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  1. #121
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    @op You're a 10 year member and you're just starting to feel this way now? Damn. I have to say, you've had a tremendously positive run of world of warcraft all these years. I'm not being sarcastic either.
    Agreed, compared to other games, WoW had an insane run for me.
    I'm currently enjoying year 6 in Final Fantasy XIV, though I am not raiding anymore in that game either.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Augusta138 View Post
    WoW keeps evolving, however in a bad way.

    Where we had less content back in Classic / TBC etc, and you could literally raid log without any consequence, you can't do that anymore for basically any activity.
    There is always something you need to do in a week because thats how the game is nowadays:
    - AP gains
    - Artifact weapons
    - Essences

    Etc etc,

    Where back then you could login and do a dungeon or raid or just a few pvp matches, that whole mindset is changed to: you have to do atleast x chores a week to be able to do what you wanna do.
    WaRloRDs Of BoReDMoRE, We HavE NOThinG tO dO ouTSIdE of RaiD Bliz PleaSE Whut r u DoiN???

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    Dailies are fine. I don't have addiction problems, however, so I don't feel bad when I don't do them.

    If you don't have the willpower to do that, I can't help you
    Can't help you with your reading and comprehension either so I guess we'll call it a day.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Augusta138 View Post
    WoW keeps evolving, however in a bad way.

    Where we had less content back in Classic / TBC etc, and you could literally raid log without any consequence, you can't do that anymore for basically any activity.
    There is always something you need to do in a week because thats how the game is nowadays:
    - AP gains
    - Artifact weapons
    - Essences

    Etc etc,

    Where back then you could login and do a dungeon or raid or just a few pvp matches, that whole mindset is changed to: you have to do atleast x chores a week to be able to do what you wanna do.

    And the more people they lose, the more of these chores blizz adds to "make up" for the losses, not realizing that this will cause a downward trend.

  5. #125
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donatello Trumpi View Post
    And the more people they lose, the more of these chores blizz adds to "make up" for the losses, not realizing that this will cause a downward trend.
    Yeah, that seems to be their way to ''improve'' on things.

    People just wanna be able to hop into a game and do whatever they wanna do (WQs / PvP / PvE / etc etc) without having all the gameplay systems around it that require daily or return visits to the game on a regular basis.

    Although when i posted that on the WoW EU forums or something similar i got told that would kill off the MMORPG genre, because the G in that abbreviation stands for Grinding apparently.

    Should just be easier to log into WoW and just run 1 dungeon or whatever like you log into PUBG or Fortnite for just a few fun games with friends.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    Can't help you with your reading and comprehension either so I guess we'll call it a day.
    Yep. No idea why casual filth obsesses over a non-existent grind.
    You don't need perfect essences to do a 10 lol. If you were a mythic progression raider you would've been done months ago (and would've finessed AP gain, actually playing less than most people)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augusta138 View Post
    Yeah, that seems to be their way to ''improve'' on things.

    People just wanna be able to hop into a game and do whatever they wanna do (WQs / PvP / PvE / etc etc) without having all the gameplay systems around it that require daily or return visits to the game on a regular basis.

    Although when i posted that on the WoW EU forums or something similar i got told that would kill off the MMORPG genre, because the G in that abbreviation stands for Grinding apparently.

    Should just be easier to log into WoW and just run 1 dungeon or whatever like you log into PUBG or Fortnite for just a few fun games with friends.
    you can 100% do that right now.
    You've been able to do that for months lmao

  7. #127
    Over 9000! Orby's Avatar
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    For most content creators it is literally a job. With the amount of work you have to put in WoW these days I often felt like becoming a streamer but I hear personality is something that's required and I have none of that :P

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by BetrayedOf52 View Post
    No one was asking for the GCD change, and I don't remember people saying please remove all flavour spells. But mainly everyone unless you can find someone who didn't... wanted essences to be account wide and a neck catch up to be implemented long before it was for alts .

    I think most people are typically on the same page, just not the minority that use forums and like to play devils advocate.
    youre 100% right, most people are on the same page (players) with things we do or dont want hence the GCD change, or basically any change ion "doesntgiveashithazziks" wants to change changes.....but like you said the vocal minority are the ones who use the forums are the ones blizz ignores as if they are the only ones feeling that way.

    this game was fun back in the day before it was corporate and all they cared about was profits....

    what they fail to realize is that the corporation bought the game because it was popular, it was popular because the devs cared about the game and thats why it made money, but again the corporate structure came in and decided to base everything off of cost instead of value, which is what corporations do and then they wonder why they lose money, customers and get bad reviews and sometimes fail.

    if this coporation wanted to change anything theyd go back to quality xpacs instead of making stupid fucking goals like lets make one expansion per year, that right there shows that they dont give a shit about a good game they care about money and thats why the game has taken a downturn....cause when thats your MO then you start doing the little things that fuck up a good game.
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  9. #129

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post

    "Hey team -- let's go ahead and get rid of the one thing our game does better than anything else in the gaming landscape and replace it with... more homogenized bullshit that cynical gamers already complain way too fucking much about anyway."
    -no reasonably sane game developer, ever
    Really, if you think raiding is the one thing this game does well, you haven't been playing the whole game. Raiding is actually holding the game back because they just make a raid every patch, slap each other on the back and think "job well done."

    I'm not saying to take raids out, I'm just saying that they are using it as a crutch, each and every patch. After 15 years....... It's getting a little old. How many times can you "Don't stand in x, stack when y happens, blow your cds when this happens, save hero for the burn phase......" before it becomes somewhat "robotic" even. Most people need something different after 15 years, for some it still works.

    I think its the reason they are losing players. People like new and different things, not the same old, over and over and over again. They are falling back on raids as an "easy" design choice they can make to produce "content," without thinking too much about it. A crutch. If they stopped relying on raids and the "end all, be all" each and every content patch- it would force them to think outside the box and be more creative.

    Also, you can look at the completion percentages for the raids in the last four patch cycles. They are way down.

    You might no be tried of the same old thing after 15 years, but according the completion percentages- most of the player base (over 70-80% actually) are a bit tired of the same old, same old.

    If they want to know why they are losing players- maybe look at the the "content" that takes the most dev time (raids) and look at how many of your players are actually completing them (less than 30%) and you have your very obvious answer right there.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    Really, if you think raiding is the one thing this game does well, you haven't been playing the whole game. Raiding is actually holding the game back because they just make a raid every patch, slap each other on the back and think "job well done."

    I'm not saying to take raids out, I'm just saying that they are using it as a crutch, each and every patch. After 15 years....... It's getting a little old. How many times can you "Don't stand in x, stack when y happens, blow your cds when this happens, save hero for the burn phase......" before it becomes somewhat "robotic" even. Most people need something different after 15 years, for some it still works.

    I think its the reason they are losing players. People like new and different things, not the same old, over and over and over again. They are falling back on raids as an "easy" design choice they can make to produce "content," without thinking too much about it. A crutch. If they stopped relying on raids and the "end all, be all" each and every content patch- it would force them to think outside the box and be more creative.

    Also, you can look at the completion percentages for the raids in the last four patch cycles. They are way down.

    You might no be tried of the same old thing after 15 years, but according the completion percentages- most of the player base (over 70-80% actually) are a bit tired of the same old, same old.

    If they want to know why they are losing players- maybe look at the the "content" that takes the most dev time (raids) and look at how many of your players are actually completing them (less than 30%) and you have your very obvious answer right there.
    The question should never be: "Why is WoW losing players?" WoW has been losing players since Vanilla and there are so many different reasons people quit the game that it's almost pointless to try to quantify it. (Not to mention Blizzard will never release any of their internal player metrics.) The better question is: "What can WoW do to retain its current customers?" And when you frame it like that, it's obvious why Blizzard keeps raiding around. There are four difficulty levels for Christ's sake. Removing or further sanitizing raiding so it more closely resembles other "more popular" games will serve only to alienate the current players who are sticking around for the current design while simultaneously providing nothing unique to fill the void. It's much better to let WoW continue to occupy the extremely niche space it has etched out as it currently has almost no competition than it is to tell the developers to reinvent the wheel in a vain effort to make the game even more accessible.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    Also, you can look at the completion percentages for the raids in the last four patch cycles. They are way down.
    Which can easily be contributed to several factors, none of which are "raiding is less popular".
    A) BfA has lost a metric fuckload of players. I'd be shocked if the playerbase is at 50% of what it was in Legion.
    B) Raids are harder, leading to lower overall clear percentages. Too hard, I would argue (particularly with end bosses like Jaina and Azshara).
    C) The amount of busywork nonsense you need to complete to be a competitive raider has never been higher, not even in Vanilla with world buffs and stacking consumables.
    D) Mythic+ has eaten into the raiding community significantly because it's faster, easier, more rewarding, and requires less effort overall. Without tier sets, there is not really any specific incentive to raid, considering how grueling progression raiding can be now.

    I personally think (C) is the largest contributor, followed by (A) and (D).

  13. #133
    Well no, it does not and will never feel like a job because at any time you can quit without having to worry if you'll be able to pay rent next month.
    DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN CAST ASIDE YOUR GUILT SO EASILY

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by ErrandRunner View Post
    AoE looting in retail. I don't recall many - if any - being opposed to that change. 99.99% of players were on board with that!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Are you insinuating that gamers ought to earn their right to play Blizzard games?
    Didnt seem like they were insinuating that. At all. Not sure why you wanted them to say that.

  15. #135
    Why are you not playing something else if its not fun. Only a complete moron plays a game they dont like

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Druitz View Post
    Mythic raiding defenitly can make you feel like this game is your job. If you don't want to suffer for months wiping x hundered times you need good guild and good guild require you to have alts, high neck level, high essences level etc on 2 or even 3 characters so they can switch raid compositions.

    if you don't do it you can be replaced by someone who will just like in job. bad workers are replaced.

    Sad but true.

    I always found that the best way to avoid WoW from feeling like a job was to just avoid organized play.

    It’s very liberating and puts the game back on your own terms, so if it still feels job-like after that, then it’s easier to spot your own self affliction (and stop it).
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2019-12-25 at 10:55 PM.

  17. #137
    I dont mind the game feeling like a job as long as the job is enjoyable.
    I dont sit down to play a GAME to be ANNOYED with mindless, LAZY, pointless, trash AP or essence grinds with absolutely ZERO entertainment value.
    Why dont I just sit down in front of a blank wall and stare at it for 3 hours instead of watching one of the marvel movies, because thats about the comparison between the FUN that is Mists content versus the absolutely boring garbage trash that BFA AP grinding is.
    If I see one more tiny azerite splinter I think Im going to throw my gaming rig that I just upgraded yet again into the dumpster and go back to playing golf again.

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    Why are you not playing something else if its not fun. Only a complete moron plays a game they dont like
    uh....because SOME parts of WoW ARE fun....from classic content right up thru MoP.
    Why on earth would I stop playing 1-90 where I enjoy the game because the TRASH that begins in WoD and persists thru BFA when I can just avoid THAT content specifically (and I do)?

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by MuckDweller View Post
    I dont mind the game feeling like a job as long as the job is enjoyable.
    I dont sit down to play a GAME to be ANNOYED with mindless, LAZY, pointless, trash AP or essence grinds with absolutely ZERO entertainment value.
    Why dont I just sit down in front of a blank wall and stare at it for 3 hours instead of watching one of the marvel movies, because thats about the comparison between the FUN that is Mists content versus the absolutely boring garbage trash that BFA AP grinding is.
    If I see one more tiny azerite splinter I think Im going to throw my gaming rig that I just upgraded yet again into the dumpster and go back to playing golf again.

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    uh....because SOME parts of WoW ARE fun....from classic content right up thru MoP.
    Why on earth would I stop playing 1-90 where I enjoy the game because the TRASH that begins in WoD and persists thru BFA when I can just avoid THAT content specifically (and I do)?
    which part of mop was fun? the doing 25 dailies every day to get rep to buy valor items, or the doing legendary questline in lfr? i'm curious

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Which can easily be contributed to several factors, none of which are "raiding is less popular".
    A) BfA has lost a metric fuckload of players. I'd be shocked if the playerbase is at 50% of what it was in Legion.
    B) Raids are harder, leading to lower overall clear percentages. Too hard, I would argue (particularly with end bosses like Jaina and Azshara).
    C) The amount of busywork nonsense you need to complete to be a competitive raider has never been higher, not even in Vanilla with world buffs and stacking consumables.
    D) Mythic+ has eaten into the raiding community significantly because it's faster, easier, more rewarding, and requires less effort overall. Without tier sets, there is not really any specific incentive to raid, considering how grueling progression raiding can be now.

    I personally think (C) is the largest contributor, followed by (A) and (D).
    This is spot on. In addition:

    E) Classic has eaten significantly into the retail raiding community. I bet many guilds broke up or stopped raiding due to it.
    F) The aszhara patch made having competetive alts a chore -> Less alts means less raid groups formed.
    G) The biggest reason perhaps: BFA is a failure and generating "negative hype". The class gameplay and azerite system are downgrades from legion. Classes especially feel like a weak legion version. The new systems, island expedition and warfronts, are mindless and boring. The narrative is chaotic at best, fanfiction-quality at worst and the "passion" from the devs is just not there.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Donatello Trumpi View Post
    This is spot on. In addition:

    E) Classic has eaten significantly into the retail raiding community. I bet many guilds broke up or stopped raiding due to it.
    F) The aszhara patch made having competetive alts a chore -> Less alts means less raid groups formed.
    G) The biggest reason perhaps: BFA is a failure and generating "negative hype". The class gameplay and azerite system are downgrades from legion. Classes especially feel like a weak legion version. The new systems, island expedition and warfronts, are mindless and boring. The narrative is chaotic at best, fanfiction-quality at worst and the "passion" from the devs is just not there.
    the passion from the devs is there, forumgoers just circlejerk themselves into believing their headcanon is the truth.
    and if by "raiding community" you mean LFR gods and pvpers like cdew, sure.

    You can 100% be competitive on every dps with clf3, cof3, focusing iris3.

    You get those 3 at rank 3 after 3 weeks.

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