[TV] Disney+ Star Wars: Cassian Andor

[ringpriest]

Syril's story is a verrryy slow burn. I can see them building up his arc to set the stage, but he's kind of been left simmering on the stove.

If this was a Filoni show, I'd be wondering if his fanaticism would lead him into recruitment as an Inquisitor, but I don't think that would fit the tone of Andor. I'm just not sure where there is for him to go. The ISB doesn't seem at all likely to recruit loose-cannon fanatics, even loyal ones. But I can't quite see his vision of the Empire being so broken that he becomes a rebel instead, either. If I had to guess, it would be that he screws things up one last time (to our protagonists advantage) and then dies or goes to prison - having Syril ruin the ISB's operation lets them remain dangerously effective antagonists for future seasons, while giving the protagonists a chance to run that makes sense.

[Koriani]

It is to get people to subscribe to D+. They have to pay to see the "conclusion". If people see all of the mini-arc there wouldn't be as big of a reason for them to subscribe because the story would be concluded even if the season has more episodes.

Well I mean I GET that. Leaving off the 'finale' to get people to subscribe. And I'm sure it will work for some.

But, honestly, as one of the fans not so impressed with the first half of this show (and married to an even bigger fan who was also not impressed) - the first two episodes would not have inspired me to pay for the third. Quite the opposite. With no way of knowing if the third episode was "any better" or "any different" than the first two, we would not even have been tempted to pay.

It was only AFTER seeing the third episode that we were given 'A New Hope' (ha!) about the series and that the slow pace of the first two episodes was actually 'paying out' in the third - rather than just continuing that 'slow burn' (growing into boredom) forever. That gave us the stamina and desire to sit through another two slow-paced episodes for the payout (again), and the series really started clipping at episode 7.

So while I'm sure, of course, that Disney will get more subscribers from showing just the first two - I really think they'd get even MORE by finishing the arc, showing the audience where the slow-burn (for those of us that felt it was) pays out, and then leaving fans to have to pay for the rest of the season to see how the show goes AFTER the first "payout" arc.

And I don't really see that first arc story as 'concluding' anything in the "Main" story, it merely gets Andor introduced and shows us his START in the rebellion. I see it as a 'prequel' arc, or 'setup arc', to the main story. But yes, it does conclude that little "setup" arc.

[PACOX]

I don't like the 'Luthen is an ex-Jedi' theories but damn is it now harder to easily dismiss theories about him being at least force-sensitive.


I think there is a corner EU writers wrote themselves into and creeping up in canon thanks to people like Filoni and Abrams. You can't have someone who is just smart or talented, they have to force-sensitive or questionable force-sensitive/adjacent. Only a small handful of people are badass on their own. I truly hope Luthen is just a guy who got really good at what he does, maybe he is from a war torn background like Saw. Last thing I want is to see him pulling off Force abilities.

[Ihavewaffles]

it's revealed that Luthen's stick is not a light sabre but is a hidden knife thingy, I don't think/hope he is not a force user

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a bit random..


An Architect Reviews the Architecture of Star Wars: Andor

Morphologis
3 weeks ago

[Mister K]

I think there is a corner EU writers wrote themselves into and creeping up in canon thanks to people like Filoni and Abrams.

We hating on Filoni now too?

[Ihavewaffles]

I just thought of something, Luthen's ship, the ai, must be pretty advanced...he flew the ship but it wasn't him pressing the button to shoot the Tie-fighters...makes me think about that Mandalorian episode where Din Djarin was going with Bill Burr n co for busting out that GoT woman's brother, during their flight they had this spooky insectoid looking droid, it did some sick maneuvers with the razor crest, I'm thinking Luthen has some very advanced ai onboard..it did keep its eye on Andor pretty good..

So his whole ship is basically a droid...dunno how he put it together, but I wonder how many took tactical droids after the clone wars n found other uses for them...



and that maneuver with teh lazer beams cutting up two tie-fighters, n not miss, so if he is not force sensitive he would probably have missed if the ship didn't do most of the work..

[PACOX]

I just thought of something, Luthen's ship, the ai, must be pretty advanced...he flew the ship but it wasn't him pressing the button to shoot the Tie-fighters...makes me think about that Mandalorian episode where Din Djarin was going with Bill Burr n co for busting out that GoT woman's brother, during their flight they had this spooky insectoid looking droid, it did some sick maneuvers with the razor crest, I'm thinking Luthen has some very advanced ai onboard..it did keep its eye on Andor pretty good..

So his whole ship is basically a droid...dunno how he put it together, but I wonder how many took tactical droids after the clone wars n found other uses for them...

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b4/bf/ef/b4bfefa482bf93cd14958b8c9fb22e35--star-wars.jpg[/IG]

and that maneuver with teh lazer beams cutting up two tie-fighters, n not miss, so if he is not force sensitive he would probably have missed if the ship didn't do most of the work..

So like the Millennium Falcon but with a hardcore murder droid instead.

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We hating on Filoni now too?

Nah but the man definitely has certain notes he always hits.

[Ihavewaffles]

trailer if the show came out before A new hope did, in 1975

So like the Millennium Falcon but with a hardcore murder droid instead.

Solo? That ai is not in og trilogy...what happened to it? Chewie flushed it out by mistake?

[Mekh]

Solo? That ai is not in og trilogy...what happened to it? Chewie flushed it out by mistake?

Threepeeoh comments on the Falcon's weird dialect in Empire Strikes Back.

[Ihavewaffles]

Maarva's not exactly a military leader, could have had some more common sense than inspire a riot where the population was unprepared to take on the empire..
But she was in character, a pretty reckless person who follows her heart, so now many joined her in the afterlife..

Though, imps inflicting violence upon Bee, that alone is reason enough to start a rebellion, you just don't do something like that without consequences!

Mon Mothma threw her driver off with fake gambling accusations towards her husband, then isb accepts it as fact. But...then she anyway introduces her daughter to the gangster's son...wut?

Liked the end credits scene!

[Darththeo]

Mon Mothma threw her driver off with fake gambling accusations towards her husband, then isb accepts it as fact. But...then she anyway introduces her daughter to the gangster's son...wut?

How did you totally misunderstand or at least not get what was going on? Mothma wasn't just looking to throw off the ISB for the missing money, she was looking for alternative banking avenues. She still needs to fund the Rebellion AND she needs to keep the ISB off her. The convo with her husband is to throw off the ISB, and the deal with the gangster is to insure a flow of credits into the Rebellion. If she kept spending the way she was, the ISB would eventually figure out that the spending wasn't just gambling.

On the another note. I absolutely love this series. It had fan service that felt earned in the story and just not "Hey Hey, remember this? You like this right?" I think Andor is the best Star Wars Disney+ show to date. Mando Season 1 was good, but Andor blew it out of the water for me. I hope season 2 happens because this was amazingly well done. The characters are all feel real and not just set pieces on a board.

[Fabinas]

Maarva's not exactly a military leader, could have had some more common sense than inspire a riot where the population was unprepared to take on the empire..
But she was in character, a pretty reckless person who follows her heart, so now many joined her in the afterlife..

Though, imps inflicting violence upon Bee, that alone is reason enough to start a rebellion, you just don't do something like that without consequences!

Mon Mothma threw her driver off with fake gambling accusations towards her husband, then isb accepts it as fact. But...then she anyway introduces her daughter to the gangster's son...wut?

Liked the end credits scene!

Everything that happened on Ferrix was planned. It became obvious the citizens were angered by the Empire's direct involvement there. Maarva stayed there, instead of following Cassian, to prepare for an instigation event around her own funeral. The bomb was prepared, her funeral was anticipated to draw the Empire's attention, given that they were arresting and harassing people close to Andor (keeping Maarva untouched as bait). Even the spaceship to escape after the attack was prepared.

The only deviations were: Cassian spotting Luthien, forcing his hand to encounter him, instead of escaping with the rest and Ciril saving Dedra, thus giving us the long awaited "wth is this plot about, ffs?" resolution. That one was such a slow burn and paid off so well, the making of of a huge Andor antagonist. That's the way you build mysteries into series (compared to RoP, bleh).

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How did you totally misunderstand or at least not get what was going on? Mothma wasn't just looking to throw off the ISB for the missing money, she was looking for alternative banking avenues. She still needs to fund the Rebellion AND she needs to keep the ISB off her. The convo with her husband is to throw off the ISB, and the deal with the gangster is to insure a flow of credits into the Rebellion. If she kept spending the way she was, the ISB would eventually figure out that the spending wasn't just gambling.

On the another note. I absolutely love this series. It had fan service that felt earned in the story and just not "Hey Hey, remember this? You like this right?" I think Andor is the best Star Wars Disney+ show to date. Mando Season 1 was good, but Andor blew it out of the water for me. I hope season 2 happens because this was amazingly well done. The characters are all feel real and not just set pieces on a board.

Just a minor disagreement here. The gangster deal was to seal off the 400k credit hole in her bank movements. Obviously, it will turn as her new way of financing the Rebellion, but that's bound to be decided in S2 as a new challenge for her. Or maybe not. Either way, we will happily see.

Total agreement about the best SW show till today. Mostly because of its innovations and change of character. It's mature, cerebral, gritty, lacking the cuteness of the OT, the idealisation of the Rebellion, and replacing them with hard, painful and edgy truths and choices.

[Ragedaug]

Too bad they'll likely learn the wrong lesson from Andor and just give us more Nostalgia/fan service driven shows and movies.

Nostalgia and fan service isn't bad. Andor actually has tons in dialogue and call backs, but they are worked so seamlessly into the narrative that unless you are paying attention, they don't stand out. Unlike the Obi-wan show where callbacks and fan service were advertised or teased at point.

I think fan service should always be the goal. Fans pay money to consume your product, and providing excellent service is how you make sure your customers give you repeat business. As good as Andor is, and as much as I've enjoyed watching it, if it was not based in the Star Wars universe it's highly unlikely I would have given it a chance. There's tons of great TV series I've never watched. It's all the nostalgia and 'member berries' going around in my head which make me excited to see what new Star Wars show/movie is coming out. If they remove the fan service, you remove the nostalgia, and your show becomes one of a thousand other shows out there struggling to find a fan base. Then when/if you find a new fan base, just don't service them either? Removing fan service seems like the 101 course of "how to quickly destroy your own business in one easy step".

All that said, you can't shoe horn fan service into the product. You can't overwhelm the fan with fan service to the point that you aren't writing good stories. And to your first point, it seems like these producers are always learning the wrong lesson, when the right lesson is always right in front of them: write a good story.

That said, if you are paying $4 Billion for a preexisting fan base, while you still need a good story, you also need to make sure that story is something that the fan base you purchased wants to see. (just saying, give them fans a little service).

[Darththeo]

Just a minor disagreement here. The gangster deal was to seal off the 400k credit hole in her bank movements. Obviously, it will turn as her new way of financing the Rebellion, but that's bound to be decided in S2 as a new challenge for her. Or maybe not. Either way, we will happily see.

Wouldn't really call that disagreement, because it isn't actually contrary to what I said. But, yes, you are correct. I was pointing out that Waffles didn't see that there were two reasons that Mothma was looking for alternative banking, getting the ISB off her only solves one of those problems.

Total agreement about the best SW show till today. Mostly because of its innovations and change of character. It's mature, cerebral, gritty, lacking the cuteness of the OT, the idealisation of the Rebellion, and replacing them with hard, painful and edgy truths and choices.

This show made me feel like the Empire were actually villains in the universe and not just faceless mobs to fight against.

I absolutely adore this show because it is about building to the hope of a better future. It plays directly into what Rogue One and then the OT is. I honestly hope that Andor Season 2 is true, I want more of this.

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I think fan service should always be the goal. Fans pay money to consume your product, and providing excellent service is how you make sure your customers give you repeat business. As good as Andor is, and as much as I've enjoyed watching it, if it was not based in the Star Wars universe it's highly unlikely I would have given it a chance. There's tons of great TV series I've never watched. It's all the nostalgia and 'member berries' going around in my head which make me excited to see what new Star Wars show/movie is coming out. If they remove the fan service, you remove the nostalgia, and your show becomes one of a thousand other shows out there struggling to find a fan base. Then when/if you find a new fan base, just don't service them either? Removing fan service seems like the 101 course of "how to quickly destroy your own business in one easy step".

All that said, you can't shoe horn fan service into the product. You can't overwhelm the fan with fan service to the point that you aren't writing good stories. And to your first point, it seems like these producers are always learning the wrong lesson, when the right lesson is always right in front of them: write a good story.

That said, if you are paying $4 Billion for a preexisting fan base, while you still need a good story, you also need to make sure that story is something that the fan base you purchased wants to see. (just saying, give them fans a little service).

As I said, Fan Service itself isn't bad. It is bad when it is the selling point or they are pointing at it. Look at the teasing of "Hello there" in the Kenobi series. Reva was a youngling who survived Anakin slaughtering her friends. Even Vader vs Obi-wan in the series was fan service. Everything appeared to just be fan service. The only fan service thing that I didn't get mad at was the Clone Trooper appearance, because that felt natural in the series. But the rest was just "Hey remember this? You like this right?"

Now with Andor, you have the Rakata reference with the kyber crystal. Spoken dialogue and fans who know what that is went crazy. The shop has tons of easter eggs in it, but they make sense because the shop is about relics, so having those things there make sense. Referencing the movies with how scenes were shot work. And all this fan service is naturally woven into the show, none of it feels out of place or done so for the purpose of appealing to nostalgia. There are tons of references and call backs in Andor, hell, I could argue as much or even more than Kenobi or Mandalorian Season 2 at least. But, they don't take away from the narrative, unlike what prior seasons did.

[Ihavewaffles]

How did you totally misunderstand or at least not get what was going on? Mothma wasn't just looking to throw off the ISB for the missing money, she was looking for alternative banking avenues. She still needs to fund the Rebellion AND she needs to keep the ISB off her. The convo with her husband is to throw off the ISB, and the deal with the gangster is to insure a flow of credits into the Rebellion. If she kept spending the way she was, the ISB would eventually figure out that the spending wasn't just gambling.

On the another note. I absolutely love this series. It had fan service that felt earned in the story and just not "Hey Hey, remember this? You like this right?" I think Andor is the best Star Wars Disney+ show to date. Mando Season 1 was good, but Andor blew it out of the water for me. I hope season 2 happens because this was amazingly well done. The characters are all feel real and not just set pieces on a board.

She wanted to get out of the empire's lense, not enlist a gangster.. I have to say I'm disappointed in her decision to fight the empire by taking into her family gangsters, foolish even, as if a crook like that wouldn't want to take control over her finances n then sell out the rebels when it becomes profitable to do so..

She should have spoken to Luthen before making these decisions..

[Darththeo]

She wanted to get out of the empire's lense, not enlist a gangster.. I have to say I'm disappointed in her decision to fight the empire by taking into her family gangsters, foolish even, as if a crook like that wouldn't want to take control over her finances n then sell out the rebels when it becomes profitable to do so..

Yes, that's kind of the point of Mon Mothma's storyline in Andor. At some point, Mon Mothma needs to flee as she becomes hunted by the Empire and they find out she was funding the rebellion. So, it will not be surprising to anyone who knows the lore, if what you said is exactly how it happens.

[Fabinas]

She wanted to get out of the empire's lense, not enlist a gangster.. I have to say I'm disappointed in her decision to fight the empire by taking into her family gangsters, foolish even, as if a crook like that wouldn't want to take control over her finances n then sell out the rebels when it becomes profitable to do so..

She should have spoken to Luthen before making these decisions..

She already spoke to Luthen. She didn't take the gangsters in her family. Yet. She agreed to a meeting, not a betrothal. She obviously hopes that either the kid won't appeal to her daughter or that, along with her husband (despite her enstrangement with him) will convince their daughter to not go along the Chandrilan way.

The rest are your fears. The gangster is into buying political influence in Coruscant, while staying out of Empire's way. There's no way he'd sell out the mother of his kid's wife, unless the "profit" was her life or theirs.

[Ihavewaffles]

She already spoke to Luthen. She didn't take the gangsters in her family. Yet. She agreed to a meeting, not a betrothal. She obviously hopes that either the kid won't appeal to her daughter or that, along with her husband (despite her enstrangement with him) will convince their daughter to not go along the Chandrilan way.

The rest are your fears. The gangster is into buying political influence in Coruscant, while staying out of Empire's way. There's no way he'd sell out the mother of his kid's wife, unless the "profit" was her life or theirs.

Yes, because gangsters are known for holding back n not being greedy opportunist scums..

[Fabinas]

Yes, because gangsters are known for holding back n not being greedy opportunist scums..

You're generalising here and before. While you may prove to be right in the future, the story doesn't seem to go that way yet.

Mind you, when you give someone up, you still have to ensure you're valuable or not responsible for malice, else an Empire might take you and the person you sell out in one swift stroke.

[Twdft]

I think Andor is the best Star Wars Disney+ show to date. Mando Season 1 was good, but Andor blew it out of the water for me. I hope season 2 happens because this was amazingly well done. The characters are all feel real and not just set pieces on a board.

Yeah, Andor is great.

What's amazing for me too, is how they ended season 1 in a way that neatly sets up a second season but if that somehow never gets done it wouldn't matter since you can watch Rogue One right after this and it would work too.

And that end credit scene... holy fuck how satisfying was that. It makes the prisons hit harder and also explains why they grab people from the streets for the smallest offence and hand out 6y sentences like candy. Season 1 going out with a punch like a truck.