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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Demona3 View Post
    It won't make shit over end-game. Why? Because the movie came out 10 years ago and it's first sequel will be 2021? That is just fucking lazy. He promised fans for years the sequel would be out, then kept pushing the date back further and further. They just recently "supposedly" started filming for the sequel. Again lazy.
    To be fair, it was like the same amount of time between Terminator 1 and Terminator 2. James Cameron is known to take his time and only work on a sequel when he feels it'll be special and it'll serve an artistic purpose and challenge to both himself and the industry.

    The major difference here is, and James Cameron doesn't see, however, is Terminator 1 was special. It was universally well-received, was a success critically, and financially, and it's aged well because of how good the story and acting in it is. It also has an open end that promised something good in the future, without just being a prelude. Avatar 1? Not anywhere nearly as much as he thinks. It was groundbreaking in the year it came out, and inspired a flux of 3D wannabes, but the 3D movie experience was ultimately a flop. Nobody praised Avatar for its story, or even acting, really, on the contrary, they ridiculed it. It hasn't aged well, and its legacy is not on that of a Terminator level like he likes to think. Does it have a fan base? Of course. But even the general audience has moved on and invested on the MCU.

  2. #102
    Rereleases shouldn't be included imo.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticj View Post
    Alita's plot was a cringey mess imo lol
    It's not for everyone, true. But I found it better than Avatar's plot. Especially when the hero betrayed the Earth.

  4. #104
    Legendary! callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Cameron is getting a bit nutty in his old age.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhanzai View Post
    Lots of drama queens in here.

    Yes avatar will retake #1. What he said is absolutely accurate.
    And yet he's still a cunt for saying it the way he did. What's your point?

  6. #106
    Avatar was a terrible film though. The storyline was utter trash, with the film basically riding on the CGI tech at the time. It won’t be ahead of the game in terms of that any more, so continuing that storyline is utterly meh.

  7. #107
    dont have to say anything about that topic.

    the only thing i have to say, is: „terminator dark fate is camerons great vision what really happened after T2“. did you see that 0815 movie?

    and i am a cineast since 30 years (and ppl like schwarzenegger were my movie heroes as child). i watched A LOT of movies and i really have a huge tolerance (even more with a setup like dark fates one). and the movie was not that bad at all. but seriously: this is the great judgement day part 2 ? when i look at what cameron said about that movie... well...

    so, i am very careful about things cameron says today.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2019-12-24 at 02:20 AM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    dont have to say anything about that topic.

    the only thing i have to say, is: „terminator dark fate is camerons great vision what really happened after T2“. did you see that 0815 movie?

    and i am a cineast since 30 years (and ppl like schwarzenegger were my movie heroes as child). i watched A LOT of movies and i really have a huge tolerance (even more with a setup like dark fates one). and the movie was not that bad at all. but seriously: this is the great judgement day part 2 ? when i look at what cameron said about that movie... well...

    so, i am very careful about things cameron says today.
    Cameron just said that to sell tickets and generate buzz, I doubt he believes it himself. The story he wanted to tell ended with T2. He didn't even believe in Dark Fate enough to direct it himself. What made Terminator special wasn't the prospect of one day seeing the "war against Skynet" fully fleshed out in film. Salvation did that well enough, but it was never the point of Terminator. The point was always about a nobody (Sarah Connor) siring humanity's savior and then changing fate by altering the course of the future against all odds. They did that in Judgment Day. Anything that followed was alternate universe fan fiction for greedy movie studios to bank on, and Cameron isn't beneath telling fans and studio execs what they want to hear to keep them paying him to use the IP he created.

    Ultimately, even if Cameron himself had done Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, it wouldn't have been special, but a tack on, because the story ended in Judgment Day. The only difference is, Cameron is the only one that knew that, but he's more of a carny than people realize.

    The only reason we never got Titanic 2 is because not even the greediest and stupidest man on the planet can pitch that.

  9. #109
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Sounds like corporate speak, not what Cameron would really say.

    Personally, I can't wait to see Avatar 2. Cameron is a visionary and the world of Avatar was incredibly interesting. The idea of it being set underwater has me interested. I think we might see a revival of interest in the setting when Avatar 2's marketing swings into full gear.

    That said, I'm ambivalent on the idea of the humans coming back. The idea of humanity facing extinction and becoming entangled with the Naavi in a battle for survival is interesting, but then any moral ambiguity was thrown away when the story settled on "humans are wrong, praise the Naavi" when the situation wasn't black and white. The resolution of the first movie "the humans went back home" doesn't really make sense, considering that they could just come back in a decades, fling Rods from the Gods towards the planet, and mine it no problem. Personally, I'd rather that the humans just be forgotten entirely and they don't come back at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Am I the only person who thinks that considering the build up regarding the MCU that Endgame should have been a lot more successful than it was?

    I'm sure plenty of people here went to see it more than once in the cinema; but for myself and a lot of friends it was really... bad. Slow pace, stupid story, dumb fanservice everywhere. I couldn't wait for it to wrap up. Still bought it on 4k when it released but I just put it on to fall asleep to.

    Infinity War was awesome, mind. And I'm sure this debate has been done to death in the relevant thread, just find it weird that people take it's marginal success over Avatar as such a win when it "should" have steamrolled it, imo.
    I've gone to great lengths about this before, so I will be brief. To me, the MCU has been handled pretty terribly. I was most interested when the first Avengers movie dropped, but then they started the whole long winded Thanos arc which dragged out for years on end. Every movie had to somehow tie into that stupid plotline, and then we had two woefully long movies all about him and I just couldn't care less. Aside from Captain America, the MCU movies didn't have heart like Sam Raimi's Spiderman, X-Men, or Batman Begins. They constantly killed any story they had by making stupid jokes and mocking themselves. It's the same regurgitated crap for twenty something movies in a row.

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  10. #110
    I mean it better. So. many. years. to produce that shit, it better be the best. I can't think of any other movie that has taken this much money and time to make. Just saying.

  11. #111
    Avatar had 2 things going for it. It was the first movie I ever saw at the theatre that was in 3D, and it had a fuckload of advertising that made sure you knew that you could see it in 3D. That is all.

    The story was trash, and the movie did nothing to move me emotionally. All the 3D was nothing more than dressing up a turd. Avatar was the first and last of its kind ill ever waste my money on.

  12. #112
    The Patient Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Seems like I'm in the minority here, but I absolutely loved Avatar. It was a gorgeous and immersive movie in a beautiful world. The fact that the story was a ripoff of other movies is irrelevant in the big picture. I've been waiting for Avatar 2 for a long time!
    Same here man. Back in 2008 my teacher put it on for my class to watch, and we absolutely loved it. I even went as a Na'vi woman for Halloween that year!

    Ahmanét, daughter of Bwonsamdi
    Bwonsamdi is my future husband

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    So just to be clear, he's bragging that he's going to win by rereleasing the movie for it's 10th anniversary and getting a second chance to make money in theaters? Very good James. Maybe Endgame can rerelease 10 years from now too and you can see if your dick still measures up.
    MCU secret wars is coming out and to get you caught up Feige will put on infinity War and endgame in the cinema a few months early. /plot to get back top.

  14. #114
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    So just to be clear, he's bragging that he's going to win by rereleasing the movie for it's 10th anniversary and getting a second chance to make money in theaters? Very good James. Maybe Endgame can rerelease 10 years from now too and you can see if your dick still measures up.
    There is a reason why Gone with the Wind keeps getting theatrical rereleases.
    There is a reason why the George Lucas Star Wars films got rereleases.
    There is a reason why Titanic got rereleases.
    No MCU is going to get a rerelease, and certainly not Endgame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    the first Avatar was cool, i liked it, but it's not something i went nuts over. did other people? or was it because it was so high budget and like the first modern 3d movie that made it so popular?
    Perhaps we take it for granted with all of the CGI movies coming out today, Avatar took immersion to the next level. You got stunning panoramic vistas of floating mountains inspired by Zhangjiajie park. It felt like they were actually bushwacking through a dense rain forest filled with alien and magical creatures. It felt like you were there. The film captured the exhilaration flying on a dragon before How to Train your Dragon came out. The movie doesn't use it's world as set dressing, pushing past it to the next action packed set piece. The movie actually slows down and takes time to breathe in the setting. To this day, there isn't really any movie that captures the feeling of going to another world like Avatar.

    A lot of people shit on the story, but the story was actually really interesting up until the half way mark. Humanity was facing extinction and the corporation wasn't trying to be dicks. The protagonist trying to understand the world of the Naavi really helped facilitate exploration of the setting. You wanted to see a peaceful resolution between the two groups. You could see the movie heading towards that. Unfortunately, because any Hollywood blockbuster with more than $50 million on the line has to be an action blockbuster, the plot suddenly contorts from an introspective story to a shallow action movie halfway through.

    It's easy to look at the shallow second half of the plot and criticize Avatar as being a stupid movie, but when people rewatch it they'll probably remember all of the many, many things Avatar got right.

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  15. #115
    Meh dancing with the smurfs wasn’t really imaginative or that exciting to me. Same old stranger in a strange country learning to live with the locals

  16. #116
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    Same old stranger in a strange country learning to live with the locals
    The second half of the movie is especially jarring, considering that he is straight up dooming humanity by trying to live out his isekai fantasy of fighting with the underdog heroes against "the evil empire". He is allowing dozens of billions of people on Earth to die... because he wants to fly around on dragons with a few million people in fantasy land. WTF

    If I was a Naavi, I'd think that he was a delusional, untrustworthy lunatic who can be counted on to betray us the moment he found a more thrilling experience.

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  17. #117
    Who knows. It was ok. He spent so long creating the sequel that I doubt most people even care. The hype was there years ago, but its died down now.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  18. #118
    Does anyone really want more Avatar? That movie fucking sucked. It looked cool, but it was a shit movie and shit world.

  19. #119
    Sometimes when I re-watch Avatar, I can't help but picture Night Elves in Nagrand. So it's not even particularly a creative world.

  20. #120
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    Loads of shit movies make money. That's not to say that you can't enjoy something which is near-objectively terrible and be totally justified in that opinion, but enjoying something isn't the same thing as it actually being good from a critical perspective.

    Avatar isn't bad because it ripped shit off. It's bad because it ripped shit off badly. It just isn't a good movie on any level other than the visuals.
    Oh, I had my movies that I enjoyed while watching them and just knew they were shit...and never touched another film of that franchise or Director. Michael bay and Dark of the moon comes to mind.

    That said I was initially surprised by the viciousness of people attacking Avatar. It is almost as if Cameron went to their home and raped their dog. But hey...I only need to look at the "discussions" surrounding the last two Star Wars film to understand. Because suddenly I am on the side of people who find them utter, unwatchable shit and my opinion comes across as butthurt...because I totally and madly loved the old films from 1977-1983.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Because he's right? Avatar was amazing for multiple reasons. And Cameron is one of the few people who can say this and be right and do it all looking unsmug.

    For me the issue is inflation. Not sure why they use ticket revenue instead of tickets sold.
    Some sites do it....I think on boxofficemojo you can see it (Gone with the wind wins domestically) and "data is beautiful" does it on youtube. In that one (though I only found a video on science fiction films) Avatar ends up at 3.34 billion, followed by A new Hope at 3.29 and endgame at 2.79. Well...adjusted for inflation is what they call it...maybe they cannot get the ticket sale numbers after all these years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babadoo View Post
    No one wants your fucking Avatar we all wanted you to do the new Terminator
    Not me. Not after he had involvement in the last Terminator movies and gave them their blessing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoldor View Post
    Does anyone really want more Avatar? That movie fucking sucked. It looked cool, but it was a shit movie and shit world.
    We shall see when Avatar releases if anyone wants it.

    I stick to the Star Wars example from before: Does anyone want another Star Wars now that the last movies were shit? Well...Star Wars is ofc a different universe and has a fanbase build on years and years of films. But even though the last movies were stupid and ruined the old stories, yes...people want them and go to see them.

    Although I understand you. I also think the ship has sailed and the studio behind Cameron might be wasting massive amounts of money. But who knows? When T2 was announced, critics said the budget was so massive, the film could never make that back, especially being based on this small film that T1 was.

    They said the same about Titanic when that budget went up to a mind-boggling (for that time) 200 million. And Cameron did it again with Avatar 1. Massive success after massive success.

    The film does not need to make anyone here happy. It only needs to appeal to the people who spend money on shot for shot CGI remakes of 2D Classic likes Jungle book, Alladin or Lion King. Soulless, sterile shit that pisses on the Classics. Blatant cashgrabs (though I hate this expression...I will still use it) - and at the end of the day I don't even blame the studios who take the financial rist of putting 200 million up front. I blame the idiots who buy tickets.

    So we shall see if anyone wants more Avatar. If they don't...don't go and see it. Also as with the new Star Wars, there will be plenty youtubers telling you if it sucks and you can form an opinion ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Sometimes when I re-watch Avatar, I can't help but picture Night Elves in Nagrand. So it's not even particularly a creative world.
    Hehe...except I don't remember jungles in Nagrand? More like Teldrassil...that world tree at least. As for lack of creativity? Hell..that is the easiest card to pull. Since you bring up WoW...that gets accused every x-pac of lack of creativity
    Last edited by det; 2019-12-24 at 07:27 AM.

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