1. #501
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    If someone killed Mike Pence while overseas the US wouldn't retaliate?
    Yeah, Indiana would probably throw a party.

  2. #502
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Again you know the potential fallout of this. So are you some war hawk? That's the only people i see defending this. And trump supporters which i know you're not.
    I do. I'm not. And thank you for that.

    The potential fallout is huge. And it's certainly a major consideration. But do we just let country's attack us, over and over again, with no response, while we worry about the fallout? I'm not trying to discount your point - I think it's the most important issue. But we have to take a stand at some point. In my opinion this incident, the attack on the embassy and the assassination of the General, was cut and dry.

    Will Iran try an escalate? More than likely. But did they need a reason to do it? Not really - they would have just made one up and done what they want regardless. This retaliation might actually get them to slow down and reconsider. I mean, if you were an Iranian General right now, would you order an attack on the United States?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    The proper response is to either build the relationship or leave. This response says crush them under our boot and obey.
    I disagree.

    This response says don't order an attack on our Embassy or we'll kill you.
    No one is above the law!

  3. #503
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    If someone killed Mike Pence while overseas the US wouldn't retaliate?
    Lol. And that's the point others have been making. The fallout and Iranian response is worrisome. Closing the Straight would be my guess, just to start.

    Interesting if that happened. IIRC, it takes a vote of the House and Senate to confirm a new VP. Pelosi would be next in line until the 2020 election.
    No one is above the law!

  4. #504
    Does anyone remember when Republicans said they didn't want Hillary because she was a warmonger? It seems those same false conservatives are now applauding Trump for dragging us into war and conflict.

  5. #505
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    This was probably the right decision. The US just needs to be careful about how it wants to guide the narrative. Objectively, this attack is pretty easy to justify - a general largely responsible for organizing Iranian subterfuge efforts against the US (resulting in many American deaths) was plotting new attacks with a terrorist leader in US-friendly territory. It's really pretty black and white. Yes, there are consequences to this action that attach some risk (namely that he's lauded by the Iranian population as a hero) but the Iranian government is already openly hostile to the US and the people of Iran have not been successful in changing that dynamic for the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Different Strokes View Post
    Does anyone remember when Republicans said they didn't want Hillary because she was a warmonger? It seems those same false conservatives are now applauding Trump for dragging us into war and conflict.
    It remains to be seen whether these actions will lead to war. I doubt it. Conflict - yeah, sure. But the US needs to take some action when it's attacked, otherwise people will learn that their attacks will usually not be met with retaliation and Americans will start to die abroad. That's not a future I would be excited for.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I do. I'm not. And thank you for that.

    The potential fallout is huge. And it's certainly a major consideration. But do we just let country's attack us, over and over again, with no response, while we worry about the fallout? I'm not trying to discount your point - I think it's the most important issue. But we have to take a stand at some point. In my opinion this incident, the attack on the embassy and the assassination of the General, was cut and dry.

    Will Iran try an escalate? More than likely. But did they need a reason to do it? Not really - they would have just made one up and done what they want regardless. This retaliation might actually get them to slow down and reconsider. I mean, if you were an Iranian General right now, would you order an attack on the United States?

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    I disagree.

    This response says don't order an attack on our Embassy or we'll kill you.
    Cut and dry? The political assassination knowing full well the full potential this will provoke full on war is the right response? War that always leads to innocent blood spilled. Cut and dry what a joke.

  7. #507
    https://twitter.com/PeterRNeumann/st...02629804929027

    Others may have already pointed out, but just dropping this again as a reminder that Mike Pence either straight up lied - both about the number of 9/11 attackers and Iranian involvement - or Mike Pence is totally ignorant of well established facts relating to the 9/11 attacks.

    I expect this from Trump. I don't expect this from Pence. He's a bootlicker for sure, but he's usually smart enough to keep himself out of this kind of trouble when defending Trump.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    Iran isn't even close to the military capabilities of the US so that comparison doesn't make sense.

    I'm guessing you actually believe something serious will actually happen to Americans because of this ? This entire thing just makes a good news headline, no Americans are going to die because of this lol.
    What are you rambling about? I am pointing out how stupid your premise is we killed their version of Mike Pence except he was popular (80%+ approval rating). Americans will die it's not if but when if it was like you said the Trump administration wouldn't be going defcon5 excepting an attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Yeah, Indiana would probably throw a party.
    Unlike Mike Pence though the guy was widely popular in Iran.

  9. #509
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Cut and dry? The political assassination knowing full well the full potential this will provoke full on war is the right response? War that always leads to innocent blood spilled. Cut and dry what a joke.
    Attacking our Embassy was potentially an act of war. We killed the guy who ordered the attack. Of course Iran can choose to escalate, but their insane leaders don't need a reason to escalate in the first place.

    And again - this will make military leaders rethink their orders.
    No one is above the law!

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    What are you rambling about? I am pointing out how stupid your premise is we killed their version of Mike Pence except he was popular (80%+ approval rating). Americans will die it's not if but when if it was like you said the Trump administration wouldn't be going defcon5 excepting an attack.

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    Unlike Mike Pence though the guy was widely popular in Iran.
    I'm saying your example is irrelevant and your comparison between an attack on Mike Pence vs this makes no sense.

    I suggest you educate yourself on exactly what happened before you respond to this post. Are you saying what if Mike Pence was a military officer and was killed while plotting against Iran near an Iran embassy ?

    Kind of hard to say how popular he is in Iran when most Iranians aren't able to speak against their government as freely as Americans or they are too afraid to do so.
    Last edited by Poe; 2020-01-03 at 10:34 PM.
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Attacking our Embassy was potentially an act of war. We killed the guy who ordered the attack. Of course Iran can choose to escalate, but their insane leaders don't need a reason to escalate in the first place.

    And again - this will make military leaders rethink their orders.
    The protests on our embassy was not an act of war. nobody thinks that. that's not event he reason the pentagon is giving why we killed him.

    And no, this will not make military leaders rethink their orders.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    I'm saying your example is irrelevant and your comparison between an attack on Mike Pence vs this makes no sense.

    I suggest you educate yourself on exactly what happened before you respond to this post. Are you saying what if Mike Pence was a military officer and was killed while plotting against Iran near an Iran embassy ?

    Kind of hard to say how popular he is in Iran when most Iranians aren't able to speak against their government as freely as Americans or they are too afraid to do so.
    I am stating his position within the Iranian government both Bush and Obama passed on killing him because of how popular and prominent he is in Iran. He's been a staple of Iranian politics for decades even his enemies respected him so they will respond your thinking is foolish.

  13. #513
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    The protests on our embassy was not an act of war. nobody thinks that. that's not event he reason the pentagon is giving why we killed him.
    it's not the only reason, but it is one of them. It's why we targeted who we did.


    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    And no, this will not make military leaders rethink their orders.
    You're not thinking through this response very well. Immediately targeting and killing the guy who gave the order to attack a U.S. Embassy won't make military leaders rethink their decisions (I meant "orders" as in giving the order to attack - I didn't say that very clearly above though, my bad).
    No one is above the law!

  14. #514
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/03/polit...ike/index.html

    Why was Lindsey Graham seemingly the only member of Congress briefed on this strike beforehand? Simply because he was hanging out with Trump at Mar a Lago when the decision was made?

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/03/polit...ike/index.html

    Why was Lindsey Graham seemingly the only member of Congress briefed on this strike beforehand? Simply because he was hanging out with Trump at Mar a Lago when the decision was made?
    C’mon now, you know he’s besties with Eric. Clearly he heard it from someone who literally had no business knowing about the strike in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I was told by the trumpeters in the 2016 election that Hillary was the unilateral warmonger who was going to start a war with Syria and therefore couldn’t be trusted whilst trump would be sure to make good deals to bring peace to the region.

    But trump unilaterally ordering an assassination on a ranking member of a sovereign nation is totally fine?
    Clearly he liked Baghadi response and wanted a repeat of that to distract from impeachment.

    Assassinations of American Enemies (of which there are plenty) every three months until election should do the trick! /half-s

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Attacking our Embassy was potentially an act of war. We killed the guy who ordered the attack. Of course Iran can choose to escalate, but their insane leaders don't need a reason to escalate in the first place.

    And again - this will make military leaders rethink their orders.
    So if I went and attacked the embassy in London by hurling some bricks at it the UK would be committing an act of war on the USA?

    *snort* - jesus fuck, the logic in this place boggle belief. You probably believe the shit you write too.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    C’mon now, you know he’s besties with Eric. Clearly he heard it from someone who literally had no business knowing about the strike in advance.
    That Eric Trump tweet wasn't about the strike, it was about the arrival of marines at the embassy. It's a shame so many people fell for it (especially given that it was a snipped tweet that didn't show the time it was posted or the tweet quoted), especially folks who should know better like Seth Abramson.

  19. #519
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    So if I went and attacked the embassy in London by hurling some bricks at it the UK would be committing an act of war on the USA?

    *snort* - jesus fuck, the logic in this place boggle belief. You probably believe the shit you write too.
    Is that what happened? Did they just "hurl some bricks" at the Embassy? Or was it maybe more than that?

    Jesus fuck, the accuracy of this place boggle[s] belief. You probably believe the inaccuracies you type too (am I doing that right? )

    If you want to have an adult conversation about this, I'm all ears. But don't play childish games, we have enough people doing that already.
    No one is above the law!

  20. #520
    Good thing KKKillary Klinton wasn't elected President, we'd have wars like this all the time.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

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