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  1. #41
    I honestly think Resilience gear (with vendors) was the best version of a pvp gear system there was.

    It was the only time when you needed pvp gear, for pvp, that was obtained through pvp. Add in the win/loss reward cache and it wasn't hard to build that initial resilience, from which the gear progression was obvious and straightforward.

    And the fact that resilience didn't count towards iLVL stat budgets, and you still had pvp gear that would be "okay" in pve, but not well itemized for it.

    Maybe what I'd like to see more of is simply progression that is most beneficial to the content you're progressing in. PVP gear gets resilience back, maybe raid gear gets a new "determination" stat, M+ gear gets a new "frenzy" stat...idk. Thinking out loud here.

  2. #42
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Once again you forgetting about fundamental 3 rules, which are <dividing characteristics> <customizing characteristics> <progress>.

    Do you know main problem of versatility? It works in PvE, and a lot of it in PvE will also be very effective, especially for tanks (if I'm understanding it correctly). What condition does this impose on PvP gearing? Everything is very simple, they can’t give you much, at least at start and even in middle of your “progress” it’s for sure, which means that it's not able to compete with PvE gear in terms of influence on received content... so, by the time it starts to influence (in fact) - it already really ceases to be needed.

    What follows from all this: return of resilience is good, but you also would need competing parameters for PvE (and these should NOT be general “customizable” characteristics that are absolute/universal - which will make characters stronger in both areas, since thereby equipment, which will have them much more, will be more desirable, no no, but those which namely balancing PvE equip's utility specially for PvE), which were so unloved by all of you hit/mastery etc rating characteristics. Whole system is needed, and not torn out pieces here and there.

    ps. I don't know already how much I need to repeat same thing again and again. It’s not difficult, everything is extremely clear and simple
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-12-26 at 08:09 AM.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I honestly think Resilience gear (with vendors) was the best version of a pvp gear system there was.

    It was the only time when you needed pvp gear, for pvp, that was obtained through pvp. Add in the win/loss reward cache and it wasn't hard to build that initial resilience, from which the gear progression was obvious and straightforward.

    And the fact that resilience didn't count towards iLVL stat budgets, and you still had pvp gear that would be "okay" in pve, but not well itemized for it.

    Maybe what I'd like to see more of is simply progression that is most beneficial to the content you're progressing in. PVP gear gets resilience back, maybe raid gear gets a new "determination" stat, M+ gear gets a new "frenzy" stat...idk. Thinking out loud here.
    I completely agree, excpet that its not only resilience which achieved the goals you talk about. Scaling pvp-only ilvl in mop (it got highier ilvl in bgs/arenas) achieved exactly the same goal, of making pvp gear the best for pve and decent, but not better, then pve gear for pve. Resilience was just as good, i'm not sure i even have a preference.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Most abilitys got pve and pvp treatment, nothing changed.

    Some outliers exists, look at 2v2 arena META and you can guess what classes got away with some pve=pvp abilitys but you can just join a random 2v2 and see for yourself - its not hard to get from the numbers alone.

    The pvp gearsystem was horrible, you had tanky specs running around in resilience heavy gear/gems while burst comps could even get much worse. Balance was bad without pvp gear and could get really cheesy up to broken in stacked gear. Single tuned abilitys and spells make a much better experience.

    The only thing people miss are the ROFL-SWIFTY-MACRO-ONE-SHOT with gear/cd-spam advantage that required zero skill.

    Otherwise the game was never better for low geared players in PVP. People run around above 2k with 380 gear and 1 green essence and are farming cap-mythic-raiders 24/7. This whole topic is a 180° turn to whats really happening in the game and like I said when people realise that they have to do PVP AGAIN in 8.3 the forum will be spammed all day long with the PVP hate.
    I think i replied to you multiple times about it, i didn't open the topic to "hate pve and force people to pvp for pve gear", i think the gear should be clearly seperate in some form that makes each activity the best way to gear for that activity. That means pve should be the best way to pve, not just vice versa. If you're right about 8.3, it just means the problem is severe enough pve is hurt by it too.

  4. #44
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Hahahaha oh man you cant be serious, " For the first time in wow since arenas were invented, the best avenu by far for pvp gearing is pve."

    This happened so many times so far and it happens the other way around too, there been plenty of times where bis items were pvp pieces for pve as much there been bis pvp pieces from pve.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radon View Post
    Imo the best gearing for PvP was in Cata.
    I know I know, some ppl used full PvE tier sets cuz that shit was OP. Still they'd get wrecked when someone got to them because that's how Resilience worked.
    What made it so good was that you could mix and match pieces based on your class and how much offensive/defensive need it had.

    That being said, what I really miss is grinding BG's, Arenas and doing some RBG's from time to time to get emblem cap. Even if you were Honor capped, you could still do BG's and get something out of it, since there were Reagents you could buy with Honor or Trade Honor for Justice to get PvE items and the same would go for Conquest/Valor.
    I’ll say that I mostly agree with this.

    The PVP gearing was still better than PVE gear but people still did raiding for BIS PVP weapons. The specials on DS stuff were just great.

    I never had a problem with BIS weapons being raid acquired with the exception of Warglaives but that was a decade ago.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    I'm LOVING Korrack's right now and not because of the quick leveling but because everyone is so close in stats it doesnt matter. True I still come across the one person who twinks their arse off and abuses the system but Im still having a blast playing SKILL against SKILL.

    I couldnt pvp on regular if I wanted to. I dont remotely have the gear to be competitive cause I dont raid. Been playing 15 yrs and have never raided so I get left in the dust cause I do not like Arena either (pillar humping oo how skillful)
    Agree. Korraks Revenge is the most fun pvp I've had in years cus its balanced. 8 can kill players cus better, and I don't get nuked all the time by m10 players.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Hahahaha oh man you cant be serious, " For the first time in wow since arenas were invented, the best avenu by far for pvp gearing is pve."

    This happened so many times so far and it happens the other way around too, there been plenty of times where bis items were pvp pieces for pve as much there been bis pvp pieces from pve.
    Some slots were, but for every expac from tbc up to wod, the easiest way to get a good starting set was honor. You can give me examples if i missed something, but that's what i remember. If you had a guild that could raid hc icc or get you shadowmourne, sure, you did it. For most, though, the most practical method way was to get starting honor gear and then work on conquest, all from pvp.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Also if you lose to 380 ilvl people with your mythic level gear, then it's an L2P issue.
    I could point you to the arena leaderboard at the 2000-2400 bracket, half of it is not even 400 ilvl, but you clearly dont play the game, so it doesnt matter.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    I could point you to the arena leaderboard at the 2000-2400 bracket, half of it is not even 400 ilvl, but you clearly dont play the game, so it doesnt matter.
    Quickly glancing at a random selection of 20 people at the very bottom of the visible blizzard 3s ladder (2400 ish) and the lowest ilvl there is 442, but then again your other posts in this thread were equally useless so why stop now
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-12-24 at 03:50 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Considering how long after launch they introduced anything at all PvP related, I struggle to understand your logic here.
    Pvp has always been a mini-game within the larger game. that larger game being PvE based. PvP will has never and will never be a major focus.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerilo View Post
    Bc: Pvp gear is too easily obtainable and fresh 70s can just get a set of wellfare gear to invalidate the actual game
    That only happened because raiding wasn't as mainstream. It plays out completely differently in private servers. By the time Arenas launch (usually a month after opening the server), T4 is on farm by pugs. With very few exceptions, T4 > S1, T5 > S2, T6 > S3, Sunwell > S4. If anything, there's too much PvE gear in Arenas.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post

    8.3 will bring us again to S1/S2 BfA where PVP loot will be needed for PVE players - the raid lacks 2min trinkets again. What ever you want to discuss here, you should expect a massive amount of discussion with 8.3, because the itemisation forces again 100% of the players to participate in the sub 5% minigame that is PVP.
    wait a second ... so you are telling me PvE players will have to do PvP in order to be competitive in high end PvE? because that's exactly what PvP players have been doing for the past 2 years now.

  13. #53
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    I could point you to the arena leaderboard at the 2000-2400 bracket, half of it is not even 400 ilvl, but you clearly dont play the game, so it doesnt matter.
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  14. #54
    PvP gearing will never be the same without a pvp stat like resilience or pvp power. Resilience was the best system we had IMO and since they removed it PvP gearing and PvP gear has lost it's flavour.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I honestly think Resilience gear (with vendors) was the best version of a pvp gear system there was.

    It was the only time when you needed pvp gear, for pvp, that was obtained through pvp. Add in the win/loss reward cache and it wasn't hard to build that initial resilience, from which the gear progression was obvious and straightforward.

    And the fact that resilience didn't count towards iLVL stat budgets, and you still had pvp gear that would be "okay" in pve, but not well itemized for it.

    Maybe what I'd like to see more of is simply progression that is most beneficial to the content you're progressing in. PVP gear gets resilience back, maybe raid gear gets a new "determination" stat, M+ gear gets a new "frenzy" stat...idk. Thinking out loud here.
    Agreed here. Make it come back.

    I recently played some arena games...erhm actually I bought a boost, Im not into arena much (last time I played serious arena was back in TBC where I did get 2k rated 2v2) and wow...after like...idk 25 wins I only got 1 loot or some...at 1800 rated atm.

    Also I sort of miss defense as a tank...Idk. I tanked Black Temple etc in TBC with my feral druid in mostly pvp gear. It was very strong. Resilence worked like defense for crit immune as tank.
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  16. #56
    MOP system was much better as well with the PvP Power.
    Do you remember that no one had PvE gear in PvP back then ? Not even the legendary cloak...

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by WKOstarion View Post
    Pvp has always been a mini-game within the larger game. that larger game being PvE based. PvP will has never and will never be a major focus.
    Way to not respond to the point being raised AT ALL.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerilo View Post
    Doesn't private servers remove the casual player element of the game though? If you choose to play a bc private server, I feel like you are quite knowledgable about BC pr default. Without casual players to act as filler in queues, you encounter what we're seeing in classic. Massive amounts of min/maxing all over the place to the point where the game isnt even playable in the same form as it used to be.

    So while youre right, I dont think that translates to the live game.
    TBC is not much more difficult than Classic. When they release it, people will be amazed at how easy the PvE content is.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    wait a second ... so you are telling me PvE players will have to do PvP in order to be competitive in high end PvE? because that's exactly what PvP players have been doing for the past 2 years now.
    PVP is just a minigame with miniscule participation. Cheesing PVP with TANKING-ITEMS is a problem, but it was hotfixed in 1-2 weeks each time, so having to do PVE was never a real point of PVP players.

    Expect a lot of heat towards PVP gearing after 8.3:

    # first M+ gets harder (+4.5 key levels in difficulty) and you will need to do a 19.5 Key for your weekly chest, PVP players are still going to get gear for the same rating as its pre 8.3

    # BiS trinkets for all 2min classes from PVP ONLY

    The easiest way to get gear that is very good and in some cases the best in the game will be from PVP in 8.3. The 95% wont really like this change and it will force blizzards hand for a hotfix/change that wont be pretty for PVP. 10 months till shadowlands is just a bit to long to keep the PVE players happy with the current 8.3 situation.

    What ever you think is bad right now with PVP gear, expect some harsh nerfs to it after 8.3 and the blaming starts.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Cheesing PVP with TANKING-ITEMS is a problem, but it was hotfixed in 1-2 weeks each time, so having to do PVE was never a real point of PVP players.
    Are we playing the same game?
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-12-24 at 06:37 PM.

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