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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I think people are missing that the Rebellion doesn't even exist yet n expect Cassian to operate like some highly functioning Rebel operative, when the Rebels...don't exist
    Depends on what you mean by "the Rebellion". The official declaration of an "Alliance to Restore the Republic" was in 2 BBY, but by 5 BBY (which is when this show is set) we already have plenty of rebel cells around operating subversively against the Empire. Forms of resistance began while the Clone Wars were still going on, and secret rebellion was clearly fomenting long before the Rebel Alliance made itself known officially; we see some of this in the Kenobi show. And as for "highly functioning Rebel operative"... isn't that what Luthen Rael is, pretty much exactly? He literally gives lessons on it to Cassian in Ep3, like quoting from a training manual.

    Of course Cassian is a green ne'er-do-well and not a spy. That's absolutely accurate. But it's not like the Rebellion in some form or another doesn't exist yet at that point. It very much does.

  2. #222
    Legendary! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Depends on what you mean by "the Rebellion". The official declaration of an "Alliance to Restore the Republic" was in 2 BBY, but by 5 BBY (which is when this show is set) we already have plenty of rebel cells around operating subversively against the Empire. Forms of resistance began while the Clone Wars were still going on, and secret rebellion was clearly fomenting long before the Rebel Alliance made itself known officially; we see some of this in the Kenobi show. And as for "highly functioning Rebel operative"... isn't that what Luthen Rael is, pretty much exactly? He literally gives lessons on it to Cassian in Ep3, like quoting from a training manual.

    Of course Cassian is a green ne'er-do-well and not a spy. That's absolutely accurate. But it's not like the Rebellion in some form or another doesn't exist yet at that point. It very much does.
    And it is considered in Canon that the Rebellion started shortly or not as Palpatine declared himself Emperor. Bail, Mon, and others worked with several cells independently.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    To me it felt like a cross between Jedi Fallen Order and Bioware/Obsidian Star Wars games and I'm HERE for it, honestly. So far I'm very much enjoying it
    i too got some Jedi Fallen Order vibes out of it. probably because from what i remember it had similar visuals in the beginning.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  4. #224
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    i too got some Jedi Fallen Order vibes out of it. probably because from what i remember it had similar visuals in the beginning.
    Its pretty much the same era. I think people forget that there was a time where the Empire actually had its boot to the neck of everyone and not a bunch of bucket heads getting beat by teddy bears.

    Every story between the end of Episode 3 (the movie) and Episode 4 is dark. There was effectively no hope in the galaxy until the Death Star blew up.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Its pretty much the same era. I think people forget that there was a time where the Empire actually had its boot to the neck of everyone and not a bunch of bucket heads getting beat by teddy bears.

    Every story between the end of Episode 3 (the movie) and Episode 4 is dark. There was effectively no hope in the galaxy until the Death Star blew up.
    i'm just glad to see they're willing to show more of what i consider a pretty cool universe.
    extra points for trying to do something for adults.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  6. #226
    This already wipes the floor with Boba Fett and Obi-Wan on almost every level. Characters/writing, environments, acting and pacing are all on point. I really like what I'm seeing, so far.
    "yOu aRe wRoNg" - Darththeo

  7. #227
    Scarab Lord Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    ‘Andor’ Creator Tony Gilroy Urged His Team to Put Aside Their ‘Star Wars’ Reverence

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...rs-1235226261/
    BY BRIAN DAVIDS - SEPTEMBER 23, 2022 10:39AM

    Well, Tony, Andor is exactly what I’ve been waiting for from Star Wars.

    Wow, let’s just finish there. We’re done.

    Have a nice day!

    (Laughs.)

    So I used to believe that Star Wars filmmakers needed to be lifelong Star Wars fans, but thanks to you, I no longer hold that opinion. Andor feels wholly unique to Star Wars, and I think it’s because you’re not coming from a place of nostalgia. So do you still believe that not being a lifelong fan is your “superpower”?

    I think it imprinted on Rogue because that was my point of entry. It wasn’t that I didn’t like it. It just wasn’t on my radar. I wasn’t in awe of it. So when I came in here to futz around and repair [Rogue One], I knew I’d do my thing. I was going to bring my thing here. And it worked. We won, and then everybody was incredibly euphoric and everything. So my sort of imprinting experience was, “Well, that’s how you do it.” And that’s what I do. That’s the way to go. So I didn’t have to relearn that.

    It’s really fascinating. We have this experience all the time. In every department, we’ve had all kinds of people come in, and they know it’s Star Wars, so they change their behavior. They change their attitude. They change their thing. An actor will come in off a Ken Loach movie or something, they’ll put on a Star Wars [costume], and all of a sudden, this great actor, who auditioned for you and didn’t know what it really was, starts acting differently. And you go, “Wait, no. Do your thing. You’re here because we want you to be real.” So it’s a testament to the potent power of Star Wars. It really gets into people’s heads, but to change the lane and do it this way, it takes a little effort. It’s interesting.

    I just referenced your conversation with writer Brian Koppelman in 2017, and at the time, it sounded like you didn’t expect to return to Star Wars. What brought you back?

    They tried to do a couple different versions of this show along the way. I wasn’t really interested, but the people that were trying it were feeling a little bit trapped in what we just discussed, this reverence for Star Wars. But they were also kind of inhibited because the economics weren’t really in place for large-scale streaming at that point. The economics to make a show like this, there wasn’t anybody who was going to spend that kind of money on a show. Now, there’s a bunch of aircraft carriers that are floating around; this is becoming a normal thing. (Laughs.)

    But along the way, Kathy [Kennedy] sent me one of the pilots that they were thinking about, but had grown cool on, and she asked what I thought. And in some sort of … I don’t know. I had time. I was in some sort of manic thing, and so I just got on it for a couple days. So I wrote this big manifesto for her. “This is what your show should be like. This is what you should never do. This is why this doesn’t work.” So it was a crazy thing, and it was wildly ambitious. And they were like, “Well, that’s really great. Thanks for helping us know what’s wrong, but we could never do this.” Then they tried a couple other things, and when everything had gone cold, there was a moment where, my God, streaming was whoa. Now we can really do it.

    So they went back and pulled this old memo, and they were like, “We want to do this now.” They wanted to be that ambitious on this scale, and the timing was right for me. I had a bunch of other things fall apart. I was getting a little tired of things falling apart, and the one thing that they definitely have is an audience. So it wasn’t an overnight thing that you tiptoe into. It takes a long time. Everybody tiptoes forward, but that’s how it came to be.

    The Volume is amazing technology, but nothing beats the old ways of building sets and shooting on location. Thus, Andor’s production value is immaculate. Did you lobby to shoot on location and build massive sets? Was that a prerequisite for you?

    It wasn’t really an issue. When I came on, Sanne Wohlenberg was the producer of record. She came with the existing pieces of the show. So Sanne was there, but I didn’t know her. She had just done Chernobyl, and it was sort of a shotgun marriage. So here we were together, and I had no idea that she was just going to be this rockstar producer.

    And so the first decision you have to make is who’s going to be your production designer. Even in writing, my first call is to the production designer, because everything we do has to be designed. So we put a marker down. It was kind of a test for Disney: “How serious are you?” We didn’t want to go with any of the traditional Star Wars people. We wanted [production designer] Luke Hull, who was like 12 years old and had just done Chernobyl. He’s just a fricking genius, but non-Star Wars in every way. So we brought him over. As I was doing the [series] bible, I wrote the first three episodes as a sort of a test.

    In a perfect world, we’d be able to shoot location and shoot old school, and then we’d use the Volume when we want to use it. There are times when the Volume would be really good for us, but the technology doesn’t exist to do both. You have to make a choice at this point because of the workflow on the Volume. All your post-production has to be done beforehand. You have to shoot all of your plates. Everything has to be done. When you go in the Volume, everything’s done. You’re just adding the actors.

    Our system is completely different. We shoot everything with the actors, and we build out from there if we need to build out. And those two systems, maybe there’s somebody who’s doing it, but economically, you can’t do [both]. So, automatically, we were just like, “We have to be a build show.” It wasn’t a controversy, really. I saw it get turned into a controversy the other day, but it’s not like that at all. There are times where we’d love to use it. It does some great things.

    When you invent the past, you recontextualize the future. So will this story change the way we look at Rogue One?

    Yes, definitely. (Gilroy smiles.)

    Cassian not only owes money to people, but he’s also in a situation where the walls are closing in on him. And so for anyone who’s familiar with your past work, they know that this is right in your wheelhouse. Do you recognize any other through-lines?

    Oh my God, yeah. I haven’t changed one single bit. I do the same thing I’ve always done. From the moment I figured out how to really do it, or evolved into it, I’ve never changed my process. I bring my game and my system. I haven’t changed to do this.

    Stellan Skarsgard’s character, Luthen Rael, is already one of the most fascinating characters in Star Wars. My favorite moment of the series so far is in episode four, when Nicholas Britell’s theme plays over him as he readies himself on his ship and cracks a wry smile.

    Oh my God, isn’t that gorgeous? We just finished the score three weeks ago. [Writer’s Note: This interview took place on Aug. 5th.] We just finished mixing episode 12 the day before yesterday, and people are going to flip out over what Nick has done. This job is just so intense, and there’s so much going on. Nick lives 11 blocks away from me in New York, and so I would just go to his house to work. For two years, we’ve been doing the music, and going to his house is really like going to church. We’ve just had so much fun. Seven hours of music. It’s an entirely new vocabulary for Star Wars, and I’m really proud of the score.

    Luthen is the noble Gus Fring of Coruscant, I suppose. How did he come to be?

    That man is really tricky. In the beginning, you’re like, “Oh God, secret identity. How are we going to do it? It’s going to be cheesy. What do they do?” Stellan’s character has two personas. He owns a gallery in Coruscant, and he’s an aesthete. He’s a courtier in a way, and then he’s natural Luthen out in the world.

    One day, when we were developing the whole thing, Stellan goes, “Ah, the wigs … It’s really just the hands.” And I go, “What do you mean?” And he goes, “Well, natural Luthen is this, and Luthen of Coruscant is this. That’s all it is.” (Gilroy performed both mannerisms.) So it was one of those things that I was really worried about and nervous about. It’s always the case on every show, but the things you don’t worry about are the ones that bite you in the ass. So I was really, really worried about this, but all those issues took care of themselves along the way. That, very elegantly, worked out. Yeah, I love Luthen of Coruscant.

    There are characters on Andor who weren’t in Rogue or the original Star Wars movies, so some viewers will mistakenly believe that they all have to die to explain their future absence in separate stories written long before this one. However, life can exist off screen. So what can you say about the fates of these new characters?

    We literally have around 200 speaking parts in the first 12 episodes. When I figured out season two, I had to make about 30 phone calls to the actors that I knew were going to go forward. I had to call them up and say, “Hey, this is what I’m thinking. This is when you live. This is when you die. This is how many episodes you’re in.” I mean, the body count is high all the way through, but people live. It’s a revolution. It’s a very intense period of time. People are doing very dangerous things. Some people live and some people don’t. How do we know who lives or dies at the end from the previous Star Wars? You wouldn’t know. I mean, there’s people buried in Yavin. Who knows who’s there.

    Are you going to direct in season two?

    I am not. I can’t. This job is just too huge. I don’t have the time to spare. It’s a really poor use of my time. Ari [Ariel] Kleiman is out in Pinewood. I was out there this morning. We start shooting in November. He started prepping three weeks ago. He’s got his hands full out there just to get to November. I have all the rest of the things I have to do. There was some fantasy that I would end up doing the last block, but I just can’t, to be honest with you.

    So the directors who’ve come in have all been great, and they’re really ambitious. They’re really greedy. You need an extra retrorocket to go off when it’s time to direct. When someone else comes in and says, “Man, I want to make this great. I want to make it better,” it’s really exciting. So I can say that I’m not directing. I’ll be here [in Pinewood], but I’m not directing.

    You often work with the brothers Gilroy, but I somehow didn’t realize that Dan was also involved as a writer. Did he take to the Star Wars galaxy pretty quickly?

    Yeah, Dan Gilory can do anything. He’s a freak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ariel Who?? Never heard of him...is he any good?..

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I don't know much about that writer but that's a lazy comparison. The Empire has always been about fascism. Why even go out your away to attribute the story to someone who doesn't even deserve to named in connection to SW?

    No one is remotely thinking about that man when they sit down to watch SW.

    All that aside, I'm here to see people take the bait.
    I wans't really looking for it, but hearing it mentioned, and thinking of the show's themes being about kind of the 'road to militancy and radicalism', I could see that Syril Karn guy being a kind of Stephen Miller or even Josh Hawley-esque guy who goes further and further into the fascist deep end from being 'the kind of guy who deserves to win' in his own mind, and then facing that loss.

  9. #229
    Scarab Lord Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    [Lengthy] discussion about Andor with Robert Burnett


  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    ‘-snip-
    Interesting interview. So far this is the best Star Wars show since The Mandalorian. How do the fans who feel SW storytellers should be respectful of Star Wars and what it means, and its themes, feel about this? The showrunner seems to directly scoff at the idea of being stuck in such a stale mindset. He sounds like....well, Rian Johnson, in his interviews leading up to The Last Jedi.

  11. #231
    The Lightbringer Hansworst's Avatar
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    After three episodes, which in my opinion could've been one episode, I'm still not sold. Is it better than Boba and Obi? Yes. Does it approach the Mandolorian? No.
    Could it be a me-problem? Yes.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    I'm a bit confused about Kanari. Did the people regress to barbarism after a mining accident? I find it odd they call it imperial, when presumably it would have been the republic that had the issue.
    .
    I don't think we have seen the entire Kanari story yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Interesting interview. So far this is the best Star Wars show since The Mandalorian. How do the fans who feel SW storytellers should be respectful of Star Wars and what it means, and its themes, feel about this? The showrunner seems to directly scoff at the idea of being stuck in such a stale mindset. He sounds like....well, Rian Johnson, in his interviews leading up to The Last Jedi.
    Rian Johnson did something bold, and something that was very much needed, for Star Wars. He did something new. New perspectives, new ideas. The problem was that he did it in the middle of a story that started with what was essentially a worse version of Episode 4, full of tropes, clichee characters, the typical Star Wars stuff. Which created massive problems, the characters felt disconnected from their previous incarnations in Ep.7, the tone was all over the place, and it was even more difficult to pick up after it, because Rian basically left the story after burning everything to the ground.

    I don't think most (adult) Star Wars fans have an issue with new perspectives in Star Wars. The Mandalorian was kind of completely new. But it still felt respectful to the original material. Last Jedi did not.

    Same with this series. I think most people were surprised when Andor outright killed a fellow Rebel in R1, it shows the more desperate and ruthless side of what was probably needed for the Rebels more often than not.

    So far I greatly enjoy Andor, but I enjoyed all of the SW series so far, to varying degrees.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    After three episodes, which in my opinion could've been one episode, I'm still not sold. Is it better than Boba and Obi? Yes. Does it approach the Mandolorian? No.
    Could it be a me-problem? Yes.
    I mean, does it have to?

    Also, a major difference here is probably that Mando is a rough, tough but likeable character, someone the audience can easily identify with, or sympathize with. Andor is a scrappy fugitive, and by far not as heroic.

    It's not a you-problem, I can easily understand why people enjoy this show less than Mandalorian. Heck, I do. I still think it's pretty good, so far.

  13. #233
    I've heard The Mandalorian called many things, but "new" wasn't one of them. It was about a new type of Mandalorian, sure (the "This is The Way" type of strict mandos), but everything about it was classic Star Wars. And it fed on nostalgia from day 1 with Baby Yoda, and Ahsoka, and Starbuck's Mando faction showing up, and eventually even Luke showing up. Even the Darksaber showing up is a nod to classic (if niche) Star Wars.

    I don't think Star Wars fans like new things at all, tbh. Boba Fett tried to be something new as kind of a "cartel overlord" sort of show, it was widely panned because it didn't fit into what people thought Boba Fett should be.

  14. #234
    Scarab Lord Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Interesting interview. So far this is the best Star Wars show since The Mandalorian. How do the fans who feel SW storytellers should be respectful of Star Wars and what it means, and its themes, feel about this? The showrunner seems to directly scoff at the idea of being stuck in such a stale mindset. He sounds like....well, Rian Johnson, in his interviews leading up to The Last Jedi.
    I think the director feels one needs to bring ones skills, craft first, then franchise second, to get the best results. What do sw fans feel about that?

    I remind them that most of everybody's favorite holy grail of Star Wars, is Empire Strikes Back, done by a director that wasn't a fan of Star Wars, didn't want to direct it, refused, etc.

    I don't know what people here feel about the youtuber Minty, I think his videos are good compilations of movies made n their reception..


    the problem with jj abrams n rian johnson they neither brought director A game, or care about star wars, making that trilogy a total mess..and as a result u get fans overly protective of the franchise what could happen to it, so anyone who says they don't put sw first, but directing etc. is a 'threat' when they are actually the ones that'll save the franchise...

  15. #235
    I finally got around to watching the first 3 episodes. I would agree the pacing is on the slower side but the acting is great and story is still intriguing.

    I honestly like the change of format from the likes of Mandalorian, BoBF and Obi-wan. Its nice Disney can show they can do something other than just copy/paste the same thing over and over again with a slightly different coat of paint.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I think the director feels one needs to bring ones skills, craft first, then franchise second, to get the best results. What do sw fans feel about that?
    Personally, I totally agree with that hierarchy. All I want is a good end product - skillfully made, with sophisticated writing, engaging acting, and polished cinematography. All the "SW stuff" comes after that - I'm not super fussed about things like continuity etc. unless it's SUPER egregious. And I especially don't care about the "cameo syndrome" that plagues so much of SW, as if you aren't allowed to go 10 minutes without someone in the audience screeching "ooooh that's that thing from that thing!" at something.

  17. #237
    Scarab Lord Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Lol hilarious


  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Interesting interview. So far this is the best Star Wars show since The Mandalorian. How do the fans who feel SW storytellers should be respectful of Star Wars and what it means, and its themes, feel about this? The showrunner seems to directly scoff at the idea of being stuck in such a stale mindset. He sounds like....well, Rian Johnson, in his interviews leading up to The Last Jedi.
    I wondered that as well though I started to think why the feel on this and reaction is so different and aside from aforementioned being in a middle of a trilogy rather then self contained story that ties into larger narrative rather loosely - Andor mostly deals with either brand new characters, or characters who are relatively new and so far it doesn't at all contradict their first portrayal. Last Jedi on the other hand in an effort to subvert expectations - takes both legacy and new characters in a direction that none of them earned so to speak. it undermines existing character development. when seen in a vacuum, its still not a good movie IMO, but its decent. when seen as part 2 to existing trilogy? eh...

    things that I did like from it. Idea of Rey not being related to anyone significant and force sensitive individuals coming from everywhere and anywhere. it doesn't actualy contradict the existing lore, but expands it, opening up room for more varied stories. conformation of Leia's force sensitivity (though original story already heavily hinted at it). the idea (though not execution) behind General Holdo and Rose. Things I didn't like - characterization of most returning characters, pretty much all of them were done dirty in one way or another, often leading to head scratching actions just so they could move the plot along. Reylo (gag)

  19. #239
    Really enjoyed the first three episodes, with the third one being a very, very good one.

    Rogue One was my favorite Star Wars movie since the original trilogy, so i guess it makes sense i like this. I really enjoy the more grounded stuff.

    Fiona Shaw was a treat in a very solid cast, and it just looks, feels and sounds like Star Wars. Amazing production value, and i'm looking forward the next episodes.

  20. #240
    Pre-mor is really cheesy and nonthreatening it's kind of making the show feel like a syfy channel ripoff of star wars to me

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