BWL/AQ/Naxx will be demolished with ease.

[Heathy]

I do think naxx will be a bit harder, in wrath everyone had a lot more utility, healing was better overall there were many smart heals, you had palas and shamans on both factions. the parts of naxx that might be easy are things like the dance because everyone has done that so many times now it should be second nature, and maybe thaddius won't be so cancerous but it only takes 1 or 2 ppl to mess up.

there are other parts to it that will be harder simply due to the lack of overall utility, gluth for example, as alliance you have mages and hunters to slow the mobs down, in wrath you had earthbind on both factions. in classic there are only 2 maybe 3 aoe heals in the game if you count tranquillity. the overall lack of aoe healing will make it that much harder and less forgiving. it should be much tighter in general mainly because no one has half the abilities they did in wrath. in tbc all healers gained some sort of aoe heal, palas had becons and in wrath I think they had their conal heal by then or they had the becon that basically turned single heals into aoe heals, druids got wild growth priests had prayer of mending and circle of healing if holy, etc etc.

CC could still randomly break in wrath, I remember having to do the mind control in 25 man, there was no pillars you HAD TO bring at least 2 priests for the 25 man. and the mindcontrol could still break randomly.

I don't think many guilds will clear naxx in the first week, I don't think it'll happen for aq40 either, but I do think that bwl will fall over on day 1. nefarian might still be a bit of a wipe fest without farming much t2. when your raid is still noticeably under geared. this being undergeared will be more noticeable for phase 5 and 6. skill is great and everything but there is still an underlying numerical factor, it really depends on how geared everyone is, or rather how lucky you've been gearing ppl up to that point. in a lot of cases its not uncommon to have to keep farming content for items that haven't dropped much. especially those items where there isn't many better or equal alternatives.

[arkanon]

I do think naxx will be a bit harder, in wrath everyone had a lot more utility, healing was better overall there were many smart heals, you had palas and shamans on both factions. the parts of naxx that might be easy are things like the dance because everyone has done that so many times now it should be second nature, and maybe thaddius won't be so cancerous but it only takes 1 or 2 ppl to mess up.

there are other parts to it that will be harder simply due to the lack of overall utility, gluth for example, as alliance you have mages and hunters to slow the mobs down, in wrath you had earthbind on both factions. in classic there are only 2 maybe 3 aoe heals in the game if you count tranquillity. the overall lack of aoe healing will make it that much harder and less forgiving. it should be much tighter in general mainly because no one has half the abilities they did in wrath. in tbc all healers gained some sort of aoe heal, palas had becons and in wrath I think they had their conal heal by then or they had the becon that basically turned single heals into aoe heals, druids got wild growth priests had prayer of mending and circle of healing if holy, etc etc.

CC could still randomly break in wrath, I remember having to do the mind control in 25 man, there was no pillars you HAD TO bring at least 2 priests for the 25 man. and the mindcontrol could still break randomly.

I don't think many guilds will clear naxx in the first week, I don't think it'll happen for aq40 either, but I do think that bwl will fall over on day 1. nefarian might still be a bit of a wipe fest without farming much t2. when your raid is still noticeably under geared. this being undergeared will be more noticeable for phase 5 and 6. skill is great and everything but there is still an underlying numerical factor, it really depends on how geared everyone is, or rather how lucky you've been gearing ppl up to that point. in a lot of cases its not uncommon to have to keep farming content for items that haven't dropped much. especially those items where there isn't many better or equal alternatives.

Nothing in here is exaggerated or outright bullshit, so well done to you. However, one thing i will comment on is your mention of being "undergeared". DPS are already massively exceeding the Patchwork requirements with just MC and sub MC gear, so i really think that should just be completely taken out of the equation. However, overall, a pretty well thought out and articulate comment.

[Heathy]

I have heard that ppl are pulling insane dps already, I was thinking more about things like healer mana, and everyones overall stamina, or the ability for random ppl to take a hit and not die. i'm not sure if 4 horsemen can be done with less than 8 tanks, if it can that will be less painful but I think that will obviously be what stops that being cleared in the first week, for aq40, i'm unsure, perhaps the best guilds will manage to do c-thun with little to no t2.5. i'm thinking it'll take a couple of weeks farming upto him until ppl have enough gear to do it without needing to stack world buffs and flasks etc. I don't think my guild will do bwl in the first week. it'll probably take us a few raids i think. but ill be psyched if we manage to get to chromaggus in the first raid.

ppl are doing good dps at the moment but, in glass cannon blue gear. that likely won't have enough stamina for the later raids. so you'll have to replace most of it for gear that actually has some health on it. the aoes are gunna start getting more frequent and having 3k hp isn't going leave you with much survivability. its the farming of the gear that takes the most time.

[Beet]

Yes we know. This has been talked about endlessly already.

You can’t expect the game to be challenging when we have patch 1.12 talents, knowledge of all BIS, and better players. Granted I will say Naxx is going to be a wake up call to a lot of people. You won’t be pugging that with ease when it launches. It’s actually tuned for 1.12 talents unlike all these old raids.

I always tell people to go look at patch 1.2 talents for example. Tell me how they think MC would be using those talents. When fury warriors weren’t a thing because they were awful. When Bloodthirst was a crappy ability that required you to kill something to use. Then look at the gear we had back then. Before 1.4 and 1.5 added all the new molten core gear to the game that was actually good.

BWL will be a joke like MC. AQ40 will be funny seeing certain boss pulls for first timers though.

[Equoowe]

Vanilla is filled with retard checks

Lucifron, Vael, they go on. And will kill most of the guilds in this game

What is the retard check on Lucifron? also the checks in Vanilla are not hard even for the most retarded players and the 40 man raid size means it's rare they even have to deal with it.

[Nitros14]

Nothing in here is exaggerated or outright bullshit, so well done to you. However, one thing i will comment on is your mention of being "undergeared". DPS are already massively exceeding the Patchwork requirements with just MC and sub MC gear, so i really think that should just be completely taken out of the equation. However, overall, a pretty well thought out and articulate comment.

To be fair Patchwerk's dps requirement is fairly lenient and not why the boss was once considered difficult. First you needed four tanks with above 9,000 HP because the max hateful strike is about 8,900 and then you needed healers to not go OOM over the fight duration.

Loatheb was the DPS wall in Naxxramas, probably won't be nearly as bad this time around with the knowledge people have of course.

Also, I'm in a fairly average classic guild, two hour MC clears, and most of us aren't hitting the Patchwerk dps requirement on say, Ragnaros. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...pe=damage-done I think the numbers vastly exceeding it come from stacking world buffs and full elixirs/flasks which most guilds aren't doing.

It's very expensive and tedious to do that weekly.

[Master Factician]

Gluth has a much shorter enrage timer (5m30s) and being immune to taunt you have to tank swap without taunting for the mortal bite.

Gluth has 1,466,000 hitpoints. Magmadar has 826,000. We have two more raid tiers of gear before we're in Naxx.

Your jaw is going to drop when you see just how easy Naxx is going to be.

[Nitros14]

Gluth has 1,466,000 hitpoints. Magmadar has 826,000. We have two more raid tiers of gear before we're in Naxx.

Your jaw is going to drop when you see just how easy Naxx is going to be.

I've got no illusions, I've seen it on private servers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_TXY1OZmc. This PS kill for example is about four minutes, since ~8 of the DPS are devoted to kiting. Kronos has a slight buff to boss hp, so a little faster on classic. World buffed try-hards will probably push it down to 2 minutes or less.

Nothing I said about Gluth is untrue. I'll stand by the statement the instance will be much harder than Naxxramas 10-man. Of course Naxxramas 10-man was Molten Core level difficulty so.

[Kralljin]

One of the most popular tanking specs atm for warriors is dual daggers, wtf are you talking about?

Because an average Pug tank has Corehound tooth, Perditions Blade and Aged Corehound leather gloves?
Like seriously? Your average pug leader won't even give this to a tank over a rogue and one rogue will most certainly roll need on those items.

Unless you are somehow screwing with the loot or are extremely lucky with /roll, these items don't appear in your bags even after multiple runs.
Even then, most pugs are filled with "wear a shield!" healers, their reaction can't compensate two crushing blows in a row, which will kill any non wearing shield tank that doesn't run consumables.

You can't apply strats that are being used by topend guilds and simply say "pugs do that, too!", they're not.
I'm not even surprised whenever i hear that pugs give Striker's Mark to a Hunter over a Rogue / Warrior.

And it doesnt "mess with" the hit chance, they ignore the DW hit penalty if HS is queued.

Yeah, that's messing around with the hit chance.
Because that bug moves Heroic Strike up in your priority quite a lot, it's not your "press when you can dump rage" button, it's now "queue it all the time" button.

Its perfectly normal to clear MC in well under 90 minutes with a PuG, and i cannot understand why you are not aware of this.

Because it doesn't line up with my experience that i had with MC pugs.

HAHAHHA, did you just string the words together "screwing up you ROTATION is difficult" when the majority of dps specs literally press 1 button almost the entire fight, with SOME pressing a second occasionally?

...yes?
I mean, did you read that sentence correctly? Did you understand its meaning?

Let me rephrase it for you:
Playing your rotation incorrectly in Vanilla is actually difficult (because they are so simple).

Lol. Almost all my ony kills have had people die to deep breath and ony running around killing people because if aggro. Oh no, we have 15 people left. Still no wipes.

And now?
At best, it's your word against mine, been there and still wiped multiple times.

Half the raid dead, 16 people left, 75% left on the boss. No wipe.

If the remaining 16 people know how to play, obviously.
But at this point, the boss takes a bit to kill and (near) wipe recoveries in Vanilla cost a shit ton of your time, which kinda brings the time aspect again into question.

What is the retard check on Lucifron? also the checks in Vanilla are not hard even for the most retarded players and the 40 man raid size means it's rare they even have to deal with it.

Basically, if you cannot speedkill the boss, you need to play with some strategy, if you ignore that, you'll probably wipe.

The problem is that Impending doom hits your entire raid for ~2k Shadow damage every ~15-20sec (with a 10sec dispel window), because the debuff is applied to everyone, dispelling it on the entire raid is not an option.
Next to that, Lucifrons curse increases cost of anything by 100%, if your Mages / Druids aren't dispelling quickly (or at all) your dps tanks hard because no one can use abilities and Healers are oom within less than a minute because Impending doom deals heavy raid damage and their mana cost is increased by 100%.

The "proper" strat is to Tank Lucifron LoS to the raid (as both Impending doom and Curse aren't applied to the raid then) while killing those adds.

It's the basic thing, do you have the dps? Congratz you can ignore mechanics, you can just burn the boss before your healers are oom.
Do you not have the dps? Play correctly or wipe.

And yeah, i've wiped on Lucifron with a pug, because raidleader thought killing those adds while Lucifron stands next to them is the "correct" strat for a raid that invites people below 60.

[OriginalName]

Basically, if you cannot speedkill the boss, you need to play with some strategy, if you ignore that, you'll probably wipe.

The problem is that Impending doom hits your entire raid for ~2k Shadow damage every ~15-20sec (with a 10sec dispel window), because the debuff is applied to everyone, dispelling it on the entire raid is not an option.
Next to that, Lucifrons curse increases cost of anything by 100%, if your Mages / Druids aren't dispelling quickly (or at all) your dps tanks hard because no one can use abilities and Healers are oom within less than a minute because Impending doom deals heavy raid damage and their mana cost is increased by 100%.

The "proper" strat is to Tank Lucifron LoS to the raid (as both Impending doom and Curse aren't applied to the raid then) while killing those adds.

It's the basic thing, do you have the dps? Congratz you can ignore mechanics, you can just burn the boss before your healers are oom.
Do you not have the dps? Play correctly or wipe.

And yeah, i've wiped on Lucifron with a pug, because raidleader thought killing those adds while Lucifron stands next to them is the "correct" strat for a raid that invites people below 60.

The real bigbrain move is for the entire raid to pop a restorative pot and just kill lucifron without the hassle.

That said, the people you're arguing with are also the same people who think they are going to waltz into naxx and ezmode 1shot it because, and I quote "done KJ on LFR", i'm not even gonna be happy or gloat once aq rolls around and their guild dies, it's mostly sad, I want people to enjoy this game.

[Mukind]

What is the retard check on Lucifron? also the checks in Vanilla are not hard even for the most retarded players and the 40 man raid size means it's rare they even have to deal with it.

I meant geddon

I guess he sorta does with having to dispel MC...But yea meant geddon

[Kralljin]

That said, the people you're arguing with are also the same people who think they are going to waltz into naxx and ezmode 1shot it because, and I quote "done KJ on LFR", i'm not even gonna be happy or gloat once aq rolls around and their guild dies, it's mostly sad, I want people to enjoy this game.

The irony here is that i've not even claimed classic is "difficult".

But it's the "you're with us or against us" logic, you if don't kindly nod your head to the "classic is super easy sub lfr difficulty" mantra, they instantly turn on you "so you think classic is hard, eh?!".

Fuck me, retail has four difficulties, yet in their head only "super easy" and "super hard" exists, if it's not the former, then it must be latter.

[Heathy]

I guess the difference is really in the preparation and organization, the modern game takes away pretty much all logistical challenge, this happened slowly through things like not needing so many consumables, class homogenisation and other things. classic is difficult to progress through due to the commitment of sticking with it for multiple years you can't really just join in at any point and pug to the end, if you want to see the end you will 100% have to join a guild and progress the whole way with them, if you are lucky and manage to get recruited to replace someone and geared up through mc and bwl thats niche, its still going to take months to get all the bits of gear you need to move forward. through thick and thin, through ppl leaving the guild and weeks of shit shows where no one brings their A game. in the modern game you don't need to necessarily have a dedicated guild and raid leaders and class leaders, they took away nearly all of that logistics and placed it on the individual. you don't have to worry about multiple sets of gear and things of that nature. mostly classic is still time consuming more than it is difficult, the mechanical difficulty was always in the execution and logistics, not really in the mechanical depth. I always used to assume that if the pull went ok, then the boss would likely die, back in the old days the pull was pretty much everything, at least for molten core, you could tell if things were going to go shit on the pull, if the pull went ok, the boss probably died. I would say naxx and tbc is where the mechanical difficulty starts to match the logistical difficulty. eventually it did reverse and logistical difficulty has almost entirely been replaced by mechanical difficulty.

its maintaining enthusiasm to keep going at least for me this time around, I get bored quite easily and if i didn't still need a bit more AV rep i would likely not log in until the next raid. whether something is easy or hard isn't a big deal, the real fun is simply progressing with a guild made up of random dudes who all want the same thing as you, making friends, helping them with their goals, having them help you in return. but not many guilds are full of pros, a lot of guilds carry ppl and that is fine too there was a more social aspect to classic wow that has dwindled as the game got faster paced. there is less time to just enjoy things and more focus on getting something done so you can move onto something else.

I like both aspects of the game, I like the modern game's ease of accessibility, if you don't play all the time, being able to jump in and make meaningful progress alone is likely what has kept the game alive this long, but I do also like the gatekeeping nature of classic where those who put in the effort stand out to some degree. you can tell who is playing casually and who isn't. although it sucks for those ppl who don't have much social aptitude.

[drbatman]

BWL will be harder than Mythic Nylotha, anybody with skill knows this.

[arkanon]

I guess the difference is really in the preparation and organization, the modern game takes away pretty much all logistical challenge, this happened slowly through things like not needing so many consumables, class homogenisation and other things. classic is difficult to progress through due to the commitment of sticking with it for multiple years you can't really just join in at any point and pug to the end, if you want to see the end you will 100% have to join a guild and progress the whole way with them, if you are lucky and manage to get recruited to replace someone and geared up through mc and bwl thats niche, its still going to take months to get all the bits of gear you need to move forward. through thick and thin, through ppl leaving the guild and weeks of shit shows where no one brings their A game. in the modern game you don't need to necessarily have a dedicated guild and raid leaders and class leaders, they took away nearly all of that logistics and placed it on the individual. you don't have to worry about multiple sets of gear and things of that nature. mostly classic is still time consuming more than it is difficult, the mechanical difficulty was always in the execution and logistics, not really in the mechanical depth. I always used to assume that if the pull went ok, then the boss would likely die, back in the old days the pull was pretty much everything, at least for molten core, you could tell if things were going to go shit on the pull, if the pull went ok, the boss probably died. I would say naxx and tbc is where the mechanical difficulty starts to match the logistical difficulty. eventually it did reverse and logistical difficulty has almost entirely been replaced by mechanical difficulty.

its maintaining enthusiasm to keep going at least for me this time around, I get bored quite easily and if i didn't still need a bit more AV rep i would likely not log in until the next raid. whether something is easy or hard isn't a big deal, the real fun is simply progressing with a guild made up of random dudes who all want the same thing as you, making friends, helping them with their goals, having them help you in return. but not many guilds are full of pros, a lot of guilds carry ppl and that is fine too there was a more social aspect to classic wow that has dwindled as the game got faster paced. there is less time to just enjoy things and more focus on getting something done so you can move onto something else.

I like both aspects of the game, I like the modern game's ease of accessibility, if you don't play all the time, being able to jump in and make meaningful progress alone is likely what has kept the game alive this long, but I do also like the gatekeeping nature of classic where those who put in the effort stand out to some degree. you can tell who is playing casually and who isn't. although it sucks for those ppl who don't have much social aptitude.

The problem with nearly everything you said is it's based on the assumption that retail raiders don't struggle with even higher demands. This is incorrect. Multiple sets? Boohoo. Mythic raiders are typically required to have multiple max level toons with bis gear, ready to be played at the highest possible level. Farming the neck took far more commitment than any farming in classic ever will, and the same went for artifact weapons.

I agree that the only part of classic that anyone could ever call "difficult" is the time commitment, however this has been shown to be almost non-existent this time around, and more importantly, retails time commitment is still substantially higher anyway.

[munkeyinorbit]

The real bigbrain move is for the entire raid to pop a restorative pot and just kill lucifron without the hassle.

That said, the people you're arguing with are also the same people who think they are going to waltz into naxx and ezmode 1shot it because, and I quote "done KJ on LFR", i'm not even gonna be happy or gloat once aq rolls around and their guild dies, it's mostly sad, I want people to enjoy this game.

Who said they were going to ez mode one shot naxx? I am the person you are referring to and I never said that. I said that naxx will be easier than LFR KJ and it will be. There is nothing in Naxx I haven't seen and the mechanics are very easy compared to LFR. It doesn't even have to be KJ. This bullshit argument of "people are going to get a shock when they get to X raid" is falling apart everytime you move the goalposts. Some guy said it's got more to do with how and mana then it has to do with output and that's prob right but the skill it takes is far below what is needed for lfr now adays. What a joke.

[Trajer]

I've got no illusions, I've seen it on private servers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_TXY1OZmc. This PS kill for example is about four minutes, since ~8 of the DPS are devoted to kiting. Kronos has a slight buff to boss hp, so a little faster on classic. World buffed try-hards will probably push it down to 2 minutes or less.

Nothing I said about Gluth is untrue. I'll stand by the statement the instance will be much harder than Naxxramas 10-man. Of course Naxxramas 10-man was Molten Core level difficulty so.

The DPS in that video is super low - some under 200. With an AOE phase DPS should be inflated, if anything.

[Heathy]

The problem with nearly everything you said is it's based on the assumption that retail raiders don't struggle with even higher demands. This is incorrect. Multiple sets? Boohoo. Mythic raiders are typically required to have multiple max level toons with bis gear, ready to be played at the highest possible level. Farming the neck took far more commitment than any farming in classic ever will, and the same went for artifact weapons.

I agree that the only part of classic that anyone could ever call "difficult" is the time commitment, however this has been shown to be almost non-existent this time around, and more importantly, retails time commitment is still substantially higher anyway.

this is because they keep piling on new things to keep you busy, I logged into bfa not that long ago, i did some dailies got my ilvl upto the point that i could do the LFR, used that LFR gear to join normal pugs and went from being behind by a significant way (I missed the whole of drazalor), to viable and seeing current content, it took me a couple of weeks maybe, without needing to spend months gathering gear at 1 item per week. the difference is there is no end to how much you can grind and farm in retail, while this is very limited in classic, you are limited by raid lockouts, while this aspect of retail doesn't have the same level of chances, you can make significant progress in a single week, much much much more than what is possible in classic unless every boss drops gear for your class and your raid funnels all of it to you. that would be the only way a single person can make similar progress as to what is possible in retail.

hell i got a normal version of azshara's staff from the timewalking weekly. :/ its not the best version of that weapon but, its not exactly that bad either. there are soo many ways to get gear, even if a lot of it is down to rng. you can tunnel vision much more in retail and push push progress without needing 39 other ppl to be online. but you still only actually NEED a certain amount of gear, you don't ofc need to be ilvl capped to start raiding heroic. you just need to be able to perform well enough. i usually go with the -10ilvl from whatever it is you are doing. its just much easier to keep grinding for the random chance that something might drop with a high titanforge, this makes it nearly endless (like farming perfect rolled gear in diablo). but you don't have to spend all that time farming gear endlessly until something useful drops you do what you need to do to be viable for the difficulty you are progressing through, and the rest comes from progression itself. same as classic.

in classic you are waiting pretty much all the time for raid lockouts to reset for more progress to be made. dungeons lose their charm once you've got your t1, the only reason ill run another dungeon now is to boost alts or to get attuned to bwl, after that ill likely never run ubrs again. while the dungeons in retail stay relevant because of M+ and can be ran consistently if you have the keystones. for gear that is on par with the content you are progressing through. there is no day in retail where you are standing around with zero ways to progress because you are saved to everything. this is not the same for classic, I spend most of my time waiting for the next raid day. right now its time consuming in the sense that progress is made every 7th day, there are 6 days in the week right now where nothing happens. very little if any useful gear is gained, you can farm gold and consumables but thats it, all that does is help you progress it doesn't really feel like progress in the same way it is in retail. like the time spent is not equal to the gear gained.

i'm hoping this will improve as time goes on, zg isn't that special but ill be happy to have that to run once its out and have some sort of content that resets more frequently to break up the gaps between 40 mans. it feels super slow right now. progress wise. I logged in like 4 times throughout December as they were the only days that progress could be made. I skipped one MC run that was the sunday before xmas because, it was xmas i didn't wanna raid that day. but i have all my t1, i have my quel'serrar, i got ironfoe at 55 and i use that to dps with. I don't really need much gear now, I could use the strikers mark, for the hit, cape of raggy for the stamina, and maybe the acuria band, although i know the rogues will hate me, I need hit too, but that is all i need currently, lacking maybe 2-3% hit, if i can get that ring and bow ill be at 8% and can't make any more progress without bwl. then for me it'll be the same thing again, 1 raid a week where progress can be made until phase 4.

I don't think many ppl care much about mythic raiders apart from mythic raiders. I have nothing against it, I just think there is a point where something becomes too tuned. most of these mythic encounters just seem to be extremely punishing for no other reason than to be that way. the tuning is just too tight for me to care much about it. I like heroic because for me its hard enough without being tuned to the point that you will likely wipe 100s of times until the stars align and everyone presses the exact keys in the exact order they had to. I don't need shit like that to have a game be enjoyable. I like a challenge, but i'm not interested in over tuned encounters. it comes down to the time requirement, finding ppl that aren't shit heel elitists to run that stuff without their egos cutting your IQ in half. these guilds tend to be full of ppl who are full of themselves and I don't need that shit.

I did some raiding in legion and we all kinda stopped at heroic kil'jaeden, we had an odd number of players and legion was fun but it was really punishing to raid with like 11-13 ppl, guldan was absolutely cancerous with that many ppl because of all the mechanics and being spread super thin. but I carried on and pugged about 7 bosses in heroic antorus, in the first week, this is the sort of progress that just doesn't always happen (in classic you aren't instantly recruited into new guilds if your guild folds or stops raiding, there would be a progress lull for some time before you would be able to get right back into progressing. it would be difficult to leave one guild and then be raiding with another guild the very next week). its not difficult in the logistical sense, its difficult in the mechanical sense, you don't need a guild to move forward in retail but you will need a guild to move past t1 in classic. simply because no pug is going to have the co-ordination to down bosses in bwl and beyond and no pug is going to be able to get players with gear they can only get by being in a guild. you aren't going to get 40 ppl clad in t1 unless they left their guilds. I can't really imagine how long it would take to gear up an alt running mc pugs. when everyone is rolling on everything and every week you have new dudes wanting the same loots as you, and you never get to a point that your raid is geared and ppl pass on loot. because its always a fresh bunch of alts needing loot.

then you have the shit like thunderfury, I have one binding, the other binding might never drop but that single binding is going to make molten core always worth clearing. keeping you farming content you don't really need except for one or two items. then you have the dudes that stop playing and you needing to gear up new recruits because, there is no way to farm t1 solo. this shit can be done solo in retail, you don't need your whole guild to do raids so you can be viable you can just become viable yourself. on your own time.

[Nitros14]

The DPS in that video is super low - some under 200. With an AOE phase DPS should be inflated, if anything.

That damage meter is looking at damage only to Zombies. If their dps was actually that low they couldn't have killed Patchwerk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUvNLIBVm30 Same guild on Patchwerk all around 600.

[Trajer]

That damage meter is looking at damage only to Zombies. If their dps was actually that low they couldn't have killed Patchwerk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUvNLIBVm30 Same guild on Patchwerk all around 600.

Oh, that makes sense then. I didn't get a good look.