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  1. #21
    The biggest issue at hand are the Alliance Pre Mades.
    Any remotely decent Alliance player uses Crossrealm pre mades.

    It's pretty insane actually, if you play against a Pre Made, 80% of Alliance is Rank 8 or higher, if you play vs. a pug, there's barely anyone above Rank 5.

    Horde has simply wisened up and learned that they need to take advantage of every game they play vs. non pug get the most honor out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    Are the alliance pre mades having this problem too ?
    The only issue that Alliance pre mades have is getting too cocky.
    Horde Pug groups sometimes even win vs. Alliance Pre Mades because their strat "Straight rush for Drek" is rather obvious and can be countered if people enough people use the recall trinket.

  2. #22
    I haven't seen this happen, but I can only get one game in per hour with 30 minute queues (Horde).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    I hope you did not compare Retail's Korrak-AV, since all that BG teached players was to ignore PVP, quest in the mine and be done with the farming in 2-3 hours.

    As EU alliance I did my 100k honor essence (R4) farming in just a few evenings. As soon as the normal playing population is involved, you win the honor/hour by default as ally, since you have much shorter queues and the same/better winrate.

    My experience is from the early essence farming by the active/mythic/regular player population. If you play now with seasonal/LFR/classic-quiter players your experience might be a different one in retail.
    I'm my 7th toon, CASUALLY doing Korrak's as a horde. Even if the Alliance turtled, we won. Out of all the games, I've lost MAAAAAYBE 10% of those. And even then, the leveling bonus is toooooo good.

    Frame of reference for me. I am Horde on Zul'Jin. I don't know the battleground, let alone the servers tied to it. All I know, is I was told Horde can que as Horde or Alliance, and vice versa. I also came from Greymane as Alliance back in BC, Wrath, MoP. The transition to MoP is when I made the change. I can't say if I'm over exaggerating my experience, I've lost maybe 15% of all my BGs as Horde. If I come to terms with reality, I could push my bullsh@t meter to like 25%.

    If I'm being more transparent about where my frame of thought comes from.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nargoron View Post
    Good one
    and now serious discussion...
    I mean. I provided my personal experience in AV from BC to current content, in relation to the AV you're playing now.

    Serious discussion. What did you provide to this 'discussion' of "yours"? Honestly.

    Counter just ONE of my statements, mind you, that I based of my own personal experience. Not something I read on a forum. Not something I speak of that I have no bases to comment from. I've ran AV from both perspectives. Even replied with the servers and time frames in which I experienced them.

    So, now. Lets have a serious discussion.

    What I hate in retail servers that is currently running YOUR AV. I've noticed one thing. If you get put into a raid that is already in progress, you have to BEG for an invite. If not, you have to play the mob tagging game with your own faction. Yes. Look it up. You're a loner, with others in a raid who can't see you in frames to heal you, etc.

    To me, you have bigger issues to figure out, other than NOT COUNTERING what you know is already coming. If you already KNOW Horde is going to do THIS, why not counter it.
    Last edited by scelero; 2020-01-03 at 06:28 PM.

  4. #24
    This is a situation that even in the planning phases for classic Blizz was damned if they did damned if they didn't.

    There was precisely zero chance people were going to play AV the way they used to in vanilla. The premades were clearly going to happen. However if they'd changed it to be a more modern AV people would have howled even harder.

    Start joining premades. And honestly, if Horde has everyone backed in to the cave and killing them and you don't /afk out you're kinda responsible for your own misery. If enough people /afk out the bg would close and I don't think Horde would get their honor.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  5. #25
    It'd be different if you didn't have 20 people whining and going AFK when the first rush fails,then 10 more players trying to keep rushing even though it won't work.

    Alliance does have an advantage,most alliance players just refuse to use it

  6. #26
    Although it also just occurred to me Blizz could blow up premades with something as simple as a random delay of anywhere from 15-120 seconds for queueing.

    Also even T1 premades are sometimes struggling as all the T2 players are missing.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  7. #27
    If horde was smart they would create a new meta again.

    Kill the first rush to glav/Drek then defend Drek while capping towers, but letting alliance get some honor with Lt kills.

    So while Alliance would still lose they would not get almost zero honor in Pugs so would feel like they were getting something so likely would keep queuing.

    I admit I have been in a few of those stomps lately since it seems that all the people are moving to premades. If AV stays the same I will likely just stop queuing once I get the AV rep and move on from BG's.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    There was precisely zero chance people were going to play AV the way they used to in vanilla. The premades were clearly going to happen. However if they'd changed it to be a more modern AV people would have howled even harder.
    The problem has multiple layers.

    First off, in a more (faction) balanced enviroment, pre mades would be a lot harder to pull off Pre mades.
    If Alliance had like 8-10min queues, Pre mades would be a lot more difficult, Alliance has such an easy time with making a Pre Made because 40 Alliance players can just force the system to open a new BG.

    Obviously, Blizzard has absolutely no power over this, especially in Classic where a difference between factions is much stronger than in any following expansion.

    Second, the Rush meta is a syndrom of 1.12 AV, people also rushed back in late 06.
    In a previous version of AV, it would be harder to pull off, you couldn't just rush into the enemy base and expect to live, there were a shit ton of npc's within the enemy half.

    It was Blizzard themselves that opened the floodgates for this rush strategy because the earlier versions of AV were taking too damn long, so they removed any brakes that were supposed to prevent these rush strats.

    I don't blame Blizzard for pre mades, that's out of their power and there wouldn't be even a magic fix possible if they attempted to pull one off that doesn't affect queue times, but the fact that they used 1.12 AV instead of an earlier version is entirely their fault.
    I don't think using an earlier version would magically fix any issue, but it would have balanced AV honor gain a lot more.

    Which is the core issue, AV is just so much more effective than WSG, it's not even funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Start joining premades. And honestly, if Horde has everyone backed in to the cave and killing them and you don't /afk out you're kinda responsible for your own misery. If enough people /afk out the bg would close and I don't think Horde would get their honor.
    Position your ghost outside of Spirit Healer range, you'll never get rezzed.
    Alternatively, remove the rezz buff via rightklick.

    If you leave, you just make the Horde strat work because another poor fuck spawns there that will award honor four times, stay as ghost, then they won't get new blood or honor from you.

    If enough people leave the BG, it just ends in a victory for the side with more players, so Horde gets their share one way or another.

  9. #29
    Any remotely competent player on ally is playing in premades so only dogshit players / afks / botters are in pugs now.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Ironically, before av launched in classic, the consensus was that Alliance had a definite advantage over horde, that it wouldn’t be a fair fight.

    So now, horde players played, reviewed what was happening that made them lose, and invented a new meta.

    How about the alliance does the same?

    I’m an alliance player myself, saying get good, and most of all, get organized and have an actual plan.
    Nah, I was specifically told that there's nothing new being done in AVs, it's all the same since vanilla lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Yeah but it's no like you're in a rush to get anything - Classic is a finite game, you can take 10 years to get whatever you want. If you get it too fast, what will you do in a couple years?
    12 High Warlords
    12 Grand Marshals
    12 Naxx Bis Horde classes
    12 Naxx Bis Alliance classes
    100% All The Things Insane Account https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/all-the-things

    After that, do the first 4 again
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) Kill yourself -updated 3/7/2020

  11. #31
    If you're alliance and not taking advantage of instant queues with premades then you're doing it wrong. An organized ally premade wins in 5-6 minutes and can queue instantly for another AV after winning.

  12. #32
    Banned Eugenik's Avatar
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    Personally, finished the rep grind a week or so ago and stopped queing. The only Alliance pugging arent connected to the pre-made GM groups. I pity puggers but theres a way to cheat the system and piggy back into premades if you think about how you queue.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Ironically, before av launched in classic, the consensus was that Alliance had a definite advantage over horde, that it wouldn’t be a fair fight.

    So now, horde players played, reviewed what was happening that made them lose, and invented a new meta.

    How about the alliance does the same?

    I’m an alliance player myself, saying get good, and most of all, get organized and have an actual plan.
    you are ofc correct and give good advise but on av and in a pug which lets be honest is most of the time for most players,no one listens in the cave when some guy tries to give good sound advise.

  14. #34
    Unfortunately, the current state of AV is a huge disappointment.

  15. #35
    Field Marshal
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    I think it’s hilarious when alliance complain. EVERYTHING about AV right now favour’s alliance.
    1st Que times.
    2nd Alliance can make premades (horde cannot we have tried)
    3rd Map makes it easier for alliance to Zerg horde towers are useless in comparison.
    4th Fast que times allow the alliance to play more AV thus get more practice so therefore can adjust to metas quicker.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think it’s hilarious when alliance complain. EVERYTHING about AV right now favour’s alliance.
    1st Que times.
    2nd Alliance can make premades (horde cannot we have tried)
    3rd Map makes it easier for alliance to Zerg horde towers are useless in comparison.
    4th Fast que times allow the alliance to play more AV thus get more practice so therefore can adjust to metas quicker.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by natpick View Post
    you are ofc correct and give good advise but on av and in a pug which lets be honest is most of the time for most players,no one listens in the cave when some guy tries to give good sound advise.
    Maybe, but horde manages to some degree aswell

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariktu View Post
    If horde was smart they would create a new meta again.

    Kill the first rush to glav/Drek then defend Drek while capping towers, but letting alliance get some honor with Lt kills.

    So while Alliance would still lose they would not get almost zero honor in Pugs so would feel like they were getting something so likely would keep queuing.

    I admit I have been in a few of those stomps lately since it seems that all the people are moving to premades. If AV stays the same I will likely just stop queuing once I get the AV rep and move on from BG's.
    Wait what????

    If horde was smart they would let alliance get more honnor is what you are saying?

    Why would they let you get more honnor? And how does that make them smart?

    Just stop queing when you get your rep dude! You are not going to be the first nor the last.... that's what horde is doing already. AV bgs will still pop without you and them. The game is already "not that good", so if we start agreeing with the other faction for that kind of stuff then it become completely mindless... I swear, all those wanabee R14 are ruining all the fun with reasoning like this. And most of them will stop bothering with it once they reach their goal! So what's the fucking point of this "game"

  18. #38
    Pit Lord Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    Feels so nice when Horde players bitch about queues when it's their own damn fault. Refreshing.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    Feels so nice when Horde players bitch about queues when it's their own damn fault. Refreshing.
    How is it their fault? Because horde stomp the alliance atm ??

    Remember a couple weeks ago, when alliance won every AV? With threads on this very forum to make fun of horde like "AV, alliance won the war" etc.....

    Guess what, the horde adapted. Now we win. How about the alliance doing the same and change strategy rather than threatening to stop queuing??

    "Hurr if you dont let me win, I stop playing Durr"

    Like fucking kids ...
    Last edited by Beuargh; 2020-01-04 at 12:00 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Beuargh View Post
    How is it their fault? Because horde stomp the alliance atm ??

    Remember a couple weeks ago, when alliance won every AV? With threads on this very forum to make fun of horde like "AV, alliance won the war" etc.....

    Guess what, the horde adapted. Now we win. How about the alliance doing the same and change strategy rather than threatening to stop queuing??

    "Hurr if you dont let me win, I stop playing Durr"

    Like fucking kids ...
    I doubt its about winning, alliance players generally don't care if they win or not, they just want fast games with a lot of honor, they dont care if horde win or if they win, as long as the game is fast.
    Alliance dont seem to want long games, so when horde forces long games (against alliance pugs), generally pre mades will force a fast game anyway. Less and less alliance pugs players will keep queueing as they dont like the turtle meta horde is forcing making queue's longer for horde and making so that relatively more % of games are premade on alliance side.
    this in turn makes the horde "cry" about longer queue's and facing more and more premades. Which is something they could have avoided by just playing fast games with a lot of honor for both sides and who cares about the win, it doesnt mean a lot.

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