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  1. #201
    The Lightbringer City Pop's Avatar
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    Idk how you'd track it. I think people have a right to leave if it's a total wipefest and not getting anywhere.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by City Pop View Post
    Idk how you'd track it. I think people have a right to leave if it's a total wipefest and not getting anywhere.
    If this is the case then yes I think it can be okay to leave, but the reasons some people have said they left in earlier posts is ridiculous.

  3. #203
    This is like saying, 'should new hires at a company have their paycheck forfeited'

    Nah. You know the risk/reward going in. You accept the good outcome, but not accept the bad? I think you need to rethink how this works.

    What's next, penalize those in heriocs who leave after X boss because they only needed that one loot item? NAH. We know that's a risk. We take it.

    "but you can't add people once the M+ is set" CRY ME A RIVER. there are too many keys out there to complain about this aspect. If that's the problem you mainly have, then address that aspect of it. But honestly, if it doesn't pan out the way you hoped, you shouldn't be given mercy.
    Last edited by scelero; 2020-01-07 at 07:14 PM.

  4. #204
    very rarely do people leave good groups.

    my 2c

  5. #205
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123youshowme View Post
    very rarely do people leave good groups.

    my 2c
    Yeah, I've never left any groups that's good. I've left a lot of groups with bad players. Like when I was going to do a weekly 10, joined a group going specifically for it and not planning to time it. Like, ok, I don't care if it takes a while.

    First pack wipe because the dps was so low and the tank didn't know how to reset necrotic. Second pack wipe because same thing. Third pack too. 3 times on third pack. I just left, not worth the repair bill or time to continue with that group.

  6. #206
    Certainly, but we should apply this for all game content:

    Leave m+? No m+ for the rest of the reset.
    Leave a raid? Raid essence removed and blocked from loot until reset.
    Leave arena? Arena rating, MMR, games played and wins reset to 0 for the season.
    Leave a world quest unfinished? All world quests removed from your map until reset.
    Leave a pet battle? All pets you used removed from your character.
    Leave a transmog run in an old raid? All transmog you have from that raid so far removed.
    Leave a battleground? Honor levels reset to 1.
    Leave an island expedition? Neck reset to level 50 and worldvein essence removed.
    Leave an RBG? All titles removed, rating and MMR reset to 0.

    There we go, now we can finally enjoy the game and nobody leaves anything.

  7. #207
    if you don't want others to leave your group, improve your skill.

    good people in m+ leave, because its not in time any more. You want everyone to stay for your weekly? Open a group with "weekly" and invite people that def. need the run. Check their RIO. Complaining about the free choice of a different human being is cringe.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Certainly, but we should apply this for all game content:

    Leave m+? No m+ for the rest of the reset.
    Leave a raid? Raid essence removed and blocked from loot until reset.
    Leave arena? Arena rating, MMR, games played and wins reset to 0 for the season.
    Leave a world quest unfinished? All world quests removed from your map until reset.
    Leave a pet battle? All pets you used removed from your character.
    Leave a transmog run in an old raid? All transmog you have from that raid so far removed.
    Leave a battleground? Honor levels reset to 1.
    Leave an island expedition? Neck reset to level 50 and worldvein essence removed.
    Leave an RBG? All titles removed, rating and MMR reset to 0.

    There we go, now we can finally enjoy the game and nobody leaves anything.
    Out of all those, only like 2-3 are actually activities that automatically fail when someone leaves and you can't replace them. Leaving m+ included.

    Also, idiotic penalties like "Removing everything"...not sure what the aim of this was, but if it was to prove that penalizing leaving m+ is nonsense than you most certainly failed.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    It would discourage people to leave groups. That is it. If someone has a high number of leavings, then it's obviously because it's some prick that usually bails at the first sign of trouble.
    This isn't about people with 1-5 leavings, but about people with higher than that. Sure, a nr. of leavings can be justified, it happens, but when it's someone with a significant number, then it says something about that person.

    And like I said, no one wants to rake up negative stats.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If it's checked by Raider.io, then people can see that the person is suspicious, and will avoid grouping up with that person.
    So im doing +16 runs and i want to time it to increase my score.

    My tank always pulls 4 to 5 packs at once because he thinks that this is a good idea.
    We keep wiping.
    My healer, a disc priest, thinks that shadow mend is his only real heal.
    We keep wiping.

    That might happen at the first few pulls or at the last.
    Maybe you cant stay around for 3 hours to finish that key.

    Why should there be a penalty for players who leave in such situations?
    How do you want the system to determine wether you are a spoiled brat or if the others really are that bad that the key is undoable for that group composition?

    I am not afriad to admit that i am a leaver.
    Before the start of every dungeon i clearly ask what the goal of that key is.
    If we want to time it and that will obviously not happen, im out.

    And i really dont see why i should receive a penalty. In the end you signed up for a game mode where the goal is to clear a dungeon in a given time. If you obviously wont get to that goal what'S the point?

    If you want runs to be finished for your weekly search for weekly keys.
    IF you want runs for gearing search for that.

    If it's a tyrannical week and you wipe to the first boss which takes ages due to high health it'S absolutely ok to leave if you made it clear what the goal is.
    If you furthermore see beforehand at the trash and boss dps that you cant make the timer why waste the time?

    In the end it'a a group activity. If you demand penalties for players who dont have the same mindset as you then you are probably also a little brat.

  10. #210
    There are several frustrating elements of M+ that could actually be reworked to make it not so bad.

    Failing the timer on a key just leaves you at the same key level. Could could still drop the level of a key on purpose. Maybe even have a place to take keys that reduces the level by one but gives you a random dungeon on it.

    People could be replaced, but it immediately invalidates the timer. That way there's no real punishment for the rest of you when somebody unexpectedly drops group. The only person punished is them.

  11. #211
    IF ''leaving'' a M+ will be punishable by whatever, they will either not leave and just AFK out (or do nothing until the rest is so annoyed that THEY leave) or ALT-F4 alltogether, then blame it on connection issues.

    How to separate connection issues from leaving? Its not possible, only with a ranking system that shows how many times a player left m+ group (for whatever reason)

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    Failing the timer on a key just leaves you at the same key level. Could could still drop the level of a key on purpose.
    WoW's M+ key system is the improved Diablo3 Greater Rift system. You are asking for a downgrade, the finishing for perfect/easy keys in D3 is not something you want to copy.

    The only issue there is, that its only 1 key and the owner of the key penalized with bailing players. You dont see this in raiding or arena, since you either lose the shared ID for the week or you lose personal MMR and personal rating aswell.

    A solution might be, that keys are shared for a run. Your weekly chest will be scaled of YOUR OWN HIGHEST KEY OF THE WEEK.

    A) you get +1/-1 for timed/nontimed runs for the whole group, if the own key is same/lower as group key
    B) you get +0 for a nontimed run, if your key is higher as the group key, but this resets to A) after each not-finished run. If you want to help and bail, your next dungeon needs to be finished or your own/higher key is punished with -1
    C) you get -ALL and lose your key, if you bail and your own key is lower as the group key

    => EVERYONE will look for dungeon runs with keys same/under the own key - basicly a community driven raider.io filter
    => HELPERS will not be punished for helping, but after 1 not finished run they lose the key protection and will get the same treatment as everyone else
    => LEECHERS will be punished for bailing

    It would make finishing the dungeon the standard and would punish repeated bailing and even more bailing from leechers.

    And yes, this would kill boosting for sure.
    Last edited by Ange; 2020-01-08 at 01:31 PM.
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  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    WoW's M+ key system is the improved Diablo3 Greater Rift system. You are asking for a downgrade, the finishing for perfect/easy keys in D3 is not something you want to copy.

    The only issue there is, that its only 1 key and the owner of the key penalized with bailing players. You dont see this in raiding or arena, since you either lose the shared ID for the week or you lose personal MMR and personal rating aswell.

    A solution might be, that keys are shared for a run.

    A) you get +1/-1 for timed/nontimed runs for the whole group, if the own key is same/lower as group key
    B) you get +0 for a nontimed run, if your key is higher as the group key, but this resets to A) after each not-finished run. If you want to help and bail, your next dungeon needs to be finished or your own/higher key is punished with -1
    C) you get -ALL and lose your key, if you bail and your own key is lower as the group key

    => EVERYONE will look for dungeon runs with keys same/under the own key - basicly a community driven raider.io filter
    => HELPERS will not be punished for helping, but after 1 not finished run they lose the key protection and will get the same treatment as everyone else
    => LEECHERS will be punished for bailing

    It would make finishing the dungeon the standard and would punish repeated bailing and even more bailing from leechers.
    horrible idea

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by 123youshowme View Post
    horrible idea
    You get the same max-key for your weekly as if you play right now the highest key you can do.
    You get only +1 to your own key, even if you buy a boost.
    You get -1 for repeated bailing and -ALL/weekly reset for repeated bailing without meeting the groups keys level.

    What is horrible about that?
    hidden information WoWArmory | Raider.IO | WoWProg | logs Logs1 | Logs2 | Logs3

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    You get the same max-key for your weekly as if you play right now the highest key you can do.
    You get only +1 to your own key, even if you buy a boost.
    You get -1 for repeated bailing and -ALL/weekly reset for repeated bailing without meeting the groups keys level.

    What is horrible about that?
    Being penalized for leaving shitters.

    anyway i dunno why i'm arguing on mmo-c cus it's not like any of yalls horrible ideas see the light of day

  16. #216
    Nope, because it's not possible to determine if someone left because he's a douche (and there are, was carrying a friend through a +2 or 3, and the tank left because someone pulled an extra pack because he got feared into it ... a pack even cleared easily without him doing anything), had a good reason (can't really expect someone to finish your m+ if there's an earthquake) or forced to leave (imagine joining a group and all others go afk for 30minutes or more or a group where someone wipes you on purpose over and over).
    Last edited by kranur; 2020-01-08 at 01:51 PM.

  17. #217
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonqt View Post
    So im doing +16 runs and i want to time it to increase my score.

    My tank always pulls 4 to 5 packs at once because he thinks that this is a good idea.
    We keep wiping.
    My healer, a disc priest, thinks that shadow mend is his only real heal.
    We keep wiping.

    That might happen at the first few pulls or at the last.
    Maybe you cant stay around for 3 hours to finish that key.

    Why should there be a penalty for players who leave in such situations?
    How do you want the system to determine wether you are a spoiled brat or if the others really are that bad that the key is undoable for that group composition?

    I am not afriad to admit that i am a leaver.
    Before the start of every dungeon i clearly ask what the goal of that key is.
    If we want to time it and that will obviously not happen, im out.

    And i really dont see why i should receive a penalty. In the end you signed up for a game mode where the goal is to clear a dungeon in a given time. If you obviously wont get to that goal what'S the point?

    If you want runs to be finished for your weekly search for weekly keys.
    IF you want runs for gearing search for that.

    If it's a tyrannical week and you wipe to the first boss which takes ages due to high health it'S absolutely ok to leave if you made it clear what the goal is.
    If you furthermore see beforehand at the trash and boss dps that you cant make the timer why waste the time?

    In the end it'a a group activity. If you demand penalties for players who dont have the same mindset as you then you are probably also a little brat.
    You queue up for BGs with the pre determined goal to win but there is a penalty for leaving it.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    You queue up for BGs with the pre determined goal to win but there is a penalty for leaving it.
    This doesn't make sense. A battleground is a battle. Leaving your squad in that situation is not something you do. The mindset is kill or be killed. You don't leave until it's done. Some places in time actually kill those who flee the battlefield.

    M+ is an adventure. You choose to go on that quest. Plenty of examples of people leaving an expedition early for various reasons.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    What is horrible about that?
    It only works for people who care about doing safe&easy weekly keys, and want to take no risks.

    And god forbid you get a KR+24 early in the week. That key is dead till the last day of the week; no one will help you with weekly +24 while they still have +22s and +23s in their bags. Right now you at least have an option to spend 90 minutes struggling through it and hope that it turns into a good +23 key next.

    Does not even have to be a KR key. Any progression is killed. A group that is timing all +17s and depleting all +18s will get 5 times less attempts to time their first +18 key ever.
    Last edited by ID811717; 2020-01-08 at 02:21 PM.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    The best solution is to not pug anyways.
    I understand the idea behind this, but this is also not really a solution, because how else do you find your groups?
    Ok, of course the answer is "get a guild", but how do you get a guild? Why would you apply to random guild which you know nothing about with people you do not know? I understand that this is true for very high end mythic raiding guilds, but for the rest of the player base I think the usual way is to join the guild of a person they already know and not the other way around.

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