1. #2521
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    The contractor killed was essentially a civilian translator, a naturalized American given US citizenship after he and his wife were granted refugee status from Iraq. You should send his wife and kids a letter expressing just how worthless you think his life was, I am sure they would appreciate it, you disgusting person.
    Cool, can I also ask them if the lives all of the innocent Iraqis caught in the crossfire between the US and Iran make up for their loss?

    Don't try to pretend there's any moral high ground to be had here.
    Elizabeth Warren is the neighbor in the horror movie who drives by the haunted house and is like “hey guys seems bad in there want to come with me?” and America is the family that’s like “nah it’s probably not that bad there were only chainsaw noises in the night that one time!”

  2. #2522
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    The dude worked for Sulemani, and was in the same car when they both died. If one gave the ok they both did. And they both died together, so I don't get your point.

    Trump is an idiot, that isn't news. There is no reason to defend Sulemani though, just be glad that a guy that has had it coming for decades finally got his just rewards. He got to be a martyr, we avenged several hundred (and possibly a few thousand) of our dead.

    This doesn't change that it is normal to be extremely concerned that Trump is a kid that is poking an ant hill without any idea how it works, or what the consequences could be. I am just saying you don't need to defend that particular ant. He was an asshole.
    I'm not really trying to defend the person. He was making a claim without proof to justify Trump's escalation.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.

  3. #2523
    @DocSavageFan

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4...brain-injuries

    Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) said Trump “minimized” the injuries the troops suffered after the Pentagon announced that dozens of U.S. troops sustained traumatic brain injuries (TBI). Trump had referred to the injuries as “headaches" and "not very serious" earlier in the week.

    “In light of today's announcement from the defense department that 34 U.S. service members suffered traumatic brain injuries as a result of Iran's retaliatory strike and President Trump's remarks which minimized these troops’ injuries, the Veterans of Foreign Wars cannot stand idle on this matter,” VFW National Commander William “Doc” Schmitz said in a statement.

    TBI is a serious injury and one that cannot be taken lightly. TBI is known to cause depression, memory loss, severe headaches, dizziness and fatigue — all injuries that come with both short- and long-term effects. The VFW expects an apology from the president to our service men and women for his misguided remarks.
    I'm fine having the VFW in my corner on this debate.

  4. #2524
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Because Trump is a racist and turned his back on other Iraqis who aided the US military, that means I shouldn't care about an Iraqi-American who was murdered by Iran?

    What?
    You shouldn't use his death as a means of defense for Trump to assassinate a nation's general. This wasn't some "presidential" act to show his love and resolve for the US military, but it's his administration's failing around because we are isolated due to him pulling us out of the JCPOA.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  5. #2525
    Legendary! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    @DocSavageFan

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4...brain-injuries

    I'm fine having the VFW in my corner on this debate.
    If Trump is going to address this in any way, it's going to be him throwing someone under the bus. Fat chance he will admit any kind of fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  6. #2526
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    If Trump is going to address this in any way, it's going to be him throwing someone under the bus. Fat chance he will admit any kind of fault.
    I'm sure he'll apologise right after Chicago and San Antonio get paid for his rally security fees.
    Elizabeth Warren is the neighbor in the horror movie who drives by the haunted house and is like “hey guys seems bad in there want to come with me?” and America is the family that’s like “nah it’s probably not that bad there were only chainsaw noises in the night that one time!”

  7. #2527
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    If Trump is going to address this in any way, it's going to be him throwing someone under the bus. Fat chance he will admit any kind of fault.
    "I wanted to hit them back but they would let me. Boy, I would have hit them hard. You know it *point out into the crowd, leans back and sniffs the air*. BUT THEY WOULDN'T LET ME- they wouldn't let me folks. I would have hit Iran so hard, and we were ready to go, I didn't want to disappoint Nancy though. Should I have done it? Yeah I should have done *throws hands up* but they wouldn't let me do it. "

    Crowd goes wild. Trump smirks and holds his hands out like this \-_-/

  8. #2528
    Hey guys remember how couple of weeks ago we all shat out pants when WW3 started? Fun times.

  9. #2529
    Quote Originally Posted by DocSavageFan View Post
    Let's be honest here. Even if Trump acknowledged that the injuries were more severe than originally thought, I'm quite sure that you would find something about it that would displease you.
    So now you're whining about a hypothetical future comment Edge "might" make?

    Jesus, that's pathetic. Well I guess you guys really just have nothing at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  10. #2530
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    So now you're whining about a hypothetical future comment Edge "might" make?

    Jesus, that's pathetic. Well I guess you guys really just have nothing at this point.
    Wow you sure would look silly if instead the roles were reversed and you were the one saying dumb things, imagine that, smart guy!
    /s

  11. #2531
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Hey guys remember how couple of weeks ago we all shat out pants when WW3 started? Fun times.
    I remember The Trump administration claiming no US casualties....
    (it's now up to 34) luckily 14 of which are back on duty from mild concussion
    https://www.vox.com/world/2020/1/24/...entagon-strike

    Oh, also Trump is mocking TBI sufferers as not a real combat injury in a further effort to minimize the incident.
    Last edited by ohtlmtlm; 2020-01-25 at 10:42 PM.

  12. #2532
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    This is a very short term view on Sulemani, and I really don't understand this line of logic. If a member of another government straight up murders a US citizen, you don't reflect on the relative value of human life. You either tolerate a member of the Iranian government deliberately launching lethal attacks on US personnel or you don't.

    This is a personal story of how I feel on this. When I was a young 2LT in 2009, I walked in the door of my first active Army unit. One of the first things you see in the company HQ of any unit is usually a wall on which pictures of that units KIAs are hung. It is a memorial wall to the Soldiers that unit has lost. One thing immediately jumped out, the names and pictures were all in groups of 4. Four killed on this date, four killed on some other date a month later, and so forth.

    There were only 60 soldiers assigned to this unit (It was a Tank Company), and there were 16 names from a single deployment, all in clusters of 4. As a new LT, I was quite surprised by this, and I asked why we were losing 4 at a time. This is why. Sulemani killed those Soldiers, as clear as if he had shot them himself. Quds Force was saturating Iraq with EFPs, a type of ground implanted explosive that could cut straight through the armor of US vehicles and kill the entire crew. These were not crudely implemented explosives built by farmers, these are designed by engineers and built in factories, Iranian Factories. EFPs require a lot of precision to be effective, the explosion has to be uniform enough to compress, elongate, and propel the metal slug that does the killing.

    This bastard killed hundreds of Americans. I don't actually fault him in a moral sense, it was his job, he was a Soldier doing his duty, but that duty was killing Americans. From what I have seen of this strike, we killed the right guy for the wrong reasons. I think Trump lost his temper and killed Sulemani because he was frustrated, rather then any sort of coherent policy. But we should have killed Sulemani in 2007.

    I personally have little doubt the Iranians (or elements of the Iranian governing structures) were arming those attacking US forces in Iraq - but if you can prove your assertions above you're probably on the trail of a Pulitzer; the US has grumbled, loud and long, about Iranian interference (via IEDs and other materiel) with its forces in Iraq for well over a decade, and definitive proof has, to the best of my knowledge, always been lacking, to the point where the US government eventually just came up with a number of casualties and started blaming the Iranians for it, backed by a lot of repetition and official statements, but a near-complete absence of hard evidence.

    And one very important point to keep in mind when you say things like killing Sulemain and others is acceptable, is that regardless of its de facto position as an aging 800# gorilla, the United States de jure is no different from any other recognized state - if killing Sulemain for the deaths of American soldiers (allegedly) at the hands of people supplied by the organization in which he occupied a ranking position is accepted international practice, then it is also acceptable, as an example, for the recognized government of Syria to assassinate Barack Obama and Donald Trump in response to the US arming of opponents of the Syrian regime; and I, for one, don't think that's a good direction for the world to move in (and "we have nukes and a big army so they wouldn't" is not an improvement).
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  13. #2533
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Wow you sure would look silly if instead the roles were reversed and you were the one saying dumb things, imagine that, smart guy!
    Ah shit, you've got me.

    Unless you don't!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  14. #2534
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    I personally have little doubt the Iranians (or elements of the Iranian governing structures) were arming those attacking US forces in Iraq - but if you can prove your assertions above you're probably on the trail of a Pulitzer; the US has grumbled, loud and long, about Iranian interference (via IEDs and other materiel) with its forces in Iraq for well over a decade, and definitive proof has, to the best of my knowledge, always been lacking, to the point where the US government eventually just came up with a number of casualties and started blaming the Iranians for it, backed by a lot of repetition and official statements, but a near-complete absence of hard evidence.

    And one very important point to keep in mind when you say things like killing Sulemain and others is acceptable, is that regardless of its de facto position as an aging 800# gorilla, the United States de jure is no different from any other recognized state - if killing Sulemain for the deaths of American soldiers (allegedly) at the hands of people supplied by the organization in which he occupied a ranking position is accepted international practice, then it is also acceptable, as an example, for the recognized government of Syria to assassinate Barack Obama and Donald Trump in response to the US arming of opponents of the Syrian regime; and I, for one, don't think that's a good direction for the world to move in (and "we have nukes and a big army so they wouldn't" is not an improvement).
    Honestly I think the whole argument of ''if Iran did it'' is a bit pointless since frankly they either can't do it or won't do it.
    Frankly the killing of any citizen is/should be unacceptable during times when you are not engaged in a formal war. So killing of Sulemain could be legitimate if the US or Iran formally formally declared a war and at that point if would be far to target everybody that was part of the military chain of command.

    As it is now, the US just made itself the aggressor and gave Iran the moral high-ground without any real good reason. There is no real proof that Iran ever attempted to build nuclear weapons but if you ever wanted an excuse Trump just gave them a good one.

  15. #2535
    Warchief DocSavageFan's Avatar
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    ...meanwhile, a Iran-backed military faction recently fired 3 rockets into our embassy in Baghdad with at least one person wounded (apparently a "minor" injury).

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/polit...dad/index.html
    "Never get on the bad side of small minded people who have a little power." - Evelyn (Gifted)

  16. #2536
    Quote Originally Posted by DocSavageFan View Post
    ...meanwhile, a Iran-backed military faction recently fired 3 rockets into our embassy in Baghdad with at least one person wounded (apparently a "minor" injury).

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/polit...dad/index.html
    So, are we still worried that acknowledging the severity of the soldiers brain injuries will lead to escalation?

  17. #2537
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocSavageFan View Post
    ...meanwhile, a Iran-backed military faction recently fired 3 rockets into our embassy in Baghdad with at least one person wounded (apparently a "minor" injury).

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/polit...dad/index.html
    Can you quote where it stated

    " Iran-backed military faction recently fired 3 rockets into our embassy"


    I read the whole thing and don't seem to see that mentioned.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.

  18. #2538
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Can you quote where it stated

    " Iran-backed military faction recently fired 3 rockets into our embassy"


    I read the whole thing and don't seem to see that mentioned.
    I wouldn't hold your breath.

  19. #2539
    The Insane Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    I personally have little doubt the Iranians (or elements of the Iranian governing structures) were arming those attacking US forces in Iraq - but if you can prove your assertions above you're probably on the trail of a Pulitzer; the US has grumbled, loud and long, about Iranian interference (via IEDs and other materiel) with its forces in Iraq for well over a decade, and definitive proof has, to the best of my knowledge, always been lacking, to the point where the US government eventually just came up with a number of casualties and started blaming the Iranians for it, backed by a lot of repetition and official statements, but a near-complete absence of hard evidence.

    And one very important point to keep in mind when you say things like killing Sulemain and others is acceptable, is that regardless of its de facto position as an aging 800# gorilla, the United States de jure is no different from any other recognized state - if killing Sulemain for the deaths of American soldiers (allegedly) at the hands of people supplied by the organization in which he occupied a ranking position is accepted international practice, then it is also acceptable, as an example, for the recognized government of Syria to assassinate Barack Obama and Donald Trump in response to the US arming of opponents of the Syrian regime; and I, for one, don't think that's a good direction for the world to move in (and "we have nukes and a big army so they wouldn't" is not an improvement).
    What the US knows about Iran's involvement and what information they are willing to release to prove it are not one and the same. What you know often leads to an understanding of how you know, and what you know is often less important than how you know it....
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  20. #2540
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    What the US knows about Iran's involvement and what information they are willing to release to prove it are not one and the same. What you know often leads to an understanding of how you know, and what you know is often less important than how you know it....
    are you auditioning for the Joker?

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