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  1. #1

    Why the Elf-human coupling hate?

    I'm really curious why there is so much hate for the elf/human relationships in the fan community of warcraft?


    1. Personally I quite liked Vereesa/Rhonin and really want to see the twins developed.
    2. I also was fine with Alleria/Turalyon and really liked how their story was improved in legion and took time to reunite with Arator their son I'd love to see more of
    3. Sylvanas/Nathanos seems the forbidden love story, or the dark twisted type which I am definitely curious about


    My observation though, is that:

    • it is a bit weird how far more prominent elf/human cross breeding is than any other, and
    • equally weird is that it's ALWAYS female elves with male humans,
    • also the lack of any prominent pure Thalassian elf couples.

    In fact the only elven couple I can think of are Malfurion and Tyrande that actaully has had any noticeable storytelling impact. Yes there is some mention of Jarods wife (though she died) and the occasional small quest other, but I can't think of any really that is noticeable off the top of my head.


    Still, why the hate?
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2019-12-27 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I'm really curious why there is so much hate for the elf/human relationships in warcraft?


    1. Personally I quite liked Vereesa/Rhonin and really want to see the twins developed.
    2. I also was fine with Alleria/Turalyon and really liked how their story was improved in legion and took time to reunite with Arator their son I'd love to see more of
    3. Sylvanas/Nathanos seems the forbidden love story, or the dark twisted type


    My observation though, is that:

    • it is a bit weird how far more prominent elf/human cross breeding is than any other, and
    • equally weird is that it's ALWAYS female elves with male humans,
    • also the lack of any prominent pure Thalassian elf couples.

    In fact the only elven couple I can think of are Malfurion and Tyrande that actaully has had any noticeable storytelling impact. Yes there is some mention of Jarods wife (though she died) and the occasional small quest other, but I can't think of any really that is noticeable off the top of my head.


    Still, why the hate?
    It's a classic fantasy trope that Tolkein made popular. If you'll look at all the times when he got people from different races together it's always the female who is from the more "special" race. Human man, hook him up with a female elf to show how awesome they are. Elf man, hook him up with a female angel to show the same reason.

    As for your other point, Fandral Staghelm not only lost his son but was a widower as well, and it contributed to his start of darkness. Also his daughter-in-law Leyara. You might not recognize her by name, but you'll know her by deed. She was the fire druid who burned Hamuul Runetotem all but to death and led to his extended convalescence. Her start of darkness was also brought on by the loss of her husband, which is how her father-in-law Fandral got her on his side.

    There's also other sources. Admittedly powerful but normal human sorcrer Nielas Aran plus immortal Guardian Aegwynn equals immortal Guardian Medivh. Wild God Malorne and straight up diety Elune equals Cenarius god of all nature.
    Last edited by cparle87; 2019-12-27 at 10:25 AM.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    It's a classic fantasy trope that Tolkein made popular. If you'll look at all the times when he got people from different races together it's always the female who is from the more "special" race. Human man, hook him up with a female elf to show how awesome they are. Elf man, hook him up with a female angel to show the same reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post

    .
    I haven't really seen "elf man hook up with any none elf", I would be curious about that too. What is wrong with that anyway? why is it now a trope and hated? - that is the logic i don't quite get, but do you think it would be be different if we had many or a much larger number of elf-elf couples visible? I do admit it is a bit weird that Thalassian elves don't seem to have notable relationships except when it is with human males - almost like some forced dev fantasy, is the dislike because their population doens't actually share the same fetish or finds the strength of it cringeworthy?

    Admitedly it is quite strong in warcraft especially given the lack of elf-elf couples, but you could also argue, that the story demands a spotlight shone on it because of how incredibly rare it is, and it is to be assumed that elf-elf is the vast majority, and not worth bringing to play given the story isn't really told from the perspective of each race, but rather as globalist perspective focusing on mass armies and alliances.

    Would that make the hate therefore irrational or unwarranted or at the very least unjustified?

    As for your other point, Fandral Staghelm not only lost his son but was a widower as well, and it contributed to his start of darkness. Also his daughter-in-law Leyara. You might not recognize her by name, but you'll know her by deed. She was the fire druid who burned Hamuul Runetotem all but to death and led to his extended convalescence. Her start of darkness was also brought on by the loss of her husband, which is how her father-in-law Fandral got her on his side.

    There's also other sources. Admittedly powerful but normal human sorcrer Nielas Aran plus immortal Guardian Aegwynn equals immortal Guardian Medivh. Wild God Malorne and straight up diety Elune equals Cenarius god of all nature
    This kinda proves my point that they only show us the cross breeding or the exceptional circumstances, because they are rare and have led to some tragedy or can give rise to hate or conflict - so it might not be a fetish but a tool intentionally made to cause us to hate.


    I do notice there is far more hate of human/elf coupling in the Windrunner sisters amongst
    the horde fans, and it is far more likeable amongst the alliance fans.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2019-12-27 at 10:48 AM.

  4. #4
    The lore community is going through a pretty crazy period of hatred for basically any and all human characters, that's partly why.

    Also the most famous cross race relationships in WoW lore are between Humans and Blood Elves and look, people get really fucking weird about Blood Elves. Like really fucking weird.
    Last edited by Niroshi; 2019-12-27 at 10:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Pit Lord Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    Some Horde/BE fans don't like Blood Elves to have ties to the Alliance as that keeps their waifus away from their preferred faction. Especially in Alleria's case.

  6. #6
    @cparle87 there is also Kalecgos /Jaina - though not sure what to make of that one.

  7. #7
    I am quite puzzled by this too, since all three sisters are not basically damsels in distress waiting for that human potential to save them. For example, Alleria is actually the one who ends up saving Turalyon's life and she has developed in a unique way that does not depend at all from what Turalyon does. Same thing for Vereesa, she has been a widow for many years now and is the leader of a paramilitary organization which is actually very morally grey. Let's not even talk about Sylvanas, who basically treats Nathanos like her sex toy and he actually obliges.

    It's just that a lot of people in this lore forum are edgy Horde fanboys who dislike anything remotely similar to what Tolkien did and at the same time enjoy LARPing as racist supremacists, so they just go around spouting nonsense like "Alleria is just a miserable womb for Turalyon, now that Arator exists she has served her purpose".

    Also it's not just female elves who have a thing for humans, because Kael'thas also wanted to get laid with Jaina and got pretty salty when she chose Arthas over him. I guess that means Kael'thas was also a traitor to the superior Sin'dorei master race.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2019-12-27 at 10:52 AM.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

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  8. #8
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    cringe as fuck, cliche and boring, thats why

  9. #9
    Cause humans are gross, why ruin a good elf by putting them with a smelly human?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Niroshi View Post
    The lore community is going through a pretty crazy period of hatred for basically any and all human characters, that's partly why.

    Also the most famous cross race relationships in WoW lore are between Humans and Blood Elves and look, people get really fucking weird about Blood Elves. Like really fucking weird.
    The hatred of Anduin is astonishing, he is actually quite likeable, which is rare for warcraft, not like his father in a good way, which is something they don't often pull off well enough. Don't get the hate there, to me he has cted quite smart and wisely but in pursuit of peace and preventing war, only going to it when absolutely necessary, and has actually been written to pull of victories like no other alliance leader has over the horde since WoW began - but maybe that makes him a Mary Sue character? I also don't understand the criticsm of having no flaws, he has loads struggles, traumas, but for a change, unlike so many other characters, he successfully overcomes them without falling.. this is not an impossible feat, we are all capable of this, it's just rare in individuals, but it is something you'd definitely want in a King.

    So why the hate? especially amongst alliance fans? And while I don't have any boner for human male /elf relationships, i thought Anduin with Vaneesa Sanguinar would ahve been exciting, but more for the fact she is an orphan, a proud blood elf and the two have seemed to work together and like each other more so than the fact that she is an elf or anything like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I am quite puzzled by this too, since all three sisters are not basically damsels in distress waiting for that human potential to save them. For example, Alleria is actually the one who ends up saving Turalyon's life and she has developed in a unique way that does not depend at all from what Turalyon does. Same thing for Vereesa, she has been a widow for many years now and is the leader of a paramilitary organization which is actually very morally grey. Let's not even talk about Sylvanas, who basically treats Nathanos like her sex toy and he actually obliges.

    It's just that a lot of people in this lore forum are edgy Horde fanboys who dislike anything remotely similar to what Tolkien did and at the same time enjoy LARPing as racist supremacists, so they just go around spouting nonsense like "Alleria is just a miserable womb for Turalyon, now that Arator exists she has served her purpose".

    Also it's not just female elves who have a thing for humans, because Kael'thas also wanted to get laid with Jaina and got pretty salty when she chose Arthas over him. I guess that means Kael'thas was also a traitor to the superior Sin'dorei master race.
    I don't even get that either, what is so wrong with liking Tolkein stuff too? I mean it's hugely popular, it shouldn't be treated as a live adder to have sizeable elements of it I your story.. I never had a problem with high elves, and I welcomed the blood elf and void elf variaations as interesting, but didn't find the high elf boring just because tolkein had that.. what about the dwarves? Wow dwarves are carbon copy , and in fact every dwarf presentation has been, yet you have no complaints there, because dwarves are gritty and not pretty?


    I forgot the Kael'thas Jaina thing, that was well done too, although it never happened, I would have liked it to be a more interesting love trio, reminds me of K-drama 16 episode Netflix special, with Jaina the grand Admiral daughter been vied for by the both the high elven heir and the Lordareon Kingdoms heir - Kael'thas taking full advantage of her Dalaran membership to get more alone time, meanwhile frustrating Arthas, who sees another guy is moving in on his girl, and trying to stop it. - Perhaps a little bit cheesy, although not in a bad way if done in a refreshingly differnet way.

  11. #11
    With this passive-agressive ideas i can say that Alliance like this because they were always weird to get Blood Elves to their side no matter what. But actually this is not about it.

    First of all almost all Thalassian characters from books has something with humans. Lovers for Windrunners and Kael'thas. Best friends for Valeera.
    There are really little characters left who has actually normal healthy relationship without actually forsake everything what makes them independent thinking person.

    In second. Windruners are pretty creepy mainly because they just threw everything but their human husband away because ....because reasons. But this is not just hate against Anduin or humans as general. You can see Windrunners with orcs and hate will remain same.


    As Syegfryed told us in quite-less civilized way. "It's cringe as fuck." and i rather see them forsake everything with elf-male than another human-husband.

  12. #12
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I'm really curious why there is so much hate for the elf/human relationships in the fan community of warcraft?
    I have no idea, because I don't encounter "so much hate"..in fact, I cannot recall ever hearing about it, before you brought it to my attention. Are there like recent topics you can link to?

    I mean..I am aware that some people like Vulpera and others think you are a furry weirdo if you do...but elves / humans? Not so much.

    The examples you mentioned to me (if someone dilikes them) are dislikes of the character as written, not the fact that they "cross-breed"

  13. #13
    I want see Alliance players as some of their famous human female forsake Alliance and whole family for relationship with troll. Then she make kids with him and start attack Alliance soldiers with Horde colors. Saying "I hate Night Elves because they killing my parents when i was little girl."

    It will be hillarious see some of Alliance guys here who instantly change their mind about it.

  14. #14
    It's a fantasy cliche and also an extension of the human potential meme. The same reason why eyebrows get raised when in Avatar the lead is within a tiny amount of time more proficient at being the aliens than the actual aliens and is banging the chief's daughter. Or when Tom Cruise hooks up with the head samurai's sister. It's just stock wish fulfillment and it rubs up against the fact that where in most fantasy humans are either everymen or underdogs, in WoW, they're masters of all vocations.

    In terms of the actual characters it applies to, only Vereesa and Rhonin is purely writer wish-fulfillment. Alleria and Turalyon's relationship is mostly just cliche. Beyond the Dark Portal fucks with the characters by having Turalyon chill out whereas Alleria is the one who has to learn to be calm, despite Turalyon's whole religious relevation being on the basis of orcs being inhuman, but that's the worst of it. Kael and Sylvanas's interest in humans is probably the best handled in the sense that both are actually explored in that dynamic. Nathanos, despite also being clearly something the writer is personally into, is given endless shit by elves and is also pussywhipped, whereas Kael is considered a weirdo by his people for hanging out in a human city more than his home and lusting after a woman hundreds of years younger than him.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-12-27 at 11:53 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  15. #15
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Because its shitty waifuism. You know that anime where guy from real world ends up in fantasy world and there are 10 bitches who instantly fall in love with him? Its the same thing. The sole purpose of those characters is to prove that human lead male is alpha chad.

    Its actually funny how many people criticise this (admitely really dumb and obnoxious) trope in anime, yet fail to notice the absolutely same thing in western fantasy.

    Also OrcXElf is much better pairing as pointed out by certain comics.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It's a fantasy cliche and also an extension of the human potential meme. The same reason why eyebrows get raised when in Avatar the lead is within a tiny amount of time more proficient at being the aliens than the actual aliens and is banging the chief's daughter. Or when Tom Cruise hooks up with the head samurai's sister. It's just stock wish fulfillment and it rubs up against the fact that where in most fantasy humans are either everymen or underdogs, in WoW, they're masters of all vocations.

    Oo.. I especially don't like that. Part of the charm about humans is being the underdogs to many of these other races and seeing them achieve or do some extraordinary exceptional things which speaks to us in this age as having the potential to be so much more tby the examples of the few that rise up.. except in wow, the humans seem to have no flaws and do nothing wrong and always perform better than members of native races who are supposet o shine in certain areas.. which just makes you think..wtf, what's the point?


    In terms of the actual characters it applies to, only Vereesa and Rhonin is purely writer wish-fulfillment. Alleria and Turalyon's relationship is mostly just cliche. Beyond the Dark Portal fucks with the characters by having Turalyon chill out whereas Alleria is the one who has to learn to be calm, despite Turalyon's whole religious relevation being on the basis of orcs being inhuman, but that's the worst of it. Kael and Sylvanas's interest in humans is probably the best handled in the sense that both are actually explored in that dynamic. Nathanos, despite also being clearly something the writer is personally into, is given endless shit by elves and is also pussywhipped, whereas Kael is considered a weirdo by his people for hanging out in a human city more than his home and lusting after a woman hundreds of years younger than him.
    But surely Kael'thas and Sylvanas' interests in the light you've just pointed out makes Alleria and Vereesa's acceptable variations, are they just boring because they've been done before elsehwhere and if you're familiar with the fantasy genre you're bored of it? You have to bear in mind many of us who are not familiar with the genre, and wow may be our firs tand even only excursion into it. Is Vereesa's "wish-fulfilllment" of the writer or Alleria/Turalyon's mostly cliché actually bad or worthy of hate in that light? Or are they acceptable.

    I buy Alleria/turalyon's even though there wasn't much explanation, .. I'ts a long time since I read day of the dragon, so VEreesa/Rhonin is abit hazy, don't recall much really how the writer brought that one out. But I wonder if Rhonin hate was responsible for the hate of that coupling? Vereesa wasn't actually hated much until Wrath put her on the warpath against blood elves, and then she has been absolutely strongly despised by the horde half (which is as it should be I guess, but only from an in game perspective), the degree of hate though is perplexing, there shouldn't be any surely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Because its shitty waifuism. You know that anime where guy from real world ends up in fantasy world and there are 10 bitches who instantly fall in love with him? Its the same thing. The sole purpose of those characters is to prove that human lead male is alpha chad.

    Its actually funny how many people criticise this (admitely really dumb and obnoxious) trope in anime, yet fail to notice the absolutely same thing in western fantasy.

    Also OrcXElf is much better pairing as pointed out by certain comics.
    You had me roflmao in your first sentence, but if it is' so popular with guys, why is it hated here so much? I know some hate anime/waifuism, but we do have lots of fans of it, although it's a bit old.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    But surely Kael'thas and Sylvanas' interests in the light you've just pointed out makes Alleria and Vereesa's acceptable variations, are they just boring because they've been done before elsehwhere and if you're familiar with the fantasy genre you're bored of it? You have to bear in mind many of us who are not familiar with the genre, and wow may be our firs tand even only excursion into it. Is Vereesa's "wish-fulfilllment" of the writer or Alleria/Turalyon's mostly cliché actually bad or worthy of hate in that light? Or are they acceptable.
    Only gonna reply to this part, since the other is for the inevitable human potential topics. It's not so much that Kael and especially Sylvanas' human related relationships are unique, they aren't. Sylvanas's setup is very close to Alleria's and both Nathanos and Jaina are the kind of humans who are better at their chosen specialization than those who've done it for centuries. Rather it's that they are handled societally. Sylvanas's relationship with Nathanos is an extension of her overall fairly outward oriented approach as regards humans and why she so easily fit in with being the leader of Lordaeronian humans, and this also got her bad rep back home because it was unusual, ditto Nathanos was dismissed by rangers. Kael's example is even better, since post-Chronicle, his infatuation with Jaina is part of his whole separation from Quel'thalas, that he was a cosmopolitan figure not really taken seriously back home, who wanted to prove himself to them and ultimately had their fate rest on his shoulders. And the fact that the giant age gap and the cultural difference made it one-sided just further got it across that he didn't mesh with either world all that much. These relationships gel with the characters and have some thematic purpose.

    I don't really hate or even much dislike any of these, since Rhonin's in the ground, and while Alleria and Turalyon were massively arch characters back in the day, their relationship has potential, what with being absentee parents and also being made of competing cosmic forces.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  18. #18
    The issue isn't that elves and humans have relationships but that you'd generally expect that to be exception yet here we are having more notable elfxhuman pairings than notable elfxelf pairings.

  19. #19
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niroshi View Post
    The lore community is going through a pretty crazy period of hatred for basically any and all human characters, that's partly why.

    Also the most famous cross race relationships in WoW lore are between Humans and Blood Elves and look, people get really fucking weird about Blood Elves. Like really fucking weird.
    Yeah, or just elves in general. It's apparently perfectly fine to make rule34 fan images or fiction about self insert and elves, but to actually have an actual lore between elves and humans is just absurd apparently?

    It's never made sense why people in these kinds of communities, and not just wow but any fantasy based communities, get so up their tight rear ends about mixed races being together, when these races are as sentient as one another. It just comes off as pretentious to get upset at something like this, but guess these kinds of communities are just full of pretentious whiners

  20. #20
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    "Hybrid" characters tend to be the stock and trade of terrible "original character" templates - like WoW's nadir example, Med'an, a hybrid Draenei/Human/Orc whose genetics somehow give him access to being a multi-class Paladin/Mage/Shaman (an ability none of WoW's other hybrid race examples like Arator has). I don't have anything against Half-Elves or the like as long as the characters in question are interesting and internally consistent - like Arator himself, although he doesn't really have much a footprint in the lore.

    The thing with the three Windrunner sisters all ending up with Human mates is a bit bizarre from a statistical standpoint, but it doesn't bother me overly. Perhaps Sylvanas' two sisters took their subconscious cues from their elder sister's flirtations with Nathanos, or perhaps Human/Elven relationships aren't as rare as they seem and are simply kept quiet due to the culture of both peoples about cross-species relationships (the Quel'dorei/Sin'dorei definitely seemed to disapprove of them).
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