Page 18 of 21 FirstFirst ...
8
16
17
18
19
20
... LastLast
  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Go through the very post, i never said it was impossible, i never said casual can't do it.
    I called it BS because you're not clearing MC with your average MC pug.

    You, by the way, also shifted from "no consumables, just 30 people, 100% pug" to "lol no world buffs".



    And i've made it clear that this isn't the norm.



    Warriors for example have a bit more quirks that a lot people aren't aware of.
    Case in point, heroic strike messing with the hit chance of your offhand.

    Or Tanks, which basically control your dps, you believe that managing rage as tank is easy, too hard for some people.

    One of the most popular tanking specs atm for warriors is dual daggers, wtf are you talking about? And it doesnt "mess with" the hit chance, they ignore the DW hit penalty if HS is queued. You are backtracking, fast, and you know it.

    Its perfectly normal to clear MC in well under 90 minutes with a PuG, and i cannot understand why you are not aware of this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Low dps (yeah, screwing up rotation is difficult, but if you don't have any hit (or gear in general sucks), your dps still sucks)
    HAHAHHA, did you just string the words together "screwing up you ROTATION is difficult" when the majority of dps specs literally press 1 button almost the entire fight, with SOME pressing a second occasionally?

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I've done KJ on LFR. I'm pretty sure I am ready for (lol)Naxx. And I'm a third rate player in Classic. BWL will be a stroll in the park. AQ will be a joke. Naxx? Hahahaha. If the game even interests me to this point I'm doing naxx level dps now and I don't even have all blues yet. (I understand there is gear that is blue that is prenaxx bis, I don't have it). You are just delusional.

    Can't wait for the "we knew naxx was going to be easy, just wait for BC" threads.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Of course PS guilds struggle. Their hard content is my LFR. Retail would destroy most PS guilds.
    I mean considering p server players are dominating all aspects of classic i'm gonna have to say /doubt lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    Lmao someone here has never tried to do LFR g'huun, LFR KJ, LFR Garrosh or any number of other LFR bosses that a ton of LFR groups could not kill without an absurd number of stacks.

    Like, no, just no man. There are way more "retard checks" in retail than vanilla.

    I'd expect the average LFR raider to be about on par with your average classic raider in terms of mechanical ability. Obviously not all - but most people raiding on classic aren't exactly the cream of the crop.

    Which is perfectly fine - if people want to enjoy easier content, more power to them. But the idea classic has more "pass/fail" checks than retail raiding is just a very dubious claim.
    It does for the content most people see. Most people are terrible at the game.

    That's why they put in LFR so you didn't have any idiot checks.

    Both retail and classic are filled with TERRIBLE players.
    Last edited by Mukind; 2020-01-07 at 01:38 AM.

  3. #343
    OP says water is wet, and out pops 18 pages.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    One of the most popular tanking specs atm for warriors is dual daggers, wtf are you talking about? And it doesnt "mess with" the hit chance, they ignore the DW hit penalty if HS is queued. You are backtracking, fast, and you know it.

    Its perfectly normal to clear MC in well under 90 minutes with a PuG, and i cannot understand why you are not aware of this.
    It's only popular among stacked guilds and high end players, dagger tanking makes 0 sense in a guild that can't utilize the TPS.

    Also i'm starting to question wether you play classic at all, Cadet's pugs take approx 2 hours, which is probably the single best pug group out there right now.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    It's only popular among stacked guilds and high end players, dagger tanking makes 0 sense in a guild that can't utilize the TPS.

    Also i'm starting to question wether you play classic at all, Cadet's pugs take approx 2 hours, which is probably the single best pug group out there right now.
    takes only one gamer to make the TPS worth it...Often a warlock spamming shadowbolt

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisnumbers View Post
    OP says water is wet, and out pops 18 pages.
    Well yeah, because there remains a small group of individuals refusing to accept that water is infact wet, and instead try to start talking about ice and air.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    takes only one gamer to make the TPS worth it...Often a warlock spamming shadowbolt
    Doesn't make it "one of the most popular", sword & board is still the overwhelming majority of tanks followed by a small amount of dw, daggers don't come into the equation until your guild needs the TPS, which is generally not before Vael.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Go through the very first post, i never said it was impossible, i never said casual can't do it.
    I called it BS because you're not clearing MC with your average MC pug.

    You, by the way, also shifted from "no consumables, just 30 people, 100% pug" to "lol no world buffs".



    And i've made it clear that this isn't the norm.



    Warriors for example have a bit more quirks that a lot people aren't aware of.
    Case in point, heroic strike messing with the hit chance of your offhand.

    Or Tanks, which basically control your dps, you believe that managing rage as tank is easy, too hard for some people.



    Want to hear my anecdotal evidence? Here it is.

    Onyxia:
    1.Tanks unable to generate threat properly
    2.Dps pulling aggro in P1 and wiping half the raid with breath
    3.People dying to Deep breath
    4.Wiping because all of the above occurred because Healer Mana is limited

    Other experience out of MC, been in pug raid(s) where i've wiped on Bosses because people were unable to:
    Dispel
    Geddon Bomb
    Keep a mob banished / sheeped
    Not stack up
    Low dps (yeah, screwing up rotation is difficult, but if you don't have any hit (or gear in general sucks), your dps still sucks)

    That's where i said: "fuck it, i need a guild" and that experience was when people didn't have pre Raid BiS, access to DM or simply wiped themselves through MC until enough loot accumulated.
    Lol. Almost all my ony kills have had people die to deep breath and ony running around killing people because if aggro. Oh no, we have 15 people left. Still no wipes.

    In my very average player MC last week we had warlocks rip aggro off the big fire guy just as he did his flame aoe in melee. Guess who stood in it? Everyone. Then some warrior was laughing until he exploded in the raid. Half the raid dead, 16 people left, 75% left on the boss. No wipe.

    On that boss where there are lots of elementals. Every week a lock doesn't know what banish is and an add is just going around killing people. At least we know it's the skull target. Ok. I've wiped here twice before, but still.

    If you are telling me that me and the players I play with are not third rate losers who sometimes barely know that they aren't facing a boss...(that's strange, I don't see any numbers in my screen) just wow.

    The best thing about Naxx is that everyone has already seen it and crushed it in WotLK. It'll prob be easier than the 10 man version tbh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    I mean considering p server players are dominating all aspects of classic i'm gonna have to say /doubt lol
    You can spend your time /doubt all you want but it would be better spent learning reading comprehension.

    I said "Of course PS guilds struggle. Their hard content is my LFR. Retail would destroy most PS guilds."

    This was in response to the claim that on PS servers a lot of those players struggle with Naxx. The reason why is because the hardest content they do is equal to LFR on retail. How are they going to get any better if all they do is LFR level content. It's not like they had the experience of LFR in Legion or BFA let alone WotLK naxx.

    The top of the top in Classic is probably PS server people and they are likely the same people who dominate PS. That doesn't change the fact that your average retail player doesn't roll on in and ROFLSTOMP Classic raid content and will continue to do so through naxx.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  9. #349
    I've done ony a bunch of times now and shes never stayed in phase 2 long enough to deep breath, although her aggro is usually fucked in phase 3 and she just one taps a few ppl before someone who can tank gains aggro.

    I don't think it matters much for me if the raid content is a cake walk, the challenge is really the comittment to showing up and doing it over and over until you can move on. you have to farm molten core until you have enough dps / stamina to down bosses in bwl, can bwl be done in full blue gear, maybe. I don't think aq40 can be done without a decent amount of t2 so the real challenge is simply having everyone show up, get gear and then have the gear to move on. what really fucks you in classic is when geared players stop playing or just leave the guild. then you have to spend weeks gearing up new dudes. so while the content itself isn't super difficult, going through the whole thing with roughly the same 40 dudes is the challenge.

    I personally only got to broodlord the first time, i started raiding too late and missed most of bwl and aq40/naxx. I remember making a paladin for the naxx PTR (i played a priest back then and wanted to see what palas were like geared) it was the first PTR where they offered pre-made characters I managed to get to razuvious in a pug that was lagging like crazy and some mobs didn't even have models. suffice to say there was too much lag and everyone was too shit to down any bosses. I would like to see how far I can get, my bro plays as well so we get to raid together and help each other outside of raids. for me its just the fun of doing the content while its current. I'm tanking another tank got both bindings and i have the one from garr, if i eventually get the one from baron, we'll ultimately have two tanks with TF, hopefully before p6 hits. this gives me hope for our chances. when bwl comes out our tank CL will be able to start making his TF and then i can do mine. having two tanks with very good threat gen will be a boon for progress.

    I do think that the best guilds will clear bwl in the first raid, while not every guild will make that much progress in one run, I'm pretty certain that no-one is clearing aq40 or naxx in the first raid. I just don't see it being possible. I don't think there will be enough gear spread. enough time has passed to melt bwl but I think the latter half of aq40 will require more than just farming bwl to death. its going to require several raids through there until ppl have the pieces they need to finish it. likewise with naxx, you'll have to farm a certain amount of t3 before you're able to do kel'thuzad.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-01-07 at 04:51 AM.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    The best thing about Naxx is that everyone has already seen it and crushed it in WotLK. It'll prob be easier than the 10 man version tbh.
    Naxxramas 60 is a bit different than 80. A number of the bosses work completely differently. I don't think 40-man Naxxramas will be outrageously difficult or anything but it's going to be a lot harder than 10-man Naxxramas if that's your experience.

    I still remember in WOTLK people talked about Grobbulus being the hardest boss in 10-man, when he was the easiest boss in 40-man. But Grobbulus is the only boss that works basically the same.

    Notably most of the bosses are immune to taunt. This is a huge deal on a boss like Maexxna where the raid is stunned for 8 seconds, if the tank dies it's a wipe on 40. Other tanks won't be able to keep up on threat with no rage. If the tank died to the 4 second stun in 10-man Naxxramas you just shrug and taunt her. Also at 60 you can only have one of each HoT on the tank at a time.

    The main strategy in 10-man Naxxramas on Anub'Rekhan was to have the tank just eat the Locust Swarm in place. The Locust Swarm hits for well over the tank's maximum HP on 40-man so you are actually 100% required to kite the boss with a hunter.

    On Grand Widow Faerlina the rain of fire hits for 2k at level 60. 2.5k at level 80. HP is about 500% higher at level 80. Same with the poison bolt volley, the tuning difference is massive.

    Noth is similar, though the curse hits 40 players and one missed curse is a wipe. Taunt immunity matters a bit because of the blink and threat drop.

    Heigan teleports groups of five players into the tunnel before Loatheb at 60 and they have to run the gauntlet of trash back without dying. Also the dance is 27% faster at 60 (14 slime explosions vs 11 at 80).

    Loatheb rolled over at 80 but he's a massive DPS check at 60, probably the biggest one in the instance besides Kel'Thuzad. You get one beneficial spell per minute (buff, heals etc) rather than a window to heal every 20 seconds.

    Patchwerk uses 4 tanks at 60 instead of 2 in 10-man. It's a little trickier and a fairly big healing/tank check. It was definitely not much of a check at 80.

    Grobbulus is about the same. Easiest boss in the instance.

    Gluth has a much shorter enrage timer (5m30s) and being immune to taunt you have to tank swap without taunting for the mortal bite.

    Thaddius the polarity shifts kick in a bit faster. About the same fight though. He's actually tauntable unlike most Naxxramas bosses.

    Razuvious is pretty easy in either version. Mind controls can break from spell hit, mind.

    Gothik the Harvester is one of the hardest bosses at 60 and probably the easiest at 80. The tuning difference is pretty huge, you need to CC (polymorph/shackle) tons of stuff to get through at 60 and I don't think anyone ever used CC at 80. Also minor difference, everything on the dead side is immune to magic at 60. Importantly, you've got no misdirect or tricks of the trade and your aoe threat sucks too.

    Four Horsemen is a completely different fight. All of the Horsemen are mobile and the marks last 75 seconds instead of 25 seconds, four marks is nearly death for most players, five will definitely kill. The Horsemen also shield wall for 20 seconds at 50% and 25% HP so zerging one down is completely impossible. You'll need a very organized strategy and keep it up without error for 10+ minutes. I remember at 80 the only strategy was zerg Thane then half-assedly switch between the Horsemen after that.

    Not only is Sapphiron a lot more harshly tuned at 60, your tools to AoE heal are much less. You've got Prayer of Healing, basically. No circle of healing, no wild growth no smart heals etc.

    Example of the tuning difference: The damage of frost aura is identical in 10-man and 40-man Naxxramas, but the players are 20 levels higher in 10-man.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sapphiron_...s)#Phase_one_2 1200 every 2 seconds in 10-man.
    https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=28531/frost-aura 600 every 1 second in 40-man.


    Kel'Thuzad is quite different as well. Phase 1 lasts 5 minutes 10 seconds instead of 3 minutes, the 10-man version cuts out the last two minutes of more frequent spawns. Example of the phase 1 tuning difference, a skeleton exploding at 60 is 1750 unresistable shadow damage on the raid. At 80 it's 2500, but players have 20,000 HP instead of ~4k.

    Frost Blast has an extra tick at 60 (130% of max HP instead of 104%), chains infinitely instead of stopping after jumping to one player, and again you lack instant AoE healing tools if melee get hit. The biggest difference is the Chains of Kel'Thuzad which mind control 5 people, always target the main tank and wipe threat forcing a tank switch and dps stop since he's immune to taunt. IIRC the 10-man version didn't even have a mind control. The cooldown on all of Kel'Thuzad's spells is also notably shorter. Example frost blast CD at 60 is 30 seconds, at 80 is 45 seconds.

    At 60 the Guardians of Icecrown also gain blood tap stacks on switching targets and when a player dies meaning the encounter can rapidly spiral out of control. They also hit much harder but can be CC'd by shackle undead, though if you CC more than 3 Kel'Thuzad dispels the shackles.

    I've done both and while 40-man Naxxramas isn't nearly as hard as modern mythic raids it's massively more difficult than 10-man Naxxramas, you'll see that when it comes out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post

    I do think that the best guilds will clear bwl in the first raid, while not every guild will make that much progress in one run, I'm pretty certain that no-one is clearing aq40 or naxx in the first raid. I just don't see it being possible. I don't think there will be enough gear spread. enough time has passed to melt bwl but I think the latter half of aq40 will require more than just farming bwl to death. its going to require several raids through there until ppl have the pieces they need to finish it. likewise with naxx, you'll have to farm a certain amount of t3 before you're able to do kel'thuzad.
    Private server guilds have cleared Naxxramas the first day, though they've all farmed it before and massively abuse world buffs and consumables to do so. That's kind of the thing about classic raiding, if you really try-hard you can trivialize content with random buffs that increase your damage by 300-400% when all stacked together.

    Also here's another fun tuning difference.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Four_Horse...ady_Blaumeux_2 2750 shadow damage per second Void Zones on people with 20,000 HP.

    Void Zone ticking for 4600+ a second (outright one shot on non-tanks) in the level 60 version (video doing it in Burning Crusade at level 70).



    Void Zone actually hits twice as hard in the version for players 20 levels lower.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2020-01-07 at 05:54 AM.

  11. #351
    I do think naxx will be a bit harder, in wrath everyone had a lot more utility, healing was better overall there were many smart heals, you had palas and shamans on both factions. the parts of naxx that might be easy are things like the dance because everyone has done that so many times now it should be second nature, and maybe thaddius won't be so cancerous but it only takes 1 or 2 ppl to mess up.

    there are other parts to it that will be harder simply due to the lack of overall utility, gluth for example, as alliance you have mages and hunters to slow the mobs down, in wrath you had earthbind on both factions. in classic there are only 2 maybe 3 aoe heals in the game if you count tranquillity. the overall lack of aoe healing will make it that much harder and less forgiving. it should be much tighter in general mainly because no one has half the abilities they did in wrath. in tbc all healers gained some sort of aoe heal, palas had becons and in wrath I think they had their conal heal by then or they had the becon that basically turned single heals into aoe heals, druids got wild growth priests had prayer of mending and circle of healing if holy, etc etc.

    CC could still randomly break in wrath, I remember having to do the mind control in 25 man, there was no pillars you HAD TO bring at least 2 priests for the 25 man. and the mindcontrol could still break randomly.

    I don't think many guilds will clear naxx in the first week, I don't think it'll happen for aq40 either, but I do think that bwl will fall over on day 1. nefarian might still be a bit of a wipe fest without farming much t2. when your raid is still noticeably under geared. this being undergeared will be more noticeable for phase 5 and 6. skill is great and everything but there is still an underlying numerical factor, it really depends on how geared everyone is, or rather how lucky you've been gearing ppl up to that point. in a lot of cases its not uncommon to have to keep farming content for items that haven't dropped much. especially those items where there isn't many better or equal alternatives.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-01-07 at 06:20 AM.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    I do think naxx will be a bit harder, in wrath everyone had a lot more utility, healing was better overall there were many smart heals, you had palas and shamans on both factions. the parts of naxx that might be easy are things like the dance because everyone has done that so many times now it should be second nature, and maybe thaddius won't be so cancerous but it only takes 1 or 2 ppl to mess up.

    there are other parts to it that will be harder simply due to the lack of overall utility, gluth for example, as alliance you have mages and hunters to slow the mobs down, in wrath you had earthbind on both factions. in classic there are only 2 maybe 3 aoe heals in the game if you count tranquillity. the overall lack of aoe healing will make it that much harder and less forgiving. it should be much tighter in general mainly because no one has half the abilities they did in wrath. in tbc all healers gained some sort of aoe heal, palas had becons and in wrath I think they had their conal heal by then or they had the becon that basically turned single heals into aoe heals, druids got wild growth priests had prayer of mending and circle of healing if holy, etc etc.

    CC could still randomly break in wrath, I remember having to do the mind control in 25 man, there was no pillars you HAD TO bring at least 2 priests for the 25 man. and the mindcontrol could still break randomly.

    I don't think many guilds will clear naxx in the first week, I don't think it'll happen for aq40 either, but I do think that bwl will fall over on day 1. nefarian might still be a bit of a wipe fest without farming much t2. when your raid is still noticeably under geared. this being undergeared will be more noticeable for phase 5 and 6. skill is great and everything but there is still an underlying numerical factor, it really depends on how geared everyone is, or rather how lucky you've been gearing ppl up to that point. in a lot of cases its not uncommon to have to keep farming content for items that haven't dropped much. especially those items where there isn't many better or equal alternatives.
    Nothing in here is exaggerated or outright bullshit, so well done to you. However, one thing i will comment on is your mention of being "undergeared". DPS are already massively exceeding the Patchwork requirements with just MC and sub MC gear, so i really think that should just be completely taken out of the equation. However, overall, a pretty well thought out and articulate comment.

  13. #353
    I have heard that ppl are pulling insane dps already, I was thinking more about things like healer mana, and everyones overall stamina, or the ability for random ppl to take a hit and not die. i'm not sure if 4 horsemen can be done with less than 8 tanks, if it can that will be less painful but I think that will obviously be what stops that being cleared in the first week, for aq40, i'm unsure, perhaps the best guilds will manage to do c-thun with little to no t2.5. i'm thinking it'll take a couple of weeks farming upto him until ppl have enough gear to do it without needing to stack world buffs and flasks etc. I don't think my guild will do bwl in the first week. it'll probably take us a few raids i think. but ill be psyched if we manage to get to chromaggus in the first raid.

    ppl are doing good dps at the moment but, in glass cannon blue gear. that likely won't have enough stamina for the later raids. so you'll have to replace most of it for gear that actually has some health on it. the aoes are gunna start getting more frequent and having 3k hp isn't going leave you with much survivability. its the farming of the gear that takes the most time.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-01-07 at 07:46 AM.

  14. #354
    Pandaren Monk Beet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Who me?
    Posts
    1,940
    Yes we know. This has been talked about endlessly already.

    You can’t expect the game to be challenging when we have patch 1.12 talents, knowledge of all BIS, and better players. Granted I will say Naxx is going to be a wake up call to a lot of people. You won’t be pugging that with ease when it launches. It’s actually tuned for 1.12 talents unlike all these old raids.

    I always tell people to go look at patch 1.2 talents for example. Tell me how they think MC would be using those talents. When fury warriors weren’t a thing because they were awful. When Bloodthirst was a crappy ability that required you to kill something to use. Then look at the gear we had back then. Before 1.4 and 1.5 added all the new molten core gear to the game that was actually good.

    BWL will be a joke like MC. AQ40 will be funny seeing certain boss pulls for first timers though.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post

    Vanilla is filled with retard checks

    Lucifron, Vael, they go on. And will kill most of the guilds in this game
    What is the retard check on Lucifron? also the checks in Vanilla are not hard even for the most retarded players and the 40 man raid size means it's rare they even have to deal with it.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Nothing in here is exaggerated or outright bullshit, so well done to you. However, one thing i will comment on is your mention of being "undergeared". DPS are already massively exceeding the Patchwork requirements with just MC and sub MC gear, so i really think that should just be completely taken out of the equation. However, overall, a pretty well thought out and articulate comment.
    To be fair Patchwerk's dps requirement is fairly lenient and not why the boss was once considered difficult. First you needed four tanks with above 9,000 HP because the max hateful strike is about 8,900 and then you needed healers to not go OOM over the fight duration.

    Loatheb was the DPS wall in Naxxramas, probably won't be nearly as bad this time around with the knowledge people have of course.

    Also, I'm in a fairly average classic guild, two hour MC clears, and most of us aren't hitting the Patchwerk dps requirement on say, Ragnaros. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...pe=damage-done I think the numbers vastly exceeding it come from stacking world buffs and full elixirs/flasks which most guilds aren't doing.

    It's very expensive and tedious to do that weekly.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2020-01-07 at 07:21 AM.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Gluth has a much shorter enrage timer (5m30s) and being immune to taunt you have to tank swap without taunting for the mortal bite.
    Gluth has 1,466,000 hitpoints. Magmadar has 826,000. We have two more raid tiers of gear before we're in Naxx.

    Your jaw is going to drop when you see just how easy Naxx is going to be.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Factsbeforefeelings View Post
    Gluth has 1,466,000 hitpoints. Magmadar has 826,000. We have two more raid tiers of gear before we're in Naxx.

    Your jaw is going to drop when you see just how easy Naxx is going to be.
    I've got no illusions, I've seen it on private servers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_TXY1OZmc. This PS kill for example is about four minutes, since ~8 of the DPS are devoted to kiting. Kronos has a slight buff to boss hp, so a little faster on classic. World buffed try-hards will probably push it down to 2 minutes or less.

    Nothing I said about Gluth is untrue. I'll stand by the statement the instance will be much harder than Naxxramas 10-man. Of course Naxxramas 10-man was Molten Core level difficulty so.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2020-01-07 at 03:07 PM.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    One of the most popular tanking specs atm for warriors is dual daggers, wtf are you talking about?
    Because an average Pug tank has Corehound tooth, Perditions Blade and Aged Corehound leather gloves?
    Like seriously? Your average pug leader won't even give this to a tank over a rogue and one rogue will most certainly roll need on those items.

    Unless you are somehow screwing with the loot or are extremely lucky with /roll, these items don't appear in your bags even after multiple runs.
    Even then, most pugs are filled with "wear a shield!" healers, their reaction can't compensate two crushing blows in a row, which will kill any non wearing shield tank that doesn't run consumables.

    You can't apply strats that are being used by topend guilds and simply say "pugs do that, too!", they're not.
    I'm not even surprised whenever i hear that pugs give Striker's Mark to a Hunter over a Rogue / Warrior.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    And it doesnt "mess with" the hit chance, they ignore the DW hit penalty if HS is queued.
    Yeah, that's messing around with the hit chance.
    Because that bug moves Heroic Strike up in your priority quite a lot, it's not your "press when you can dump rage" button, it's now "queue it all the time" button.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Its perfectly normal to clear MC in well under 90 minutes with a PuG, and i cannot understand why you are not aware of this.
    Because it doesn't line up with my experience that i had with MC pugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    HAHAHHA, did you just string the words together "screwing up you ROTATION is difficult" when the majority of dps specs literally press 1 button almost the entire fight, with SOME pressing a second occasionally?
    ...yes?
    I mean, did you read that sentence correctly? Did you understand its meaning?

    Let me rephrase it for you:
    Playing your rotation incorrectly in Vanilla is actually difficult (because they are so simple).

    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Lol. Almost all my ony kills have had people die to deep breath and ony running around killing people because if aggro. Oh no, we have 15 people left. Still no wipes.
    And now?
    At best, it's your word against mine, been there and still wiped multiple times.

    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Half the raid dead, 16 people left, 75% left on the boss. No wipe.
    If the remaining 16 people know how to play, obviously.
    But at this point, the boss takes a bit to kill and (near) wipe recoveries in Vanilla cost a shit ton of your time, which kinda brings the time aspect again into question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Equoowe View Post
    What is the retard check on Lucifron? also the checks in Vanilla are not hard even for the most retarded players and the 40 man raid size means it's rare they even have to deal with it.
    Basically, if you cannot speedkill the boss, you need to play with some strategy, if you ignore that, you'll probably wipe.

    The problem is that Impending doom hits your entire raid for ~2k Shadow damage every ~15-20sec (with a 10sec dispel window), because the debuff is applied to everyone, dispelling it on the entire raid is not an option.
    Next to that, Lucifrons curse increases cost of anything by 100%, if your Mages / Druids aren't dispelling quickly (or at all) your dps tanks hard because no one can use abilities and Healers are oom within less than a minute because Impending doom deals heavy raid damage and their mana cost is increased by 100%.

    The "proper" strat is to Tank Lucifron LoS to the raid (as both Impending doom and Curse aren't applied to the raid then) while killing those adds.

    It's the basic thing, do you have the dps? Congratz you can ignore mechanics, you can just burn the boss before your healers are oom.
    Do you not have the dps? Play correctly or wipe.

    And yeah, i've wiped on Lucifron with a pug, because raidleader thought killing those adds while Lucifron stands next to them is the "correct" strat for a raid that invites people below 60.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-01-07 at 04:41 PM.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Basically, if you cannot speedkill the boss, you need to play with some strategy, if you ignore that, you'll probably wipe.

    The problem is that Impending doom hits your entire raid for ~2k Shadow damage every ~15-20sec (with a 10sec dispel window), because the debuff is applied to everyone, dispelling it on the entire raid is not an option.
    Next to that, Lucifrons curse increases cost of anything by 100%, if your Mages / Druids aren't dispelling quickly (or at all) your dps tanks hard because no one can use abilities and Healers are oom within less than a minute because Impending doom deals heavy raid damage and their mana cost is increased by 100%.

    The "proper" strat is to Tank Lucifron LoS to the raid (as both Impending doom and Curse aren't applied to the raid then) while killing those adds.

    It's the basic thing, do you have the dps? Congratz you can ignore mechanics, you can just burn the boss before your healers are oom.
    Do you not have the dps? Play correctly or wipe.

    And yeah, i've wiped on Lucifron with a pug, because raidleader thought killing those adds while Lucifron stands next to them is the "correct" strat for a raid that invites people below 60.
    The real bigbrain move is for the entire raid to pop a restorative pot and just kill lucifron without the hassle.

    That said, the people you're arguing with are also the same people who think they are going to waltz into naxx and ezmode 1shot it because, and I quote "done KJ on LFR", i'm not even gonna be happy or gloat once aq rolls around and their guild dies, it's mostly sad, I want people to enjoy this game.
    Last edited by OriginalName; 2020-01-07 at 04:51 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •