc3 ce dvd that they wanted to make wood elves with dark elf twist as dark elves are extremely magical usually and wood elves live inside and count on many basic night elves sides like their reverance for nature though they aren't as carpon copied as undeads or demons in wc3 but they still pratically only two D6D races combined into one which really isn't that original.
    Have you heard about punctuation?

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-01-12 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Received Infraction
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    When an orc eats an orc, two orcs rip out of the orcs stomach, they eat each other and a brand new orc walks through the door, and then his chest explodes and 20 full grown orcs crawl out of his body. They then eat each other and the bodies until there are 3 orcs left. The mystery of the orc reproduction cycle.

  2. #162
    Stood in the Fire JacobusRex's Avatar
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    Mists of Pandaria, when they ruined Garrosh and diffused the faction war rather than intensify it. But arguably during The Burning Crusade when they made Shattrath a thing. Whenever you design a game to have PVP and then remove the animosity between factions in the story, you ruin the story. Blizzard have been morons since TBC's conception.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    Mists of Pandaria, when they ruined Garrosh and diffused the faction war rather than intensify it. But arguably during The Burning Crusade when they made Shattrath a thing. Whenever you design a game to have PVP and then remove the animosity between factions in the story, you ruin the story. Blizzard have been morons since TBC's conception.
    Wow has never been designed around pvp or even to have pvp in the first place. They just added it because the community asked for it. Just so you know. Pvp does not mean open war at all. They could have stay in that sort of cold war that was Vanilla. Or they could have let the Alliance and the Horde have some sort of truce or peace while some minor parts of them was still duking it out in some place (like alterac valley).
    Last edited by Specialka; 2020-01-12 at 02:01 PM.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    Whenever you design a game to have PVP.
    The game was never designed around PvP, period. They added it as a sideshow due to community request, but the fact is that WoW launched without any form of organised PvP at all. BGs came 4 or 5 patches after launch, and arenas had to wait until BC. Even then, devs came on record saying how they regretted introducing them in the first place.
    "This world is a prison!"

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Well it might be counted as my oppinion but what caused ALL the current problems originates from wc3 like how characters are written for example jainas Mop-warcrimes-wod attitude was same kind of writting(meaning at the end of warcrimes she forgives the horde but at wod still hates the horde) which originated from wc3

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    Well blizzard original notes on night elves was said wc3 ce dvd that they wanted to make wood elves with dark elf twist as dark elves are extremely magical usually and wood elves live inside and count on many basic night elves sides like their reverance for nature though they aren't as carpon copied as undeads or demons in wc3 but they still pratically only two D6D races combined into one which really isn't that original.
    Wood elves with a dark elf twist?

    That's not what the original developers said. They were fully intended to be the best of dark elves and wood elves.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html

    We could never get a majority of the team to [agree] to do elves as a race per se. But then somebody suggested the idea of doing dark elves. We all thought that would be kind of cool, but none of us wanted to do traditional "drow." So we took the best of wood elves and the best of dark elves and made them into one race.
    And indeed this is what happens, night elves became a full race at a time when high elves were part of the alliance units. The backstory of the night elves and the novel war of the ancients, then the progression in cataclysm and legion show you that night elves aren't just wood elves, and never were from the very beginning. The only players that think that are those that aren't keen on them and just go based on what they see in-game without paying attention to what the story is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    You cling to something the night elves willingly abandoned and scorned for well over ten thousand years, they do not look fondly back on the time of their empire, they look back on it, with disgust. The night elves are very much like wood elves, a defanged version from the warhammer asrai to be precise.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html

    http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ne...erview-suramar

    We could never get a majority of the team to [agree] to do elves as a race per se. But then somebody suggested the idea of doing dark elves. We all thought that would be kind of cool, but none of us wanted to do traditional "drow." So we took the best of wood elves and the best of dark elves and made them into one race.


    All these say otherwise. You may appear correct but if you only go superficially on what you see and skim the lore. If you look closer, what you say is further away from what it is, but you have to use all the lore you are given.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    All these say otherwise. You may appear correct but if you only go superficially on what you see and skim the lore. If you look closer, what you say is further away from what it is, but you have to use all the lore you are given.
    [/FONT]
    Yeah nice from blizz to say that, next they say starcraft is an original concept and wasn't meant to be a warhammer 40k title, which is precisely why I said Asrai, the night elves are very similar to those, extremely isolationist, once part of a vast arcane empire, ruled by a lovers pair one transformed by the magic of the forest, the other the avatar of their goddess, helped by demigods of the forests and spirits and always protecting their precious oak of ages.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Yeah nice from blizz to say that, next they say starcraft is an original concept and wasn't meant to be a warhammer 40k title, which is precisely why I said Asrai, the night elves are very similar to those, extremely isolationist, once part of a vast arcane empire, ruled by a lovers pair one transformed by the magic of the forest, the other the avatar of their goddess, helped by demigods of the forests and spirits and always protecting their precious oak of ages.
    That sounds like more than similar, it sounds like an almost identical copy paste

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    That sounds like more than similar, it sounds like an almost identical copy paste
    You don't say, blizz has a habit of taking a great deal from the warhammer universe, twisting it a bit.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    It went wrong when Blizzard decided to try to force 2 factions into a franchise that had 6 different factions at the end of the previous game.

    Trying to shoehorn everything in under the Horde/Alliance banner not only ruined a bunch of things, but it made the world feel small and empty because everything focused around those 2 groups.

    IMO WoW has been at it's best when factions were more or less ignored and at it's worse when the factions are at the forefront. Seeing different cultures and races is way more interesting than watching everything get swallowed up by a blue blob or red blob.
    +1 /10char

  10. #170
    The actual big problem for Warcraft is...

    Being 20+ years in the making and all the people in power, being changed consistently. Each having their own vision, their own agenda and their own understanding of the audience however informed or misinformed it is.

    Its never been able to pause and regroup, constantly reinventing and tuning everything because they have to do it on the run.

    It's super evident that they run into problems and don't have the time to properly address the issue. Literally WoD is a hallmark of meeting the inevitable a wall of issues, whether technical, narrative, etc and navigating around it by simply cutting out content because there's no time to recover from it.

    I do not envy the people that work in that place.





    Also... People like to blame Christie Golden for the state of written lore, here's one of the actual people who ordains what the lore and story actually unfolds into. This person seems to have taken on Metzen's job.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lydia_Bottegoni

    Her previous job really speaks volumes as to why the 'rule of cool' has been drummed into Warcraft something fucking rotten and how story seems nonsensical at times.

    I miss Metzen because although you had Green Jesus, you could mock the credibility of the characters themselves... Not the entire damn story because it literally is so poorly portrayed and ignorant of game structure.
    Last edited by Evangeliste; 2020-01-12 at 07:02 PM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    Mists of Pandaria, when they ruined Garrosh and diffused the faction war rather than intensify it.
    I thought it was a nice transition going from Wrath, through Cata, and into MoP overall. Garrosh's path was more or less set by Cataclsym and seemed to have more of the faults with his story progression than when we got to MoP (different zones with vastly different theme or feel for Garrosh...). MoP's only real issue with the story development was probably how fast we flip from general land grab expansion to Garrosh pushing his TRUE HORDE bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    But arguably during The Burning Crusade when they made Shattrath a thing. Whenever you design a game to have PVP and then remove the animosity between factions in the story, you ruin the story. Blizzard have been morons since TBC's conception.
    I don't really see how shattrath is an example showing removing animosity between the factions. It only served as a singular hub in the outland regions. As for wow being designed for pvp? PVP was a side game at best untill TBC pushed hard on arenas. Hell the game itself was running for a year post launch before it even got anything close to a system for pvp we'd recognize as anything more than pointless killing of one another (a year for honor system and then another month on that for the first pvp instance?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    You don't say, blizz has a habit of taking a great deal from the warhammer universe, twisting it a bit.
    I'm still waiting for a vermintide knock off...

    wait... do mantid count? the MANTIDTIDE!

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Wood elves with a dark elf twist?

    That's not what the original developers said. They were fully intended to be the best of dark elves and wood elves.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html



    And indeed this is what happens, night elves became a full race at a time when high elves were part of the alliance units. The backstory of the night elves and the novel war of the ancients, then the progression in cataclysm and legion show you that night elves aren't just wood elves, and never were from the very beginning. The only players that think that are those that aren't keen on them and just go based on what they see in-game without paying attention to what the story is.

    - - - Updated - - -


    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html

    http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ne...erview-suramar





    All these say otherwise. You may appear correct but if you only go superficially on what you see and skim the lore. If you look closer, what you say is further away from what it is, but you have to use all the lore you are given.
    Warcraft 3 CE behind scenes dvd they descriped it like that but still its combination of those two elves and we are here only talking about the lore from wc3 period tft came in 2003 while war of ancients first novel came in 2004.

    And in wc3 they weren't really yet their own race just big dark/wood elves with female warrior Culture which kinda ended in wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    Have you heard about punctuation?

    Infracted.
    Have you heard about dyslexia?

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by allawyn View Post
    Well, one point was when they thought they could just reuse the plot for an old expansion (MoP) in a new expansion.

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    Another point they went wrong was to keep hitting the same faction with villian bat while hitting the other faction with the hero bat.
    THIS.

    So much of this.

    But I suppose it's easier to imagine "monsters" as villains instead. Kinda racist.

  14. #174
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    The Burning Crusade.

    Kael'thas, Lady Vashj and Illidan were iconic characters and protagonists in Warcraft 3. They deserved better treatment than they received and only Illidan has been 'fixed' since.

  15. #175
    It started with the Draenei/Eredar retcon in TBC which, while rather innocuous on its own, set the stage for the growing amount of retcons and shoehorns meant to reconcile conflicting canon. The most egregious early example is the comic book Harry Stu creation of Med'an, whose story was unfolding during Cataclysm and, given the official canonicity of the previous WOW comics, was expected by many to make an eventual in-game debut. Instead, due to overwhelmingly poor fan reception and the headaches his very existence presented to future storyboards, he was conveniently tucked away into obscurity by apparently having him wander off to adventure the universe.
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  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Honestly it started from TBC and continued in every expansion, more or less.

    Blizzard neglected many faction leaders, warped existing characters into illogical and unbelievable ways, made some characters become too flawless...
    They have this really dumb concept where at start of expo its Horde vs Alliance but by the end they unite - only to again wage war at start of next Expo...

    Player characters (adventurers) were turned into borderline demigods instead of being on the level of footman/grunt.
    Having a flawless 9999 wins - 0 loss score versus every villain in the Warcraft universe is extremely immersion breaking and kills all believability.
    Every expansion had to be some world ending apocalyptic bullsh*t instead of just making a good story that had quality instead of buzzword fluff.
    And being footmen/grunts after fighting in wars on a dozen continents and slaying demigods would be even more immersion breaking. Also did you forget all the times the villains tricked us into helping their plans, we killed the wrong person, or literally got our asses kicked like by Arthas or on the Broken Shore? We're far from flawless.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    Warcraft never really had the best story ever told but it was good. Being made into a mmo hurt it a lot but i think the lore really started to die with WoD.
    Warlords had some huge sins.

    • Convoluted setting.
    • Heralding of the Warlords, only to waste almost all of them.
    • Grom getting a pass.
    • Yrel being AMAZING. Then cast aside like trash.


    It was pretty sad how badly that all turned out - when it held so much promise despite its origin.

  18. #178
    A huge issue with blizzards world is they create important powerful earth-changing characters and just forget them next time something important that's relevant to them comes up (and they should be there). This would be a problem in travel took more time in-universe so conflicts were more contained and it's realistic a character couldn't arrive/didn't know about the event until after the fact. But in-universe practically unlimited magical teleportation exists.

    Keepers/watchers.
    These guys are huge offenders, why is it even when an old god or the legion shows up these guys are just constantly afk? Also, did no one tell the other keepers Odyn and Ra-den are alive? Like the keepers just left Ra-den to sulk in pandaria for 3 expansions? The rediscovery of uldir?

    The Dragonflights
    Ok, they lost their aspect powers in Cata fine but I find it difficult to believe the dragons would have nothing to say about the legion invasion or N'zoth pissing about everywhere.

    A'dal
    He's been waiting for the army of light to show up since TBC and when they finally do in legion he just sits in shatt? Not even a quest or a hand wave or anything.

    The Wild Gods
    For some reason every time Cenarius takes a dirt nap they all just evaporate from azeroth.

  19. #179
    When did it first begin?
    Hard pressed to see anything obvious. (the tehno-magic in TBC...too subtle for me to latch on)
    Cata? Yeah...the environmental redesign pretty much took a shit on a lot of zones. There should have been "phasing" quests to repair them. Still..not too bad.
    Whatever flaws Cata had, I easily forgave with MoP. So MUCH to do! And it was all so damn interesting to quest and explore!

    No...WoD, that's when it became obvious that things just went all bugfuck to hell.
    Acquittal doesn't mean exoneration


  20. #180
    Casual use of time travel for sure. It's created so many problems with the lore that even if you're not trying to find plot holes, so of them are just there. Like why can't we simply warn the NEs at Teldrassil, or go back and prevent any misfortunes and bad stuff that ever happens. Hell, why does Anduin just accept hes fathers death? Why not send the "champion" on a quest to travel back in time and save him?

    Another thing thats wrong is over the top sci-fi stuff that everyone just conveniently forgets about when they could solve a problem easily. Like where is the Vindicaar? Why are soldiers using bows when they have access to guns, bombs, flying machines and tanks. No one used bows and swords even in WW2 and for a good reason.

    I mean sure, the Draenei were introduced in TBC already but lorewise you could argue that most of their stuff got smashed during the crash and was based on Naaru tech, so couldn't be replicated. Even the gnome and goblin stuff were somewhat fine as they weren't exactly reliable or needed a rare power source or something to work. Now on the other hand we literally have mechs with lasers and rockets running around, giant titan high tech facilities, computers, miniguns, tanks, choppers.. why are there still warriors running around with swords and night elves in skimpy armor shooting bows?

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