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  1. #161
    If people feel like you're wasting their time they should be free to leave, it's a mmo not a charity and by pugging you accept the risk of not finishing or having a leaver if you don't meet the expectations of the people you invite, if you don't want to take the risk you just run with reliable people...

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Drigs View Post
    you could easily add in a "surrender" option to the key where any player that leaves before the group votes to surrender is given an hour penalty. That would account for keys where it's just not going to work out where the group can vote and players can leave as they please. But it would also give the players who leave a little bit more of a reason to stick it out.
    Well, then players would be held hostages. If I advertised my grp as pushing, but if at some point it would become obvious that we are not timing it.. I and lets say a friend or two of mine could hold someone hostage in our key.
    It's custom made groups. People should be careful on who they invite in

  3. #163
    I would potentially support some kind of consequence to prevent griefing/screwing the group, but it would have to be something that wouldn't take effect after (x) number of deaths, or something. For a couple examples:

    1) Running a Waycrest, somewhere in the +7-9 range, and it's a smooth run on pace to +3 the key. We've finished the first three bosses and are going down the stairs to the Waycrests, when the tank and healer (who came together) abruptly drop group, leaving the rest of us in the lurch. That's the type of dick move- presumably premeditated- that absolutely deserves some sort of punishment.

    2) My Paladin's first key as Holy: geared enough to do a +6-7, but decided to start with a +2 since I hadn't healed on that toon since Legion. So I joined a +2 group for Tol Dagor. I had more health than the tank iirc, but I thought "fine; I'm overgeared, and it's only a +2." And boy was he getting wailed on. Then I noticed that the mobs were bolstering...on a +2? As it turned out, the DPS who had the key was stoned and had listed his +6 as a +2. Oops. Well, myself and one of the DPS (a rogue I think) were the only ones that weren't undergeared for a +6, but we ended up slogging through it. (I try to run a key on every toon per week, so I didn't want to bail more than halfway through.) We wiped about ten times on the last boss (tyrannical week, and we had...trouble...with rotating Deadeye soaks and keeping people in the right spot, and I was still getting reacquainted with Pally healing), but everybody stuck through it and we ended up completing. Waaaaay after the timer of course. But- I would absolutely not have begrudged ANYbody for leaving that group
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    This has been discussed for years now. There is no way to reliably discern if a leave was justified or not. You simply don't know if that player who bailed on you did so because the boss despawned and he didn't want to play with you anymore, or if same moment something in that player real life came up so he ALT-F4ed to take his daughter to hospital.

    There is simply no way to make a punishment system fair.
    But the OP isn't talking about someone being punished for "leaving once" but for doing it multiple times. Besides. You can just put the number out there without having any consequences, just for people to see. The community can then balance itself around it.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Drigs View Post
    you could easily add in a "surrender" option to the key where any player that leaves before the group votes to surrender is given an hour penalty. That would account for keys where it's just not going to work out where the group can vote and players can leave as they please. But it would also give the players who leave a little bit more of a reason to stick it out.
    I sort of like it, but only because on many of my toons I'm just aiming for a completion of a +10(+) or an appropriately leveled key. This option would be great for me, but the players that are mostly interested in pushing would be held a bit hostage by those that are fine with sticking it out for a completion. A better solution might be to, instead of punishing the leaver in that scenario, let the group bring in another player to finish. But that would have it's own potential for abuse to0, I would think.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Funkenstein View Post
    Sorry, but that's the "I'm the kind of person who ditches like an a-hole" attempt at a rationale for why there shouldn't be any penalties.
    It's custom made group, that is why. Then every raid pug should have the same penalties. Joined a somewhat "decent" pug with ilvl requirement? Leader is a total douche/alt, bam, locked in and if you leave you can't pug for a hour.
    If the group leader is a shithead, you can enter dungeon, he pops the key in before you can see how shit he is and bam, you are a hostage. It would be abused.
    How about punishing people who die in m+ to avoidable dmg? Or giving penalties for players not using interrupts? Sounds stupid, right?

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    It's custom made group, that is why. Then every raid pug should have the same penalties. Joined a somewhat "decent" pug with ilvl requirement? Leader is a total douche/alt, bam, locked in and if you leave you can't pug for a hour.
    If the group leader is a shithead, you can enter dungeon, he pops the key in before you can see how shit he is and bam, you are a hostage. It would be abused.
    Dude, you realize you're fucking whining about how mythics work right now, and I'm arguing that they shouldn't work that way.

    You do realize that, yes?

    Nevermind, you clearly fucking don't.

  8. #168
    Immortal callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Mythic+ is fine as is.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Funkenstein View Post
    Dude, you realize you're fucking whining about how mythics work right now, and I'm arguing that they shouldn't work that way.

    You do realize that, yes?

    Nevermind, you clearly fucking don't.
    They work just fine. That is what I am saying. Nothing to argue about. It's not random content. You clearly [fucking] don't understand that.
    It might be improved, but no penalties should be ever issued for doing non auto-grouped content otherwise pugging will suffer. That is besides reported offences like being a dick.

  10. #170
    There's a Battleground deserter debuff. I can't see why that can't be used in Mythic+.

  11. #171
    Have had the Tank leave group, literally at the last boss with minutes left on the timer because “Don’t think we’ll get this guys”.

    The answer is simple, just don’t PUG in this toxic environment... but even guild groups sometimes need to fill a spot.

  12. #172
    Immortal callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    There's a Battleground deserter debuff. I can't see why that can't be used in Mythic+.
    Apples aren't oranges. Oranges aren't apples
    Non-rated random grouping vs rated selected grouping.

    Compare battlegrounds to heroic dungeons for a better comparison; both have the deserter debuff.

  13. #173
    I think you just need to make the number of time a player has bailed available when the group is forming. If someone has a history of a lot of bailing, then it is up to the group on whether to take him.

  14. #174
    I am Murloc! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    So get this. Freehold +14, goes very well up to the first boss.
    There is litteraly nothing up to the first boss of FH...
    And reseting him isn't "something really random", it's failing at the most basic thing required on the fight. It's a clown fiesta at this point. With the next bosses being waaay more demending I understand the bailer and may have done the same depending on the group dynamic.

    Nobody owes you to carry a clown group in a +14 for 1+ hour. Until very clearly stated in the LFD title as "bad players tryharding" or something like that, failing basic mecanics shouldn't happen in random groups. If it happens someone doesn't belong in the group, any consequences is on the group creator for being lazy.

    The group wasn't randomly formed, it's up to the group leader/creator to get a clue on who he's inviting
    And sure, sometime a very bad apple may join and shit your group. It happens. And I rather disband soon than free carry garbage.
    Last edited by Ealyssa; 2019-12-29 at 11:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  15. #175
    if you queue to a random group and then leave you are fucking trash.

  16. #176
    Why do you want penalize for leaving organized group run? Ppl leaving mostly when they see is not possible to end in time, don't expect everyone will happy only with chest.

  17. #177
    I strongly doubt the game itself would add any form of penalty but I would love for raider.io to incorporate some stat to tell me how often a player has been the first to leave a group - or something to that effect. If i'm chosing between 2 dps for a key and one guy has been the first to leave a key 8-10 times then I know who to pick.

    The truth is far too few people care about others. I've seen a lot of bad things in keys with people getting toxic, creating unnecessary drama and leave because of the smallest things. That's why I feel it's important after every good key to call it out and thank everyone for the run.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    OK, as an outsider looking at some sort of bailing statistic: How do I determine how many times leaving a group was justified vs. when it wasn't? How do I know if a player's ranking isn't being somehow gamed? How do you allow for the times when a group just decides to fall apart on its own?

    Main question is how does this work so that it only applies when you get pissed off but not apply when you seem to be able to understand why it needs to happen? It's really a rhetorical question because when people propose these things they never have a viable answer that would really work.
    Easy? If you leave within X minutes of a death/group death/resurrection you get penalized.

  19. #179
    Fluffy Kitten MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Easy? If you leave within X minutes of a death/group death/resurrection you get penalized.
    So if I'm healing a group the best idea is to leave before a wipe. I don't think that idea would work. Smart players would leave at the very first hint of a problem with the group.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Easy? If you leave within X minutes of a death/group death/resurrection you get penalized.
    So you are on shrine, first boss, boss does the charge and tank dies cause he got knocked down somehow, you leave cause you dont wanna bear a whole m+ with that braindead tank, and you get penalized, great system right.

    The best solution is to not pug anyways.

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