[Classic] Help my Thorns build!

[Sigxy]

Yo gang!

I'm having a blast with Classic. Right now I'm leveling a second paladin that will be dedicated to tanking - but I wanted to see if I could make some kind of meme build. I'm planning on making it a "Thorns build" as the title mentions, but rather unsure of how to make it work. If by some chance you don't know what that is: It's basically returning as much damage as possible to the attacker. This, combined with Consecration aura, I feel they can have some insane AoE potential.

For now this build is purely for 5-man dungeons. I will not be raiding on it (though my guild would help me get Quel'Serrar) and thus my gear is limited to those dungeons. So far I've only managed to come up with this though: https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-pla...fDD0g_ED2-ETQ_

The idea is that I will try put all of these into use:
Abilities:Retribution Aura, Blessing of Sanctuary, Holy Shield (Even if limited and not so much passive), potentially actual Thorns if a druid is tagging along.
Gear: Crest of Retribution, Naglering, Razor Gauntlets.
Enchants/Addons: Thorium Shield Spike.

Potential loot: Judgement Leggings and Helmet, Skullflame Shield, Cloak of Flames, Essence of Pure Flame.

Other things I'm trying to keep in mind with this gear: Have MP/5 to keep Consecration up and not have to spend too much time drinking, as well as not getting TOO much defense. While it's important to obviously have it, paladins are a bit odd as you need to be critically struck to get extra block chance - which means more damage returned. Problem is that I can't find any good 'defense cap' outside of raids, making it hard to figure out what I should stop at - given how that stat also increases block chance which is needed.

If you have any suggestions on how to improve the gear/talents that I linked, I'd appreciate it! Just remember to try stick to non-raiding!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I’d recommend farming crystals in ungoro for 15 of two types (don’t remember which) you can get 5 of a consumable that gives you a lighting Shield for 5min. I believe you can have 20 on you at any given time but you can always go back and get more.

[Hamanis]

There are thorn gauntlets from Dire Maul and a thorns trinket from Ragnaros that most people dont want that would work well with the thorns build.

I’d recommend farming crystals in ungoro for 15 of two types (don’t remember which) you can get 5 of a consumable that gives you a lighting Shield for 5min. I believe you can have 20 on you at any given time but you can always go back and get more.

They dont work in dungeons, I tried for Lasher Farming.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They dont work in dungeons, I tried for Lasher Farming.

They worked for me when I did sunken temple though it’s the only dungeon I’ve tried them in.

[Kralljin]

The only item i can think would be those Thorn gauntlets from DM:East, as others have mentioned.

However, i'd consider still going for that Rag trinket, that Trinket is literally a dead drop in virtually any raid, if you tell to the RL you want it for some build, they might give it to you.
And having straight up 13 damage per hit is insane for this sort of build.
Aside from that, perhaps stock up on Oil of Immolation, technically not an item with a "thorns" effect, but still damn useful for this sort of thing.

Also, try going for some Plate items with spelldamage on it, it does boost the damage of Consecration and Holy Shield afaik.

[Sigxy]

I’d recommend farming crystals in ungoro for 15 of two types (don’t remember which) you can get 5 of a consumable that gives you a lighting Shield for 5min. I believe you can have 20 on you at any given time but you can always go back and get more.

Might as well as I'll be farming Arcane Crystals in that place, even if consumables are annoying for me to have around. Buh!

There are thorn gauntlets from Dire Maul and a thorns trinket from Ragnaros that most people dont want that would work well with the thorns build.

Oh yeah, those gloves - thanks! Sadly the trinket from Ragnaros is unlikely, but maybe once I get all I need for my main on Ragnaros I can ask if it's alright if I swap to my tank paladin for it.

The only item i can think would be those Thorn gauntlets from DM:East, as others have mentioned.

However, i'd consider still going for that Rag trinket, that Trinket is literally a dead drop in virtually any raid, if you tell to the RL you want it for some build, they might give it to you.
And having straight up 13 damage per hit is insane for this sort of build.
Aside from that, perhaps stock up on Oil of Immolation, technically not an item with a "thorns" effect, but still damn useful for this sort of thing.

Also, try going for some Plate items with spelldamage on it, it does boost the damage of Consecration and Holy Shield afaik.

Yeah, potentially if I'm lucky I can get tier 2 leggings from Ragnaros and maybe helm from Onyxia in terms of spell power and even some MP/5. But for now I'm trying to keep the list as non-raid loot and have those as "potential items"!

[StrawberryZebra]

If you have any suggestions on how to improve the gear/talents that I linked, I'd appreciate it! Just remember to try stick to non-raiding!

If you're planning on being an Engineer, the Force Reactive Disk is a great choice that synergises well with a Paladins kit. The item is BoE, so you can get hold of it without raiding yourself. Engineering also gives you access to useful consumables for pulling, something which Paladins distinctly lack in their base kit, as well as extra AoE damage consumables.

Cloak of Flames is another BoE that might be worth checking the AH for if you're willing to spend the gold for it.

For consumables, you should consider Oil of Immolation if you don't need your potions for extra Mana and Dragon Breath Chili if you don't need your food buff for stats.

Do remember though that Righteous Fury only gives you bonus threat based on your Holy damage. As nice as the extra reflective damage is, it won't bump your threat up as much as you might think. If you want to ramp up your overall threat you really want to look at Spell Damage items.

As for your build, I'd move the points in Spiritual Focus to Imp. Judgement. Spiritual Focus is really an all or nothing talent, you either max it out and use it with Concentration Aura to heal without pushback, or you don't bother with it. Realistically, if you're healing yourself while tanking it means you're either going to die soon anyway or run out of Mana and lose aggro soon. While playing solo Seal of Light is generally enough to take care of most of your in combat healing needs by itself.

If you want to keep the points in Holy, Improved Lay on Hands reduces the cooldown of your most useful tanking cooldown by 20 minutes, which can let you get an extra use of it during longer dungeons. Unyielding Faith also lets you resist two of the most common aggro dumps mobs use since you can't just Berserker Rage out of them like a Warrior. It's not a super useful talent, but it will get you some milage at least.

I’d recommend farming crystals in ungoro for 15 of two types (don’t remember which) you can get 5 of a consumable that gives you a lighting Shield for 5min. I believe you can have 20 on you at any given time but you can always go back and get more.

That would be Crystal Spire. The quest linked has all the information you need to farm as many as you'd like.

They dont work in dungeons, I tried for Lasher Farming.

The Lashers in Dire Maul are immune to Nature damage. The consumable works just fine for mobs that aren't immune.

[Sigxy]

If you're planning on being an Engineer, the Force Reactive Disk is a great choice that synergises well with a Paladins kit. The item is BoE, so you can get hold of it without raiding yourself. Engineering also gives you access to useful consumables for pulling, something which Paladins distinctly lack in their base kit, as well as extra AoE damage consumables.

Cloak of Flames is another BoE that might be worth checking the AH for if you're willing to spend the gold for it.

For consumables, you should consider Oil of Immolation if you don't need your potions for extra Mana and Dragon Breath Chili if you don't need your food buff for stats.

Do remember though that Righteous Fury only gives you bonus threat based on your Holy damage. As nice as the extra reflective damage is, it won't bump your threat up as much as you might think. If you want to ramp up your overall threat you really want to look at Spell Damage items.

As for your build, I'd move the points in Spiritual Focus to Imp. Judgement. Spiritual Focus is really an all or nothing talent, you either max it out and use it with Concentration Aura to heal without pushback, or you don't bother with it. Realistically, if you're healing yourself while tanking it means you're either going to die soon anyway or run out of Mana and lose aggro soon. While playing solo Seal of Light is generally enough to take care of most of your in combat healing needs by itself.

If you want to keep the points in Holy, Improved Lay on Hands reduces the cooldown of your most useful tanking cooldown by 20 minutes, which can let you get an extra use of it during longer dungeons. Unyielding Faith also lets you resist two of the most common aggro dumps mobs use since you can't just Berserker Rage out of them like a Warrior. It's not a super useful talent, but it will get you some milage at least.

I'm going to see what I can do with the Spiritual Focus. Since I plan on doing a lot of pulls on my own (low level dungeons for example), the healing could be good just in case something goes wrong. And I know Righteous Fury only works for holy damage, but I do think I have enough to keep the threat with everything involved in this! Plus if it's single target, pop SotC so it takes more damage from holy sources. That, and blessing of salvation is a good tool!

Definitely going to consider the Cloak of Flames though as potential loot if I can get my hands on it! Thanks!

[StrawberryZebra]

I'm going to see what I can do with the Spiritual Focus. Since I plan on doing a lot of pulls on my own (low level dungeons for example), the healing could be good just in case something goes wrong.

You can't Block, Dodge or Parry attacks while casting a spell. Since you'll still be taking spell pushback, you're going to find yourself casting for much longer than you think. Maxing out Spiritual Focus and using Concentration Aura gives you a 100% chance to resist pushback, meaning you can reliably cast in melee range without it taking double or triple the cast time to complete.

Even if you maxed out Spiritual Focus and swap to Concentration Aura, you can end up in the situation where you take more damage casting a heal than you've actually managed to heal yourself for simply due to not being able to avoid hits.

The big catch in all of this of course is you also need to use Concentration Aura. That'll mean no Retribution Aura. If you switch in combat, it'll be an extra GCD on top before you can even start to cast a heal effectively. You won't be struggling to find free GCD's of course, but that extra time it takes has to be accounted for too.

As for low level dungeons, the level scaling is quite extreme in Classic. Even a 3 level advantage over a mob gives you huge bonuses to your chance to avoid hits, increases your armour's effectiveness and increases your overall damage. Just think of what an uphill struggle it is taking on a mob thats 3-4 levels above you, they resist everything and you barely tickle them when you do get a hit through. You're doing exactly that to low level mobs, it's built into the core game mechanics.

Most likely you can get away with using Seal/Judgment of Light and healing out of combat. If things do go south, you've always got Bubble to fall back on - There's no disadvantage at all to using it while solo.