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  1. #1001
    And I’m sure Iranians would argue that Iran is not a terrorist state, you’re arguing perspective.

  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The US is not a terrorist state. That was not terrorism. And any diplomatic relations harmed by this were living on borrowed time anyway and not worth having.

    But fortunately there will be medium term diplomatic consequences to this. Europe will have it’s traditional nice little pouting session whereby it expresses concern about escalation, stability and proportionality. A couple of leaders, probably France and Germany, will do something mildly offensive. And nothing will change because it’s not important enough to anybody.

    We’ve seen this dumb movie.
    We know how it ends.
    Spare us.

    Really. You folks are entitled to your opinions and have a right to do whatever you please. But this “stunned and alarmed” act is just so damn old it’s just really hard to care anymore.

    Europe, I love you, but you aren’t right on this. Not by a long shot. You do you though.
    It was 100% terrorism. Not sure how you can call it anything else.
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    100:1 odds that he wont
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    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Then I’m wrong and the world keeps on spinning.

    It’s a calculated risk. One in my judgment the US is very wise in taking. Iran is in a bad way. It’s ability to response proportionally is limited. And right now they look weak and they know it.

    But it’s also exactly the kind of thing we should be doing, impeachment or no.

    The core problem in your response is the opening line. “What if I’m wrong?” So what? Then I’m wrong. Folks have gotten in their head that’s like the one thing you can’t ever be about something.

    Well I’m a gambler. I’d rather gamble and lose - yes even on foreign policy - than do nothing.

    This Fear if consequences include seeing is just... extraordinary. I realize we have people from a lot of different backgrounds, and 14 years of running my guild and 9 years posting here has shown me that some folks have unbelievable anxiety. But this is just next level. The fact we have to seriously make clear to folks that *gasp* World War III isn’t coming is just insanity.
    If you are wrong then it's a stunt and we become even more isolated. The backlash that will come if what the Iraq PM is right is the biggest foreign policy mistake in decades, this makes Iran look like the victim.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The US is not a terrorist state. That was not terrorism.
    If you are wrong it absolutely is terrorism, we lured someone under the guise of diplomacy and peace just to kill him for Trump's election.

  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I literally said in my second or third post that building deterrence is a process. If this doesn’t exist within a wider strategy to do just that, even if the strategy comes later, then as a one off it doesn’t do much. But it’s a tremendous opportunity.
    thats thing, trump already picked "what the pentagon saw as the most extreme option."

    and it didn't stop attacks.

    so, where does it go from there? what comes after the most extreme option?

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Worked on Skroe, we’ll have to see if it works overall.
    I’m not at all on the team of our illegitimate President and his incompetent skeleton crew administration that can’t hire talent.

    Doesn’t change the fact I think this is an unambiguously good and overdue move and all you folks who wanted push back against Russia and authoritarians and just for proverbially pants’d are badly in the wrong of it.

    Our country was founded on disagreement. We can agree about Trump. We can disagree about this. That is the American way.

    I just think my fellow anti-Trump people are very wrong about this and I am enthusiastically defending an action I think is in the American interest, even if the idiot in chief did it for other reasons, which he did.

    It won’t save him from going down In history as President Cheat. So you see? Nothing has changed. Not one damn thing.

    But maybe some folks in anti-Trump will be more critical now when I say the Us has to push back against Russia in the post-Trump era. I’ve know and long explained exactly what that means - stuff like this and more. What did the rest of you think it meant?Some fucking handshakes and photograph is at the Hauge? I’ve known exactly what I’ve been describing in terms of pushing back and defending the liberal world order for years and have preached that sermon nearly day here.

    So maybe from now on think about the larger implications. We don’t always need to agree.

  6. #1006
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    People seem to dismiss the fact that the US not only killed Suleimani, but 9 other people as well.
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    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    So a few things.

    First, this was not just for killing a contractor. Trump says that but that’s just Trump who just approved the options put infrint of him. If it were just that, Soleimani would probably still be alive.
    Oh sure, and Iraq was really invaded because Saddam was a bad dude...
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  8. #1008
    So now they've put an 80 million dollar bounty on Trump's head. Wonder if there'll be any takers.

    Edit: aww, not the actual government.

  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    If you are wrong then it's a stunt and we become even more isolated. The backlash that will come if what the Iraq PM is right is the biggest foreign policy mistake in decades, this makes Iran look like the victim.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you are wrong it absolutely is terrorism, we lured someone under the guise of diplomacy and peace just to kill him for Trump's election.
    I just wonder why is it exactly trump's fault if terrorism and war crimes is that the USA has been doing for decades

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    thats thing, trump already picked "what the pentagon saw as the most extreme option."

    and it didn't stop attacks.

    so, where does it go from there? what comes after the most extreme option?
    Again, was the attack on the embassy and Americans or just the Green zone? Because that distinction Matters. Iran WILL respond but it seems like a few shitty rockets aren’t the repose. It will be about the US seizing escalation dominance past this and respond as Iran responds until they can’t anymore, that will fully build deterrence. A good example is the lead up to Operation Praying Mantis in the 1980s that ended Iranian attacks for 15 years.

    That’s what the 1000 colonels in the Pentagon building will be charged with coming up yet. We should outright drone every member of this Hezbollah Iraq militant group we can find though.

  11. #1011
    Dreadlord Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    So now they've put an 80 million dollar bounty on Trump's head. Wonder if there'll be any takers.
    That's pretty cheap, trump might get offended and send few more bombs

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    But what is enlightened Europe?
    Enlightened Europe/West is what pushed the ME towards what it is today. Don't forget that current borders and chaos is partly caused by European powers which you just called enlightened.

    I'm happy to live in Europe but at no point do I think that the mess of the ME is caused because of some sort lack of ''revelation'' in the ME. Whenever a ME country tried to go a certain way the response from the West was always negative. Turkey tried to go towards the EU for decades at this point (Erdoğan was once seen as a good thing), Egypt sacked his dictator but a few short years later the army took back the control with western support.
    Enlightened Europe indeed got pushed forward in evolution to a point where they could colonize other nations. Yes, that is how much enlightenment brought us. We need to elevate the other areas of the planet to that point so they can finally actually start to prosper.

    All those charity donations y'all are sending down there to ease your conscience? That's bullshit ending up in warlords' pockets. Getting them to evolve to a state where they can actually utilize their resources, including freedoms, is where we actually pacify those regions. Sure, it'll take a war or two, or maybe a dozen, like in Europe. But it has to happen. And the current hate fueled by religious undertones eminating from that region is only going to get worse with actions like these.

    There is no alternative.
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  13. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I’m not at all on the team of our illegitimate President and his incompetent skeleton crew administration that can’t hire talent.

    Doesn’t change the fact I think this is an unambiguously good and overdue move and all you folks who wanted push back against Russia and authoritarians and just for proverbially pants’d are badly in the wrong of it.

    Our country was founded on disagreement. We can agree about Trump. We can disagree about this. That is the American way.

    I just think my fellow anti-Trump people are very wrong about this and I am enthusiastically defending an action I think is in the American interest, even if the idiot in chief did it for other reasons, which he did.

    It won’t save him from going down In history as President Cheat. So you see? Nothing has changed. Not one damn thing.

    But maybe some folks in anti-Trump will be more critical now when I say the Us has to push back against Russia in the post-Trump era. I’ve know and long explained exactly what that means - stuff like this and more. What did the rest of you think it meant?Some fucking handshakes and photograph is at the Hauge? I’ve known exactly what I’ve been describing in terms of pushing back and defending the liberal world order for years and have preached that sermon nearly day here.

    So maybe from now on think about the larger implications. We don’t always need to agree.
    Dont tell me that you think that the US should bomb Russian generals at airports in Belarus aswell.

  14. #1014
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    If the reports are true that the airstrike happened on the way to a diplomatic meeting, confidence in the US will go way down.

    Why would someone risk going to the table when they might get shot on coming. Doesn't set a good example for others countries as well. Is this democracy?

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    If you are wrong then it's a stunt and we become even more isolated. The backlash that will come if what the Iraq PM is right is the biggest foreign policy mistake in decades, this makes Iran look like the victim.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you are wrong it absolutely is terrorism, we lured someone under the guise of diplomacy and peace just to kill him for Trump's election.
    None of this really matters or will have any effect. I don’t know what to tell you. Countries are not nearly so principled. They are interest driven. Harming their interests in the name of principle, on behalf of Iran, is simply not a thing.

    No one will do squat diplomatically because the Us drones a particular Iranian bad guy. That’s more of the crazy hyperbole that isn’t doing anything by leading to you folks terrorizing themselves.

    When the Us doesn’t go an invade Iran, I’m going to expect a lot of walk backs. And legitimately the only thing I will have to say is “you replaced prudence with a pathological fear of consequences”

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    None of this really matters or will have any effect. I don’t k is what to tell you. Counties are not nearly so principled. They are interest driven.

    No one will do squat diplomatically because the Us drones a particular Iranian bad guy. That’s more of the crazy hyperbole that isn’t doing anything by leading to you folks terrorizing themselves.

    When the Us doesn’t go an invade Iran, I’m going to expect a lot of walk backs. And legitimately the only thing I will have to say is “you replaced prudence with a pathological fear of consequences”
    I never said we are going into WW3 or any of that crap, if you are wrong we have destroyed whatever standing we had left in the world. Who's going to let us negotiate anything? why would any one have peace talk with us on any ground but their own? trust in the US was already at an all time low no sane leader is going to have our backs. I know US vs the world doesn't matter but this has more than just diplomatic effect including trade not to mention increasing the number of countries who will make deals with our enemies and not even consult us.

  17. #1017
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I never said we are going into WW3 or any of that crap, if you are wrong we have destroyed whatever standing we had left in the world. Who's going to let us negotiate anything? why would any one have peace talk with us on any ground but their own? trust in the US was already at an all time low no sane leader is going to have our backs. I know US vs the world doesn't matter but this has more than just diplomatic effect including trade not to mention increasing the number of countries who will make deals with our enemies and not even consult us.
    My feeling on this matter is, no matter how slimy this guy is, he was on his way to a peace conference that the US invited him to. Assassinating someone in this way, is a BAD idea, no matter WHO it is. It's called perfidy and it's against the Geneva Conventions for a very good reason. If the US thinks it can unilaterally lure people into peace conferences and then assassinate them, well look for other countries to just drop Geneva protections for US troops. And noone else will ever negotiate with the US again, because it sends a message that the US does not negotiate in good faith and just assassinates anyone who doesn't align with their interests. Wait until US politicians get assassinated in another country, only for everyone else to collectively shrug and say "well you did it, why shouldn't we"?

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    If the reports are true that the airstrike happened on the way to a diplomatic meeting, confidence in the US will go way down.

    Why would someone risk going to the table when they might get shot on coming. Doesn't set a good example for others countries as well. Is this democracy?
    How many legions does “confidence” have?

    I’m all for moral authority. Talked about the importance of that too for years. But now we
    Are just in the realm of creating fairy tales whereby this doesn’t work out decisively for the US in order to create some kind morally squad universe.

    Guess what? This happened 2 days ago. Nothing else has happened. And it’s extremely likely the US will come out of this in a much better position in the region ans the world then when it entered.

    Would that really be so bad? Like really? If the US
    Can’t kill off someone like Soleimani, what is the entire point of our entire geopolitical presence? He is exactly the kind of person we should be taking off the board.

    We can add to that list some Russian and Chinese irregular figures countering our interests who could suffer... unfortunate... boating accidents as well.

    The US was the Grandmaster at this sort of stuff. It won the last Cold War. It will win the next one.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post

    So no, never trust us. Trust is for children. Just trust that the US will try to advance it’s
    Interests and defend its position. Rational foreign policy should be loveless. It should be only calculated.
    I wasn't talking about such things as friendship, etc. I was talking about something like a business agreements and treaties, as it stands the US is simply unreliable and any treaty with them isn't worth the paper it is written on. That is the status you have reached.

  20. #1020
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    How many legions does “confidence” have?
    Hello, Josif.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

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