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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Target Audience - WoW Players.

    Not the Target Audience - WoW Workers.

    If you like PLAYING the game - then BfA was for you.

    If you treat it like a job - then it probably sucked.
    This. End of every thread like this.

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    BfA's target audience are the top .001% Mythic raiders and the <4 hours a week casual. For these groups, BfA can be great. Now, for everyone else... I mean, their intent on BfA was (seemingly) a less grindy Legion. And they got at least that part right - until Essences were added.
    "This world is a prison!"

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    BfA's target audience are the top .001% Mythic raiders and the <4 hours a week casual. For these groups, BfA can be great. Now, for everyone else... I mean, their intent on BfA was (seemingly) a less grindy Legion. And they got at least that part right - until Essences were added.
    I feel perfectly fine as top 400-1000 mythic raider without doing all that shit.
    And essences? Ez to get except for pvp ones.

    I am pretty sure they cannot correctly estimate or plan their target audience if they don't give a flying fuck about their audience opinion.
    Wonder if they ever heard about "feedback loop"

    Thats what it suppose to look like:



    Instead I have a feeling it looks more like this:


  4. #24
    The same as it always was. What kind of a question is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    If you like PLAYING the game - then BfA was for you.

    If you treat it like a job - then it probably sucked.
    What?

    Getting essences on every alt to max rank? What could be more like a job than that?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Heaven View Post
    Getting essences on every alt to max rank? What could be more like a job than that?
    Highlighted you making it a job, not a game.... as I said, if you made WoW a job then of course it would suck.

    Boycotting Blizzard is like a lactose intolerant person boycotting milk purchases to protest about cruelty to cows, then eating his hamburger whilst doing so.
    If you want to protest against China - then do something meaningful and protest against China

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Wonder if they ever heard about "feedback loop"
    They have. They've demonstrated this often. The problem here is that their feedback loop is aprox. 2 years long, because they only implement big changes/new features/class overhauls in major x.0 releases. And somehow they think it's not worth talking about anything else but major releases at Blizzcon.

    Their releases move in such a glacial pace, the forums have already resigned to "Blizzard doesn't listen" and a year later they implement the feedback collected in 2017.

    That doesn't really work with modern "Internet time" where people except reply within 5 minutes or it's a "total joke lol". Trying to explain this and make their feedback loop seem "alive" is one of their biggest challenges - but it doesn't seem like they're too concerned about this.

    Dev watercooler blogs are gone. Q&A videos never talk about design decisions (and they're really hard to search for information). They collect, they evaluate, they implement - but it's a long loop.

    D&D Beyond does fantastic modern feedback loop out open on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...H8u6rqyQVZ5YSN

    I wish more gaming companies would do this
    Last edited by Frolo Bobbins; 2019-12-29 at 07:45 AM.

  7. #27
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    As Bobby Kodick already said, he view gamers in general as idiots who will pay anything for games
    Target audience is just numbers to please shareholders to keep the company on top, nothing else

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    BfA's target audience are the top .001% Mythic raiders and the <4 hours a week casual. For these groups, BfA can be great. Now, for everyone else... I mean, their intent on BfA was (seemingly) a less grindy Legion. And they got at least that part right - until Essences were added.
    it is just flat out less work than Legion, they even said that in a disaster interview pre-BFA that they are taking step back and doing less work for BFA (they even said exact word of 'less work', yes it was PR disaster and u probably remember it if u are mmo regular)
    of course they withdrew that statement later and said sh8t like it was taken out of its context etc
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Highlighted you making it a job, not a game.... as I said, if you made WoW a job then of course it would suck.
    Ah of course. I made it a job. Blizzard designed the game to include tasks, that are not fun, and need to be completed to obtain essential things, but I am the one that made it into a "job".

  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire Odintdk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Heaven View Post
    Ah of course. I made it a job. Blizzard designed the game to include tasks, that are not fun, and need to be completed to obtain essential things, but I am the one that made it into a "job".
    You're the one who wants alts. The game loop is designed around your main character (as it always should), and if you want several characters/alts, then you're simply creating more tasks to be done in order to progress all characters.. You either invest time to have more characters geared up and having all the essence ranks, or you play the game casually/averagely on one character and could easily achieve the same on that character. You can't have it both ways, but I'm sure you're just pretending to be dense at this point.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Odintdk View Post
    You're the one who wants alts. The game loop is designed around your main character (as it always should),
    But even on my main character, getting the essences I need to rank 4 is work. Even without playing any alts at all.

    And as for alts, there is no reason they can't or shouldn't be accountwide. There is no reason Blizzard would want to make this entire process unfun to the point of people completely nope-ing out of it and not dealing with it at all. There is no point in making the game not fun to play.
    Last edited by Outer Heaven; 2019-12-29 at 08:48 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Heaven View Post
    Ah of course. I made it a job.
    Yep - that is a choice, nothing wrong with the choice - but BfA just wasn't made for people like you who make it a job.

    Boycotting Blizzard is like a lactose intolerant person boycotting milk purchases to protest about cruelty to cows, then eating his hamburger whilst doing so.
    If you want to protest against China - then do something meaningful and protest against China

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Heaven View Post
    Getting essences on every alt to max rank? What could be more like a job than that?
    Why the fuck would you ever need to do that for?
    That's a very good example of turning needless tasks into a job just because you choose to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Heaven View Post
    But even on my main character, getting the essences I need to rank 4 is work.
    Why would do you that?
    You're a glutton for punishment

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Heaven View Post
    But even on my main character, getting the essences I need to rank 4 is work.
    You don't need any essences at rank 4, but just play playing the game I've got 3 to rank 4.
    Getting them to rank 3 doesn't need much either, just follow the game play along - and I got all but 3 to rank 3.

    Boycotting Blizzard is like a lactose intolerant person boycotting milk purchases to protest about cruelty to cows, then eating his hamburger whilst doing so.
    If you want to protest against China - then do something meaningful and protest against China

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
    Beta testers?
    LMFAO - soon as i read this i legit burst out laughing lol... im not even on mmo champ that much

  15. #35
    Fluffy Kitten MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    The players that enjoyed Legion. It was, in some ways, a miss because it was systemically it was too much like Legion.

    @kaminaris
    It's nearly impossible to respond well to feedback when you're locking down a feature-complete version of the next expansion while the current one still has a year to run. This is the nature of how slow Blizzard is to bring products to completion. Any real thoughtful feedback that requires serious system changes isn't going to make it into any product until expansion-after-next. Story, art, anything that requires serious coding, all of that is at the very least on a two-year lead time. Yeah, some things can be done more quickly but their code is loaded to the gills with opportunities for unintended consequences so it takes years for user feedback to work its way into the base code. So that third portion of the feedback loop may not be missing but may be delayed for so long that it can look that way.

    Frankly after seven years here and longer on the Blizz boards the quality of user feedback is so bad and the desires of such a large set of players so contradictory that they're better off ignoring all of it. Raids work very well because in reality the initial design for mythic is set up for 1%-3% of all players.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2019-12-29 at 09:04 AM.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You don't need any essences at rank 4, but just play playing the game I've got 3 to rank 4.
    Getting them to rank 3 doesn't need much either, just follow the game play along - and I got all but 3 to rank 3.
    Also, unless you're doing "serious" PvP, M+ or raiding, you don't need rank 3's on all your alts.
    You're going to be JUST FINE with rank 2's for casual content (and especially for alt play)

  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans
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    their target audience? the same as it always has been.... yeah BfA hasn't been the greatest expansion but it has had some good stuff in it. I think the main problem was it was two grindy expansions (artifact power and azerite power) in a row. which was a problem. but the changes that they have made during the expansion (essences etc) were good.

  18. #38
    The people obsessed with the Horde Vs Alliance shit/the people who beat off when they kill someone in pvp

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Yep - that is a choice, nothing wrong with the choice - but BfA just wasn't made for people like you who make it a job.
    But if I am the one making it a job, then how come BFA wasn't made for me? Because BFA allows me to make it a job, so it's really perfect for people like me.

    See how nothing you say makes any sense you dumb Blizzard shil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolo Bobbins View Post
    Why the fuck would you ever need to do that for?
    Yeah why would I need rank 4 essences. Great question.

    Gee, if I don't need them, then what is the point of them? Blizzard wants people to need them, otherwise they won't go and get them. Use your brain, at least as much as you can with your double digit IQ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You don't need any essences at rank 4
    I don't need any gear either, I can just play naked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolo Bobbins View Post
    Also, unless you're doing "serious" PvP, M+ or raiding, you don't need rank 3's on all your alts.
    You're going to be JUST FINE with rank 2's for casual content (and especially for alt play)
    Yeah if you don't do anything challenging, you don't need them. Great point. If you're one of these people that just goes around killing rare spawns for world quests, you don't need them. Great. I'm just gonna go that. I'll just do trivial content like old raids and solo stuff.

  20. #40
    Single player casuals who love to collect things and spend their $$ for mounts that will not be used more than 1 day.

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