[TV] Disney+ Star Wars: Cassian Andor

[Zafire]

Anyone else wondering about this "Uncle Harlow" that got brought up several times over the course of three episodes? My GF feels like it was just a random name being used as a plot device, but I felt like they were going to do something with it.

[rhorle]

The events of the arc are not mentioned in canon anywhere but the arc itself.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Phases_of_Mortis

The location is referenced in canon elsewhere. It not being mentioned doesn't mean much because most of the stories of the Star Wars universe do not get mentioned again. That doesn't make them "wiped" from characters that were part of those stories. It just wasn't relevant to bring up or mention. They can do cool things without having to show how it is part of canon. Hence how we got a the Fondor, a cool ship, without any accompanying justification for its existence.

I'm not lying. I'm not being dishonest. There is no reason to be hostile and angry over a simple and civil discussion. Of course there are more walls then just "can't be maimed or died". It was a generic example of what can't be done with characters. Mortis was development that didn't have to be forgotten in order to get characters to the point the were in the OT. Obviously they can't know about it because it took place after those were created but there is no reason why it can't be further explored with new stories. It isn't an example of a wall to character development.

[Fencers]

Beaurecracy, your evil knows no bounds.

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This is one of the best written shows I have seen this year. And I seen a lot.

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Andy Fucking Serkis. Hot damn!

[PACOX]

Anyone else wondering about this "Uncle Harlow" that got brought up several times over the course of three episodes? My GF feels like it was just a random name being used as a plot device, but I felt like they were going to do something with it.

I'm going to be 90% honest, 10% memeing. I don't think Syrils mom is real. He gives me serial vibes, and she is a part of a disorder. Gilroy is the only SW content creator I think would go that route. But yeah her dialogue is that of someone talking to a persona in their head, even her mannerisms, the clothes she wears, and where she chooses to sit. I'm going to assume she only exists in his head (well she is his mom who was alive at some point but died) until someone else acknowledges her existence.


Uncle Harlow is an addendum to his psychosis. Uncle Harlow, who was likely a real person in his life, is now someone who just lives in his head. He really just lives alone in the apartment, and the voices fill the silence. His apartment scenes just scream tropes used to depict psychotic characters in other movies.


edit:

I decided to Google, "Is Syrils mom real" after this post and apparently I'm not the only one

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...edy-star-wars/

[Darththeo]

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Phases_of_Mortis

The location is referenced in canon elsewhere. It not being mentioned doesn't mean much because most of the stories of the Star Wars universe do not get mentioned again. That doesn't make them "wiped" from characters that were part of those stories. It just wasn't relevant to bring up or mention. They can do cool things without having to show how it is part of canon. Hence how we got a the Fondor, a cool ship, without any accompanying justification for its existence.

I'm not lying. I'm not being dishonest. There is no reason to be hostile and angry over a simple and civil discussion. Of course there are more walls then just "can't be maimed or died". It was a generic example of what can't be done with characters. Mortis was development that didn't have to be forgotten in order to get characters to the point the were in the OT. Obviously they can't know about it because it took place after those were created but there is no reason why it can't be further explored with new stories. It isn't an example of a wall to character development.

We literally see parts of it wiped from Anakin in an episode.

I am not saying "Mortis didn't happen." Or "Mortis isn't canon." The events happened, I never claimed they didn't. I am arguing about how they were handled.

So, yes, you are lying and are being dishonest. You are literally attacking a strawman of my point. My argument was how they handled the Mortis arc is done so in a way that has little impact on the growth of the characters. The fact it is never referenced again in Clone Wars, and only the characters appear later, it is done so specifically to cast doubt on whether or not the character's know anything.

And again, I am going to emphasized, you are 100% beyond all reasonable doubt being dishonest. This argument is about the characters and what they get to experience. And somehow, you spun that into me making a claim that Mortis itself doesn't exist. Dishonest is the only way to describe that.

[rhorle]

I'm going to be 90% honest, 10% memeing. I don't think Syrils mom is real.

It is possible. There was a Moff Harlow in the old EU. It is possible his uncle is a Moff and it is a "easter egg". The "imagination" doesn't seem to work with his new job unless the person showing him around was also in his head.

[Fencers]

The Scottish guy recognized and referenced Karn's mom when he called Karn about Andor's mom passing.

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Vel was kinda annoying to me. Bitch, are you about it or what? Because you're sending mixed signals.

[rhorle]

So, yes, you are lying and are being dishonest. You are literally attacking a strawman of my point. My argument was how they handled the Mortis arc is done so in a way that has little impact on the growth of the characters. The fact it is never referenced again in Clone Wars, and only the characters appear later, it is done so specifically to cast doubt on whether or not the character's know anything.

I'm not lying. I'm not being dishonest. I'm not sure you even understand your point if the wipe was part of the story. It wasn't wiped because of a requirement for the characters to later be at point B. It was wiped as a plot device and just never continued from there. Your originally comments were not about being wiped from just the characters but that it was required to be removed to "keep canon". It is just a story, one of many in the Star Wars EU, that happened and hasn't yet been revisited.

Knowledge of the future wasn't wiped from Yoda as he learns some of what is to come in the last episodes of Season 6 of the Clone Wars. They gave Yoda knowledge of what was going to happen and let him knowing and not doing anything to stop it be part of his character. Different choices and different character development.

The Mortis Arc had to be erased from the memories in order to keep canon

[Witchblade77]

The Scottish guy recognized and referenced Karn's mom when he called Karn about Andor's mom passing.

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Vel was kinda annoying to me. Bitch, are you about it or what? Because you're sending mixed signals.

I think Vel is supposed to be sending mixed signals. cause on one hand she IS about it, but on the other hand... she finally finds someone she falls in love with and rebellion is majorly getting in a way of that. at first it was something they had in common and now that very thing divides them. so yeah... she is conflicted as hell. doesn't help that she grew up privileged rich girl.

honestly I really love it just how flawed and messy all the characters are. makes them so much more fun to watch.

[Darththeo]

I'm not lying. I'm not being dishonest. I'm not sure you even understand your point if the wipe was part of the story. It wasn't wiped because of a requirement for the characters to later be at point B. It was wiped as a plot device and just never continued from there. Your originally comments were not about being wiped from just the characters but that it was required to be removed to "keep canon". It is just a story, one of many in the Star Wars EU, that happened and hasn't yet been revisited.

Knowledge of the future wasn't wiped from Yoda as he learns some of what is to come in the last episodes of Season 6 of the Clone Wars. They gave Yoda knowledge of what was going to happen and let him knowing and not doing anything to stop it be part of his character. Different choices and different character development.

Yes, you are dishonest. And the fact you can quote me and prove you are showing you are being dishonest and pretending you aren't is grade A attempt to gaslight.

We are talking about characters who exist in canon. I said erased from memories, the story itself doesn't have memories, characters do. Again, you are continuing to prove you built a strawman and rather than admit you did so, continue to pretend you are blameless. You are showing proof I was speaking solely about characters and still have the audacity to pretend your strawman is remotely accurate.

You built a strawman, argued against it, and have attempt to gaslight me into believing that was my point. Sorry, you are dishonest. You cannot honestly make the conclusion on my argument you did. This is clearly an intentional strawman on your part.

[Fencers]

honestly I really love it just how flawed and messy all the characters are. makes them so much more fun to watch.

Yup. You're on the money about everything. One of the things I disliked about the Obi Wan show was how one dimensional many of the characters were written. I enjoyed the more rounded characters in Andor while still fitting yhe pulp-asventure of the franchise.

Tony Gilroy wrote the fuck out of this.

[rhorle]

We are talking about characters who exist in canon. I said erased from memories, the story itself doesn't have memories, characters do.

The characters are part of the story. The memory wipe was part of the story. Why are you trying to argue that they are not? I didn't build a strawman because I've been addressing your point and refuting it about the Mortis arc. It was not a limiting factor to character development as the Yoda arc proved. Despite knowledge of the future Yoda still ending up at the OT spot. It gave him character development. The memory wipe and what they do and don't remember gave the other characters development.

It was a different choice by the writers but neither was done because they were required to. You can continue to insult and deflect with buzzwords all you want but it doesn't actually make you correct.

[Darththeo]

The characters are part of the story. The memory wipe was part of the story. Why are you trying to argue that they are not? I didn't build a strawman because I've been addressing your point and refuting it about the Mortis arc. It was not a limiting factor to character development as the Yoda arc proved. Despite knowledge of the future Yoda still ending up at the OT spot. It gave him character development. The memory wipe and what they do and don't remember gave the other characters development.

It was a different choice by the writers but neither was done because they were required to. You can continue to insult and deflect with buzzwords all you want but it doesn't actually make you correct.

Your argument were "Mortis Arc appears in Rebels" ... it doesn't. The characters appear in a mural, that isn't the arc appearing. That isn't proving that any character involve remember it. Anakin, Obi-wan, nor Ahsoka appear for that scene. It is literally just Ezra and Sabine. It is for fans, not the arc. This attempt here is only dishonest, it has no value in the argument.

Your argument is that there is a Mortis reference in books that appear in TLJ. That's irrelevant, not referenced to the characters. Just because an ancient Jedi knew of Mortis does not mean anything to the Mortis Arc as in this discussion.

Yoda arc was different because only one character experienced it, it isnt even relevant because it isn't connected to Mortis. But, let's play your silly game here. What in that arc did Yoda actually see that wasn't explained as a Force Vision? Which canonly described as hard to see/decipher; so a character we know doubts the visions, would somehow not doubt visions? It just proves there is a wall you are ignoring. Yoda has two lines in the movies stating essentially the same thing that difficult to see the future is and what he sees are visions in the force, some of which are manipulated by Palpatine himself.

You literally built a strawman and are lying about doing it. The only other explanation is you are not actually paying attention and just spouting the first thing off your head rather than actually respond. Regardless of what it is, there is no way you have honestly approached this discussion.

Again, I have explained to you WHY I brought up Mortis. Was to show that when they did something cool with the characters, they had to do things to keep inline with canon. You took this to make it seem like I argued Mortis isn't canon. That's literally strawmanning my argument. You cannot claim you didn't, because I have explained to you exactly how you did. You strawmanned, this isn't a debatable point. And if you were anyway honest and this wasn't intentional, you would have apologized for it. You haven't.

Stop pretending you are honest, you haven't been.

[rhorle]

Your argument were "Mortis Arc appears in Rebels" ... it doesn't.

A reference to it is an appearance. Just because it isn't in-depth doesn't mean it didn't appear. A character being saved from death, because of the connection, is still an appearance. You can't seperate the Mortis Arc for all other mentions of it. Because they are all the same things getting more development. Your argument is basically saying because Darth Vader fell into the lava in Revenge of the Sith we can't use that to explain why he is in a mechanical suit in Rebels. The two are connected.

The Yoda arc was not different just because one character experienced it. It doesn't matter that it isn't connected to Mortis (though he does ask Anakin about a force ghost he saw in Mortis). It is still knowledge of the future. The same thing you stated had to be erased in the Mortis arc to maintain canon. It isn't a silly game. It is direct proof that your claim is false. It didn't need to be erased from memory to maintain canon. Knowledge of the future didn't have to change how characters appeared in past (future to the show) content.

I'm not lying about anything here. It is strange that the only way to honestly approach a discussion according to you is to agree with whatever it is that you say. They didn't have to erase it from the characters memory to keep it inline with canon. They chose to do it that way but were not required to. I never once said that you thought Mortis wasn't canon. It is hilarious that a person that keeps shouting "strawman" is creating one yourself.

I have to apologize because I disagree with you in order to be considered honest? You sure are arrogant. Does this mean you are lying and dishonest because you haven't apologized for insulting me and being hostile?

[Darththeo]

I have to apologize because I disagree with you in order to be considered honest? You sure are arrogant. Does this mean you are lying and dishonest because you haven't apologized for insulting me and being hostile?

Wow, you are certainly a bold one. I explained I am hostile because you strawmanned. You aren't "disagreeing" you are changing my argument.

"Your argument is basically saying because Darth Vader fell into the lava in Revenge of the Sith we can't use that to explain why he is in a mechanical suit in Rebels. The two are connected."

This isn't what the argument is. This is changing words, changing meaning. It is literally a strawman. Showing up =/= referenced. References include easter eggs, easter eggs aren't showing up. What you are doing is conflating food with meat. All meat is food, but not all food is meat. The Mortis reference in the TLJ books is literally an Easter Egg for fans. RoS literally has a Revan easter egg, it doesn't mean KotOR was remade into Canon.

Darth Vader in Rebels is literally just the character appearing, it is not a reference to his duel on Mustafar because nothing about why Vader is in Rebels has to do directly with that duel. Yes, the duel happen. Yes, the reason for the suit is the duel. But that isn't the duel "showing up" in Rebels. That's nonsense statement.

Also, you avoided my question. What in the Yoda's arc cannot be explained by a Force vision? Also, notice the only reference was Qui-Gon, a past event, not future. It's different. That arc's writing is done in a manner as Yoda experiencing force visions. Therefore, we can't be certain he even spoke to Anakin in Voices about it.

The fact you think you been honest is a joke.

I have explained my argument isn't Mortis isn't canon or Mortis isn't referenced later. It was that how the Mortis arc was handled was done so in a way not to disturb the growth of the characters from the movies. All your points do nothing to address my argument. None of your parts are relevant to that.

[rhorle]

Showing up =/= referenced.

How can something be referenced with out showing up? When it is used for an easter egg, fan service, or reference it is required to have shown up in that medium. Otherwise it wouldn't be a reference, easter egg, fan service, etc because it wouldn't be present. I'm not conflating food with meat. Again you create a strawman.

Your question is a red herring. It doesn't matter if things can be explained otherwise. What matters is that he had knowledge of the future but it was not wiped in order to keep canon. I'm not sure why you are missing that key detail and reason for it being brought up. Yoda had visions of Order 66, the younglings being killed, and even says to Mace Windu and Obi-wan that the war is lost but the future can still be won. He was using what he learned to play 4d chess to defeat the emperor.

The writers could have done the same with Mortis. Incorporated it into the story both past and future. They chose not to by doing a partial memory wipe. It wasn't a memory wipe, in the story, because the writers had to follow canon of the OT. There are plenty of different ways they can approach things and still have a character arrive at their original appearance.

[Darththeo]

How can something be referenced with out showing up? When it is used for an easter egg, fan service, or reference it is required to have shown up in that medium. Otherwise it wouldn't be a reference, easter egg, fan service, etc because it wouldn't be present. I'm not conflating food with meat. Again you create a strawman.

Why do I bother with you? I have explained this to you.

The arc showing up would be a direct impact to the story. Mortis arc is irrelevant to Rebels outside of the Gods being on the Mural. Even if you have no understanding of the arc, even if the arc was deleted from canon, it does not change the story of Rebels in the slightest. It isn't the arc, it is a reference to the characters of the arc. The only mention is someone referencing "a" report, without specifics, from the Jedi Archives, which literally does not need to be the arc.

You said the ARC not the CHARACTERS show up. The arc doesn't not show up, the arc is merely referenced. Tell me, what about the Mortis arc is needed for the Rebels story? If you answer is anything other than nothing, you are being dishonest.

And as I stated before, this response has nothing to do with the original argument. I have attempted to get you back to the original point and you keep this dishonest bs of yours going.

Again, Revan is referenced in RoS. It doesn't make anything about KotOR canon beside the name. It has nothing to do with how that character is, was, or is going to be handled. The conversation was about that when they do cool stuff in Clone Wars, they had always shaded it with something to make sure not to be outside the lines that movie canon drew. Nothing you brought up deals with my original argument, it is petty bs.

[rhorle]

So, the events of Star Wars are canon to the Indiana Jones movies?

It is funny how you say that you didn't argue Mortis is non-canon while making a remark that implies that is what you are going for. Because you are arguing that Mortis showing up in Rebels would have to be non-canon if your Indiana Jones question is given the answer you want. The things that reference Star Wars in Indiana Jones have shown up in the movie. Otherwise they wouldn't exist to be seen in the movie.

References to Mortis in other works are simply not out of canon easter eggs. It is part of canon which is why it keeps getting referenced in various Star Wars media. https://www.starwars.com/databank/mortis

[Darththeo]

It is funny how you say that you didn't argue Mortis is non-canon while making a remark that implies that is what you are going for.

Apparently sarcastic questions are difficult for you to decipher. I am asking you if you believe that events of the Star Wars movies are canon to the Indiana Jones storyline? If you know that it is just an easter egg, then you actually understand that references aren't relevant here.

The arc is specifically the events. What about the arc appears in Rebels? It is to point out that you are mistaken in saying the arc appears in Rebels. The arc does not appear. The gods are referenced, just because a character is referenced does not mean all events that character was a part of are also referenced.

The arc does not show up in Rebels, period. The events of the Mortis arc are irrelevant to the story of Rebels. Yes, Mortis is canon and happened; but it happened in a way to limit its impact on canon story for the movie characters involved in the story. My original point, which you disagreed with, was that when the Clone Wars did cool stuff, they always shaded it with things to keep it inline with what canon had. You haven't addressed that directly just go "LOL, BUT MORTIS IS CANON!"

[rhorle]

The arc does not show up in Rebels, period. The events of the Mortis arc are irrelevant to the story of Rebels.

A mural of the Father, Son, and Daughter pulling a person into a world between worlds is related to the Mortis arc. Could any mural have worked? Sure. The writers choosing that specific one creates a relation.

Do you have any direct statements that the mortis arc contained a memory wipe to limit its impact on canon story? We've already established her that knowledge of the future doesn't impact canon story for movie characters. Unless you evidence to back up your claim it was just done the way it was because they wanted to. It could be revisted at any time. You know like they did with certain parts when Yoda asks Anakin about his vision of Qui-gon in Mortis. Or the daughter, now living in a bird, showing up at various Ahsoka spots. Cool stuff still happened. Cool stuff can still happen on Andor even with Rogue One.

The movies don't limit development of characters that much because they don't have much in-depth background or mention of past events. Even something like Mortis, and seeing visions of the future, can be explained away just as you did with Yoda. It really is the major things like death that limits development. Though since Ahsoka has been revived multiple times (and even Rey) it is just a story away from working with canon already set in stone. Even losing limbs or major internal damage is one "cyborg tech with realistic skin" away from working. Just like Fennec Shand appears unchanged even with her new internals.