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  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    It’s not for America to decide other country’s form of government at all.

    It is certainly our right to keep them locked up within their territory and not internationally significant.

    If change comes to them it must come from within. But we should not pretend for a second that they are internationally as legitimate as any democratic country.
    Well so far our attempts to "keep them locked up" has made life a LOT worse for millions of people.

    We went to Iraq to "keep them locked up". The people of Iraq are MUCH worse off than before we intervened.
    We supported efforts in Libya to "keep them locked up". The people of Libya are MUCH worse off then before we intervened.
    We went to Afghanistan to "keep them locked up". The people of Afghanistan are MUCH worse off due to our intervention.

    We also have made life worse for the people of Yemen and Honduras.

    All of this just to keep these countries "not internationally significant"???

    The money we spent to destroy so many countries could have bought an awful lot of much needed infrastructure improvements in the United States.

  2. #962
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Iran completely backs out of the nuclear deal. Who is shocked? Anyone?

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  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    But what if you are wrong and the reports from Iraq's PM are correct that Trump lured him to Iraq under the guise of peace, this is Trump we are talking about this could all be a hair brain scheme to distract from impeachment and boost his poll numbers for elections. I think you may be giving this administration too much credit that this is part of some chess move to restore respect to the US.
    Then I’m wrong and the world keeps on spinning.

    It’s a calculated risk. One in my judgment the US is very wise in taking. Iran is in a bad way. It’s ability to response proportionally is limited. And right now they look weak and they know it.

    But it’s also exactly the kind of thing we should be doing, impeachment or no.

    The core problem in your response is the opening line. “What if I’m wrong?” So what? Then I’m wrong. Folks have gotten in their head that’s like the one thing you can’t ever be about something.

    Well I’m a gambler. I’d rather gamble and lose - yes even on foreign policy - than do nothing.

    This Fear if consequences include seeing is just... extraordinary. I realize we have people from a lot of different backgrounds, and 14 years of running my guild and 9 years posting here has shown me that some folks have unbelievable anxiety. But this is just next level. The fact we have to seriously make clear to folks that *gasp* World War III isn’t coming is just insanity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Well so far our attempts to "keep them locked up" has made life a LOT worse for millions of people.

    We went to Iraq to "keep them locked up". The people of Iraq are MUCH worse off than before we intervened.
    We supported efforts in Libya to "keep them locked up". The people of Libya are MUCH worse off then before we intervened.
    We went to Afghanistan to "keep them locked up". The people of Afghanistan are MUCH worse off due to our intervention.

    We also have made life worse for the people of Yemen and Honduras.

    All of this just to keep these countries "not internationally significant"???

    The money we spent to destroy so many countries could have bought an awful lot of much needed infrastructure improvements in the United States.
    We can walk and choose bubblegum. Your stare and local taxes pay for infrastructure not so much federal taxes. Want better roads? Call your state house.

    And nothing I am saying describes intervention. I’m describing containment, apparently something some folks just aren’t for either now? The US contained the USSR for 50 years by boxing them in, drawing red lines and periodically breaking their knees. Should we have not done that? Give me a break.

    It’s really some kind of fantasy Mickey Mouse foreign policy some folks are for. I guess I shouldn’t be so surprised that ok’ Eddie Snowden thought that countries shouldn’t spy on each other except in times of war either. It’s entirely consistent with an internet-induced naive world view.

  4. #964
    Well I’d be seriously surprised if this would start a US-Iran war, neither side is interested in going to war with eachother, and Irans options for a response is... well the shit they’ve already pulled, they are not going to attack Israel or w/e.

    My main concern is the road the US is taking, with this, and the idea that taking out such an extremely high profile target is just fine.

    And you’re better than hinting at posters age, “lol just bomb them” is not really the mature stance, confirmed by the fact that the orange idiot decided for it.

  5. #965
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Trump created the situation, lured the General under the guise of peace, and then assassinated him. All so he could get re-elected. You think this is a good gamble even though you’ve been calling for his removal for years. Fucking hilarious change of opinion from you. As soon as there’s a war to be had you’re on Team Trump.
    I guess it worked then.
    /s

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Iran completely backs out of the nuclear deal. Who is shocked? Anyone?
    I'd say good luck with that. Iran definitely needs some deterrence against united states of terrorism

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Turning into a terrorist state and damaging diplomatic connections, is hardly a tremendous opportunity.
    The US is not a terrorist state. That was not terrorism. And any diplomatic relations harmed by this were living on borrowed time anyway and not worth having.

    But fortunately there will be medium term diplomatic consequences to this. Europe will have it’s traditional nice little pouting session whereby it expresses concern about escalation, stability and proportionality. A couple of leaders, probably France and Germany, will do something mildly offensive. And nothing will change because it’s not important enough to anybody.

    We’ve seen this dumb movie.
    We know how it ends.
    Spare us.

    Really. You folks are entitled to your opinions and have a right to do whatever you please. But this “stunned and alarmed” act is just so damn old it’s just really hard to care anymore.

    Europe, I love you, but you aren’t right on this. Not by a long shot. You do you though.

  8. #968
    And I’m sure Iranians would argue that Iran is not a terrorist state, you’re arguing perspective.

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Then I’m wrong and the world keeps on spinning.

    It’s a calculated risk. One in my judgment the US is very wise in taking. Iran is in a bad way. It’s ability to response proportionally is limited. And right now they look weak and they know it.

    But it’s also exactly the kind of thing we should be doing, impeachment or no.

    The core problem in your response is the opening line. “What if I’m wrong?” So what? Then I’m wrong. Folks have gotten in their head that’s like the one thing you can’t ever be about something.

    Well I’m a gambler. I’d rather gamble and lose - yes even on foreign policy - than do nothing.

    This Fear if consequences include seeing is just... extraordinary. I realize we have people from a lot of different backgrounds, and 14 years of running my guild and 9 years posting here has shown me that some folks have unbelievable anxiety. But this is just next level. The fact we have to seriously make clear to folks that *gasp* World War III isn’t coming is just insanity.
    If you are wrong then it's a stunt and we become even more isolated. The backlash that will come if what the Iraq PM is right is the biggest foreign policy mistake in decades, this makes Iran look like the victim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The US is not a terrorist state. That was not terrorism.
    If you are wrong it absolutely is terrorism, we lured someone under the guise of diplomacy and peace just to kill him for Trump's election.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I literally said in my second or third post that building deterrence is a process. If this doesn’t exist within a wider strategy to do just that, even if the strategy comes later, then as a one off it doesn’t do much. But it’s a tremendous opportunity.
    thats thing, trump already picked "what the pentagon saw as the most extreme option."

    and it didn't stop attacks.

    so, where does it go from there? what comes after the most extreme option?

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Worked on Skroe, we’ll have to see if it works overall.
    I’m not at all on the team of our illegitimate President and his incompetent skeleton crew administration that can’t hire talent.

    Doesn’t change the fact I think this is an unambiguously good and overdue move and all you folks who wanted push back against Russia and authoritarians and just for proverbially pants’d are badly in the wrong of it.

    Our country was founded on disagreement. We can agree about Trump. We can disagree about this. That is the American way.

    I just think my fellow anti-Trump people are very wrong about this and I am enthusiastically defending an action I think is in the American interest, even if the idiot in chief did it for other reasons, which he did.

    It won’t save him from going down In history as President Cheat. So you see? Nothing has changed. Not one damn thing.

    But maybe some folks in anti-Trump will be more critical now when I say the Us has to push back against Russia in the post-Trump era. I’ve know and long explained exactly what that means - stuff like this and more. What did the rest of you think it meant?Some fucking handshakes and photograph is at the Hauge? I’ve known exactly what I’ve been describing in terms of pushing back and defending the liberal world order for years and have preached that sermon nearly day here.

    So maybe from now on think about the larger implications. We don’t always need to agree.

  12. #972
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    People seem to dismiss the fact that the US not only killed Suleimani, but 9 other people as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    So a few things.

    First, this was not just for killing a contractor. Trump says that but that’s just Trump who just approved the options put infrint of him. If it were just that, Soleimani would probably still be alive.
    Oh sure, and Iraq was really invaded because Saddam was a bad dude...
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  14. #974
    So now they've put an 80 million dollar bounty on Trump's head. Wonder if there'll be any takers.

    Edit: aww, not the actual government.

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    If you are wrong then it's a stunt and we become even more isolated. The backlash that will come if what the Iraq PM is right is the biggest foreign policy mistake in decades, this makes Iran look like the victim.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you are wrong it absolutely is terrorism, we lured someone under the guise of diplomacy and peace just to kill him for Trump's election.
    I just wonder why is it exactly trump's fault if terrorism and war crimes is that the USA has been doing for decades

  16. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    thats thing, trump already picked "what the pentagon saw as the most extreme option."

    and it didn't stop attacks.

    so, where does it go from there? what comes after the most extreme option?
    Again, was the attack on the embassy and Americans or just the Green zone? Because that distinction Matters. Iran WILL respond but it seems like a few shitty rockets aren’t the repose. It will be about the US seizing escalation dominance past this and respond as Iran responds until they can’t anymore, that will fully build deterrence. A good example is the lead up to Operation Praying Mantis in the 1980s that ended Iranian attacks for 15 years.

    That’s what the 1000 colonels in the Pentagon building will be charged with coming up yet. We should outright drone every member of this Hezbollah Iraq militant group we can find though.

  17. #977
    Banned Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    So now they've put an 80 million dollar bounty on Trump's head. Wonder if there'll be any takers.
    That's pretty cheap, trump might get offended and send few more bombs

  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    But what is enlightened Europe?
    Enlightened Europe/West is what pushed the ME towards what it is today. Don't forget that current borders and chaos is partly caused by European powers which you just called enlightened.

    I'm happy to live in Europe but at no point do I think that the mess of the ME is caused because of some sort lack of ''revelation'' in the ME. Whenever a ME country tried to go a certain way the response from the West was always negative. Turkey tried to go towards the EU for decades at this point (Erdoğan was once seen as a good thing), Egypt sacked his dictator but a few short years later the army took back the control with western support.
    Enlightened Europe indeed got pushed forward in evolution to a point where they could colonize other nations. Yes, that is how much enlightenment brought us. We need to elevate the other areas of the planet to that point so they can finally actually start to prosper.

    All those charity donations y'all are sending down there to ease your conscience? That's bullshit ending up in warlords' pockets. Getting them to evolve to a state where they can actually utilize their resources, including freedoms, is where we actually pacify those regions. Sure, it'll take a war or two, or maybe a dozen, like in Europe. But it has to happen. And the current hate fueled by religious undertones eminating from that region is only going to get worse with actions like these.

    There is no alternative.
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  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I’m not at all on the team of our illegitimate President and his incompetent skeleton crew administration that can’t hire talent.

    Doesn’t change the fact I think this is an unambiguously good and overdue move and all you folks who wanted push back against Russia and authoritarians and just for proverbially pants’d are badly in the wrong of it.

    Our country was founded on disagreement. We can agree about Trump. We can disagree about this. That is the American way.

    I just think my fellow anti-Trump people are very wrong about this and I am enthusiastically defending an action I think is in the American interest, even if the idiot in chief did it for other reasons, which he did.

    It won’t save him from going down In history as President Cheat. So you see? Nothing has changed. Not one damn thing.

    But maybe some folks in anti-Trump will be more critical now when I say the Us has to push back against Russia in the post-Trump era. I’ve know and long explained exactly what that means - stuff like this and more. What did the rest of you think it meant?Some fucking handshakes and photograph is at the Hauge? I’ve known exactly what I’ve been describing in terms of pushing back and defending the liberal world order for years and have preached that sermon nearly day here.

    So maybe from now on think about the larger implications. We don’t always need to agree.
    Dont tell me that you think that the US should bomb Russian generals at airports in Belarus aswell.

  20. #980
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    If the reports are true that the airstrike happened on the way to a diplomatic meeting, confidence in the US will go way down.

    Why would someone risk going to the table when they might get shot on coming. Doesn't set a good example for others countries as well. Is this democracy?

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