James Cameron says Avatar will "ultimately top" Avengers Endgame

[Niwes]

dont have to say anything about that topic.

the only thing i have to say, is: „terminator dark fate is camerons great vision what really happened after T2“. did you see that 0815 movie?

and i am a cineast since 30 years (and ppl like schwarzenegger were my movie heroes as child). i watched A LOT of movies and i really have a huge tolerance (even more with a setup like dark fates one). and the movie was not that bad at all. but seriously: this is the great judgement day part 2 ? when i look at what cameron said about that movie... well...

so, i am very careful about things cameron says today.

[Kyphael]

dont have to say anything about that topic.

the only thing i have to say, is: „terminator dark fate is camerons great vision what really happened after T2“. did you see that 0815 movie?

and i am a cineast since 30 years (and ppl like schwarzenegger were my movie heroes as child). i watched A LOT of movies and i really have a huge tolerance (even more with a setup like dark fates one). and the movie was not that bad at all. but seriously: this is the great judgement day part 2 ? when i look at what cameron said about that movie... well...

so, i am very careful about things cameron says today.

Cameron just said that to sell tickets and generate buzz, I doubt he believes it himself. The story he wanted to tell ended with T2. He didn't even believe in Dark Fate enough to direct it himself. What made Terminator special wasn't the prospect of one day seeing the "war against Skynet" fully fleshed out in film. Salvation did that well enough, but it was never the point of Terminator. The point was always about a nobody (Sarah Connor) siring humanity's savior and then changing fate by altering the course of the future against all odds. They did that in Judgment Day. Anything that followed was alternate universe fan fiction for greedy movie studios to bank on, and Cameron isn't beneath telling fans and studio execs what they want to hear to keep them paying him to use the IP he created.

Ultimately, even if Cameron himself had done Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, it wouldn't have been special, but a tack on, because the story ended in Judgment Day. The only difference is, Cameron is the only one that knew that, but he's more of a carny than people realize.

The only reason we never got Titanic 2 is because not even the greediest and stupidest man on the planet can pitch that.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Sounds like corporate speak, not what Cameron would really say.

Personally, I can't wait to see Avatar 2. Cameron is a visionary and the world of Avatar was incredibly interesting. The idea of it being set underwater has me interested. I think we might see a revival of interest in the setting when Avatar 2's marketing swings into full gear.

That said, I'm ambivalent on the idea of the humans coming back. The idea of humanity facing extinction and becoming entangled with the Naavi in a battle for survival is interesting, but then any moral ambiguity was thrown away when the story settled on "humans are wrong, praise the Naavi" when the situation wasn't black and white. The resolution of the first movie "the humans went back home" doesn't really make sense, considering that they could just come back in a decades, fling Rods from the Gods towards the planet, and mine it no problem. Personally, I'd rather that the humans just be forgotten entirely and they don't come back at all.

Am I the only person who thinks that considering the build up regarding the MCU that Endgame should have been a lot more successful than it was?

I'm sure plenty of people here went to see it more than once in the cinema; but for myself and a lot of friends it was really... bad. Slow pace, stupid story, dumb fanservice everywhere. I couldn't wait for it to wrap up. Still bought it on 4k when it released but I just put it on to fall asleep to.

Infinity War was awesome, mind. And I'm sure this debate has been done to death in the relevant thread, just find it weird that people take it's marginal success over Avatar as such a win when it "should" have steamrolled it, imo.

I've gone to great lengths about this before, so I will be brief. To me, the MCU has been handled pretty terribly. I was most interested when the first Avengers movie dropped, but then they started the whole long winded Thanos arc which dragged out for years on end. Every movie had to somehow tie into that stupid plotline, and then we had two woefully long movies all about him and I just couldn't care less. Aside from Captain America, the MCU movies didn't have heart like Sam Raimi's Spiderman, X-Men, or Batman Begins. They constantly killed any story they had by making stupid jokes and mocking themselves. It's the same regurgitated crap for twenty something movies in a row.

[Thelxi]

I mean it better. So. many. years. to produce that shit, it better be the best. I can't think of any other movie that has taken this much money and time to make. Just saying.

[last1214]

Avatar had 2 things going for it. It was the first movie I ever saw at the theatre that was in 3D, and it had a fuckload of advertising that made sure you knew that you could see it in 3D. That is all.

The story was trash, and the movie did nothing to move me emotionally. All the 3D was nothing more than dressing up a turd. Avatar was the first and last of its kind ill ever waste my money on.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Seems like I'm in the minority here, but I absolutely loved Avatar. It was a gorgeous and immersive movie in a beautiful world. The fact that the story was a ripoff of other movies is irrelevant in the big picture. I've been waiting for Avatar 2 for a long time!

Same here man. Back in 2008 my teacher put it on for my class to watch, and we absolutely loved it. I even went as a Na'vi woman for Halloween that year!

[Kallisto]

So just to be clear, he's bragging that he's going to win by rereleasing the movie for it's 10th anniversary and getting a second chance to make money in theaters? Very good James. Maybe Endgame can rerelease 10 years from now too and you can see if your dick still measures up.

MCU secret wars is coming out and to get you caught up Feige will put on infinity War and endgame in the cinema a few months early. /plot to get back top.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

So just to be clear, he's bragging that he's going to win by rereleasing the movie for it's 10th anniversary and getting a second chance to make money in theaters? Very good James. Maybe Endgame can rerelease 10 years from now too and you can see if your dick still measures up.

There is a reason why Gone with the Wind keeps getting theatrical rereleases.
There is a reason why the George Lucas Star Wars films got rereleases.
There is a reason why Titanic got rereleases.
No MCU is going to get a rerelease, and certainly not Endgame.

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the first Avatar was cool, i liked it, but it's not something i went nuts over. did other people? or was it because it was so high budget and like the first modern 3d movie that made it so popular?

Perhaps we take it for granted with all of the CGI movies coming out today, Avatar took immersion to the next level. You got stunning panoramic vistas of floating mountains inspired by Zhangjiajie park. It felt like they were actually bushwacking through a dense rain forest filled with alien and magical creatures. It felt like you were there. The film captured the exhilaration flying on a dragon before How to Train your Dragon came out. The movie doesn't use it's world as set dressing, pushing past it to the next action packed set piece. The movie actually slows down and takes time to breathe in the setting. To this day, there isn't really any movie that captures the feeling of going to another world like Avatar.

A lot of people shit on the story, but the story was actually really interesting up until the half way mark. Humanity was facing extinction and the corporation wasn't trying to be dicks. The protagonist trying to understand the world of the Naavi really helped facilitate exploration of the setting. You wanted to see a peaceful resolution between the two groups. You could see the movie heading towards that. Unfortunately, because any Hollywood blockbuster with more than $50 million on the line has to be an action blockbuster, the plot suddenly contorts from an introspective story to a shallow action movie halfway through.

It's easy to look at the shallow second half of the plot and criticize Avatar as being a stupid movie, but when people rewatch it they'll probably remember all of the many, many things Avatar got right.

[Rustedsaint]

Meh dancing with the smurfs wasn’t really imaginative or that exciting to me. Same old stranger in a strange country learning to live with the locals

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Same old stranger in a strange country learning to live with the locals

The second half of the movie is especially jarring, considering that he is straight up dooming humanity by trying to live out his isekai fantasy of fighting with the underdog heroes against "the evil empire". He is allowing dozens of billions of people on Earth to die... because he wants to fly around on dragons with a few million people in fantasy land. WTF

If I was a Naavi, I'd think that he was a delusional, untrustworthy lunatic who can be counted on to betray us the moment he found a more thrilling experience.

[Zantos]

Who knows. It was ok. He spent so long creating the sequel that I doubt most people even care. The hype was there years ago, but its died down now.

[Zoldor]

Does anyone really want more Avatar? That movie fucking sucked. It looked cool, but it was a shit movie and shit world.

[Kyphael]

Sometimes when I re-watch Avatar, I can't help but picture Night Elves in Nagrand. So it's not even particularly a creative world.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Sometimes when I re-watch Avatar, I can't help but picture Night Elves in Nagrand. So it's not even particularly a creative world.

It is a slight variation on pocahontas that some guys in the mainstream media absolutely fell in love with back then. Imho mostly because simple minds are easily dazzled by pretty pictures, especially if they come in the form of a 2.7h audio-visual bombardment. Shadowferal spammed the previous page with tonns of quotes about it, which is something that indeed caused alot of hype back then, but is also entirely irrelevant in reality, since the same can be found with any other remotely popular scifi/fantasy franchise. If we dredged out every star wars or twilight fan that would rather live in a galaxy far far away or smooch with sparkly vampires, I'm sure we find that these franchises also changed lives as documented in the teen angst diary entries of the same caliber.

[Sliske]

(If my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough: All art is subjective. Saying that a person is "undemanding" because they like a movie a lot is inherently incorrect.)

Wrong. Very common misconception brought about thanks to post-modernists that art is subjective.

There is a reason modern art galleries are dead while classic art galleries are so overflowing with people, there are worries that camera flashes will damage the art overtime.

There is a reason everyone already agrees on what the best visuals, are in video games every single year.

There is a reason everyone already knows what a beautiful movie is and can identify it instantly.

There is a reason everyone can look at a piece of art and instantly recognise talent, whilst looking at a piece of modern 'art', say, a banana stuck to a wall, evokes zero emotion.

There is a reason when listening to a classical symphony or an orchestra all in sync playing along that you feel something, whilst a Nicki Minaj song is boring, uninteresting and unchallenging to you.

Art is not subjective. Your brain at a glance can tell the difference. Thats how built into you this shit is. Art is about talent and meaning. If you look at something devoid of either, convincing yourself that it is in fact art is going to be about as pointless as trying to convince yourself that someone with a crippling disfigurement is beautiful.

There are other ways you can describe these things, but it is not 'art.' Please use a different word, because this is not the correct one and it is literally propaganda created by marxist post-modernists that hate the reality that even art is dominated by talented interesting people, which runs contradictory to their ideal, which is that everyone and everything is equal, or should be, from inception until the end of time.

A banana stuck to a wall isn't art. Its money laundering at worst and at best its a mockery of post-modernism. Laying on the floor screaming for an hour in a museum isn't art. Its a desperate cry for attention, brought upon by the persons psyche breaking down thanks to being an adult and no longer being fawned over at home by their middle-upper class parents.

And yes, you can be an undemanding audience. An audience of children for instance care very little about meaning initially and opt more for action and special effects. As the audience grows older (to a point), they then opt more for story which is inherently more demanding. Dialogue of any depth is a thousandfold more demanding than watching a car go boom. Unless you want to argue against that reality, too?

And your last two paragraphs. Come on dude. Endgame was not a fantastic movie. It was a visually packed movie with a lot of fan service. Heres how you know your movie sucks. If at the very start, your premise of your movie relies on none of the half dozen geniuses in the room saying the words "perhaps we should get some more fuel so we can more than once, rather than just pretend its a one time only thing?" then you know your movie doesn't care about the story.

They wrote themselves into a corner. A bunch of super heroes vs something that no longer exists. The only solution is time travel and immediately they've fucked up. If your only solution is time travel, thats a red flag. If people start acting like their time travel machine only has one use, thats another red flag. If you remove this second arbitrary barrier, you remove ALL tension from the movie. ALL of it.

Those are two of the weak pillars this entire movie rests upon, the next is the idea that Thanos without any stones, is more powerful than the entire cast of the Avengers combined and attacking him at the same time. This is simply not true as established by the first movie. Thor dumpstered him by himself. Several times he was almost beaten, but just barely escaped thanks to the power of the stones. On top of that, as the movie progresses, you even see him start winning more and more easily thanks to newfound powers.

Second point, as said before, most of the movie was fan service. Like Iron Man meeting his Dad. 100% fan service devoid of any story. Cap meeting Peggy. 100% fan service. Cap wielding Mjolnir and so on.

Endgame will be remembered for its fight scenes and if the special effects don't hold up in 20 years time, the movie will be forgotten at best and at worst it will be remembered alongside well, Avatar. What is Avatar remembered as? Not anything with great story. Not anything with great action. It was essentially viewed, as you say, as a movie that displayed very high end graphics for the time. Now it looks alright and the cracks are more visible than ever and as a result, the movie is just boring. No one cares about it. No one says "quick, Avatar is on TV, come watch." They just don't care. What movie do they still do that for? Lord of the Rings is one. Terminator is another. Harry Potter is another.

What do these movies all have in common? A good story, practical effects that will survive for another 100 years and a world they are embedded in which is believable as it gets.

Speaking of a practical world that people can believe in. Endgame ends with 3.5 billion people reappearing on Earth after 5 years. Don't you think that would cause massive crippling damage to the planet?

[Ihavewaffles]

The difference being that Avatar had a movie over 10 years ago, whilst Avengers Endgame was built up with tons of movies featuring the characters.

It might top Endgame in box office, sure, but will it top Endgame as the climax to a decade's worth of build-up? Fuck.No.

Needing other movies as a crutch isn't something to brag about, each movie should be judged by its own merit n not of others...
..n timetraveling to the other movies n needing a rat to step on a button...that's writers giving up, not being creative...
..people will defend to the death bad writing, only cuz of Marvel logo, it's excused..as if people see any criticism as an attack on their identity, people on this thread are like religious zealots, it's sooooo weird to me......

I was never a fan of Titanic, but didn't care how much it made...I never felt the urge to go io the cinema extra times, more than I had originally intended, afterwards for other movies to beat titanic box office....
It's such a disconnect feeding rich corporations n imagining ur on the same team as them...

Can someone explain what's the deal with that?

I hope avatar beats endgame just so people can stop thinking box office is a contest that involves them. It doesn't, u only succeed in making bunch of rich people richer.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Needing other movies as a crutch isn't something to brag about, each movie should be judged by its own merit n not of others...
..n timetraveling to the other movies n needing a rat to step on a button...that's writers giving up, not being creative...
..people will defend to the death bad writing, only cuz of Marvel logo, it's excused..as if people see any criticism as an attack on their identity, people on this thread are like religious zealots, it's sooooo weird to me......

I was never a fan of Titanic, but didn't care how much it made...I never felt the urge to go io the cinema extra times, more than I had originally intended, afterwards for other movies to beat titanic box office....
It's such a disconnect feeding rich corporations n imagining ur on the same team as them...

Can someone explain what's the deal with that?

I hope avatar beats endgame just so people can stop thinking box office is a contest that involves them. It doesn't, u only succeed in making bunch of rich people richer.

Lol, "crutch".

If it's a Universe with multiple movies and characters building it up, it'd be pretty fucking retarded to NOT have all those movies tie the Universe together and build for the climax. Each movie is however judged on its own merit, as you'll see from critics and viewers alike. Ooopsie!

People similarly will believe themselves to be factual beings when it comes to what constitutes good/bad writing (rather than admitting to it being subjective based on what they enjoy and not), just to try and feel superior to people feeling differently about X medium. You are very much doing just that, which means I won't and can't entertain you beyond this point.

For someone seemingly not giving a toss, you sure wrote a lot on the topic which you don't care about, and ended it with you wishing for certain events to come to pass in your "lack of caring". Thanks for the laughs though, I genuinely couldn't hold back. Especially since I REALLY don't base my enjoyment of movies on how they performed at the box office.

[Kokolums]

Transformers hit $1 billion with no plot and explosions all over the place. I say Cameron can do it but he needs to remove all dialogue and plot and just have massive explosions every 5 minutes. Fans will say it was a fun popcorn flick and see it 5 times. You could have giant robot avatars that fight each other. They are so big they throw planets at each other. Get tossed into black holes. Punch holes in reality. Just go for it.

[TheRevenantHero]

So he's an insecure fuck who hates that a better movie beat Avatar so he's rereleasing the movie AGAIN just to try and top it? That proves NOTHING. All that proves is that you cheated by keeping the movie in theaters as long as possible. When it came out. it was in theaters for 238 fucking days. Endgame beat Avatar in 90 days. Fuck I hate James Cameron.

[Mihalik]

Avatar is one of those pet peeves movies of mine.

It's popularity was primarily based on the fact that it was somewhat of a leapfrog forward in CGI and 3D. The story was fucking horrible, with plotholes and magic MacGuffins that made the whole Pocahontas In Space barely watchable for anyone with a shred of logic and critical thinking.

This to me sounds like Cameron trying reclaim his fallen kingdom after the fiasco of Terminatorark Fate.

-Guyz! I can still make money! Remember that movie I made in 2009?