Additional Demon Hunter races

[Varodoc]

You just answered to your own question before, on other post. "Alleria said that the void destroys fel" or something like that. Which is true.
It would destroy the class that they are, the race, their concept. This is not being overly emotional (melodramatic), it's stating a fact, and everyone, or almost everyone knows.

Void creature being infused with fel - it's a boss and volatile and can't be controlled. All a demon hunter is not, demon hunter controlls the demon within already.
Like sure, let's just pull out from the butt another weird mix for elves and give nothing to other classes that could easily be demon hunters. And 1. Draenei for example would be easier to manage, 2. For void elves to be demon hunters there would be needing a big stretch.

Never saying it's impossible but it's mostly impossible in between the whole choices, and not to say, as i said many times, they have already their own infused-something going on. I don't see why this theme would be applicable to void elves in any perspective rather than aesthetic purposes. What makes you think a high elf because they refused to be trained wouldn't they become one? Void elves has a diversity of blood elves and high elves, so... If those blood elves were never even interested in it, so won't be them anyway interested now that they are infused with void.

On wow we try make sense of race and class combinations. Maybe if we weren't told about void and fel not being well mixed together, we would just say "fuck yeeeeee let's get void elf demon hunters", but once i know those things my brain tricks me and tells me a straight fat ass NO. rofl

Not that it destroys it. That it is lethal. It's different. And I don't believe it is Alleria who says it, it's only mentioned in her audio drama.

Xhul'horac can indeed be dominated. Gul'dan was controlling him to support his war effort. Xhul'horac was ultimately overwhelmed because he couldn't withstand the amount of power he was channeling. The entire theme of the Ren'dorei is learning how to control such overwhelming power. As their story progresses, so could their knowledge on this subject. Besides, Xhul'horac was being fed with overwhelming amount of energy by Gul'dan. If Gul'dan wasn't spoonfeeding him to no end, he probably wouldn't have been so unstable once unleashed.

Besides, I never said other races shouldn't be demon hunters. Only that Ren'dorei demon hunters would be an interesting combination and lorewise would advance the Ren'dorei's story in a unique way that at the same time respects established characteristics of both void and fel. Also, the Void can bend fel creatures. We saw that in Mac'aree. The broken there, who were previously mutated by fel magic (that's how draenei become broken), ultimately succumbed to the corruptive power of the void and were being controlled by the Dark Naaru.

Finally, demon hunters are not and never were a race.

[Shakana]

Not that it destroys it. That it is lethal. It's different. And I don't believe it is Alleria who says it, it's only mentioned in her audio drama.

Xhul'horac can indeed be dominated. Gul'dan was controlling him to support his war effort. Xhul'horac was ultimately overwhelmed because he couldn't withstand the amount of power he was channeling. The entire theme of the Ren'dorei is learning how to control such overwhelming power. As their story progresses, so could their knowledge on this subject. Besides, Xhul'horac was being fed with overwhelming amount of energy by Gul'dan. If Gul'dan wasn't spoonfeeding him to no end, he probably wouldn't have been so unstable once unleashed.

Besides, I never said other races shouldn't be demon hunters. Only that Ren'dorei demon hunters would be an interesting combination and lorewise would advance the Ren'dorei's story in a unique way that at the same time respects established characteristics of both void and fel.

Finally, demon hunters are not and never were a race.

They are not a race, but they are locked up in certain races due to the theme and what a demon hunter is all about and it's purposes for existing.
One can even discuss it now, the useless existence of them in the world in bfa, they were created for one simple thing and that thing is just not currently active.
As i said here somewhere i even feel like a amish in bfa.
They are very limited.

If they weren't created to fight demons and for this purpose only i think it would be less limited.

It's just not only about the energy, it's also what they are made for. I guess fighting against Jaina, etc, it was not something a demon hunter was designed to do.

I see them capturing something like other races that had some involvement with the Legion, such as the Draeneis and the Orcs.

The DHS could teach other races, but the purpose would be different, and if void elves wanted to be demon hunters i would already imagine the conversation:

"OMG that's so cool, you know, i hear voices too, the void, i want to have a alive-dead experience and try for demons voices too, and feel my eyes burning, and oh damn, tattoos, that's so sexy, and who knows, i will probably be more edgy than demon hunters itself, i'm so cool i can take 2 infused energies, simple blood elves and night elves infused with fel? That's cute"

[Varodoc]

They are not a race, but they are locked up in certain races due to the theme and what a demon hunter is all about and it's purposes for existing.
One can even discuss it now, the useless existence of them in the world in bfa, they were created for one simple thing and that thing is just not currently active.
As i said here somewhere i even feel like a amish in bfa.
They are very limited.

If they weren't created to fight demons and for this purpose only i think it would be less limited.

It's just not only about the energy, it's also what they are made for. I guess fighting against Jaina, etc, it was not something a demon hunter was designed to do.

I see them capturing something like other races that had some involvement with the Legion, such as the Draeneis and the Orcs.

The DHS could teach other races, but the purpose would be different, and if void elves wanted to be demon hunters i would already imagine the conversation:

"OMG that's so cool, you know, i hear voices too, the void, i want to have a alive-dead experience and try for demons voices too, and feel my eyes burning, and oh damn, tattoos, that's so sexy, and who knows, i will probably be more edgy than demon hunters itself, i'm so cool i can take 2 infused energies, simple blood elves and night elves infused with fel? That's cute"

No? If anything Magister Umbric would be like:

"So, after studying for months in Telogrus Rift, we've been able to discover a way for us to use demons to calm down the whispers. We can use our void powers to take control of a demon -- like the void ethereals did in Mac'aree with the fel-infused broken -- and then use the fel energy of that demon to resist the whispers -- since demons are known for bending the void to their will.

We should send an emissary to the Illidari. It would be great if they were willing to train a few of us in the ways of the demon hunters, to see if our theory is correct."

[Shakana]

No? If anything Magister Umbric would be like:

"So, after studying for months in Telogrus Rift, we've been able to discover a way for us to use demons to calm down the whispers. We can use our void powers to take control of a demon -- like the void ethereals did in Mac'aree with the fel-infused broken -- and then use the fel energy of that demon to resist the whispers -- since demons are known for bending the void to their will.

We should send an emissary to the Illidari. It would be great if they were willing to train a few of us in the ways of the demon hunters, to see if our theory is correct."

I can see where you going on there. To help ease the pain of the demon hunters (vengeance dhs) by joining forces, but that's also not what they look for. It's that pain and those demons voices and demon blood running through their veins that again, makes them who they are. It's the vengeance feeling and purposes they are made around.

[Maljinwo]

Voidwalkers are demons. Therefore void-based demons exist.

No. They are not.

Ask CDev round 4:

Void creatures (Dimensius, particularly Voidwalkers, Darkened Naaru) are different than Demons. True or false?
True!

They are classified as demon in-game solely by game mechanics the same way Forsaken are classified as humanoid instead of undead

[Varodoc]

Void-based demons already exist anyway:



This is a void hound. From Chronicles 1:

Void hounds,[1][2] also known as void terrors,[3] are huge and extremely powerful two-headed demons that roam the trackless wastes of the Twisting Nether like ravenous beasts.

Despite being demons, they are infused with the void and are even used by N'Zoth in his armies (as we can see in Ny'alotha).

Also, if demons can be infused by the Light, which was the main enemy of Sargeras and the Burning Crusade, I don't see why the void shouldn't.

Finally, Xavius is exactly that. A demon who was twisted by the energy of the Old Gods. So yes, it could be possible for the Ren'dorei demon hunters to control their inner demon.

[Shakana]

Void-based demons already exist anyway:



This is a void hound. From Chronicles 1:



Despite being demons, they are infused with the void and are even used by N'Zoth in his armies (as we can see in Ny'alotha).

Also, if demons can be infused by the Light, which was the main enemy of Sargeras and the Burning Crusade, I don't see why the void shouldn't.

Finally, Xavius is exactly that. A demon who was twisted by the energy of the Old Gods. So yes, it could be possible for the Ren'dorei demon hunters to control their inner demon.

Plausible. But i'm going to tell you a story:

Once upon a time priests and warlocks were supposed to be one class.
Once upon a time, the priests started to be masters of light and void.
Once upon a time a warlock could transform himself into a demon for mastering demonology so well. And they could do whatever they wished with void and fel. They were not infused by anything, they wielded the energies.
Once upon a time demon hunters came and those same metamorphosis were taken from warlocks.

Warlocks now summon demons from twisting nether, such as demons as we know or a bigger threat demon. They can banish them but not kill them. They are useful for warlocks.
Demon Hunters only had the purpose to kill them.

After all this lore and all of the things we know, void elves that were just introduced to the game, weak backup story to make a demon hunter, all of this you imagine would be needing a full explanation and a big stretch story to make them relevant and worthy. They are already warlocks, makes more sense than demon hunters if you ask me.

[Felrane]

The failure rate is so high it makes no sense for ANY other races to even attempt the ritual. Unless Blizzard adds new quests/lore that reduce the rituals failure rate which seems easy to do. For all we know because it was just Illidan peforming the ritual it had draw backs but with a large enough group of Mages/Warlocks/Demonhunters helping out it could be made safe.

Zandalari already have Demonicis but they burn away the Demon so the ritual would have to be altered.

Void Elves could just consume a Void demons/abberations heart. Turn all their spells into void abilitys.

Fel Orcs were already allied with Illidan so having them join the horde would be an easy way to have Orcs as Demonhunters.

An Eredar faction could also join the Demonhunters I am betting there were draenei that didn't want to join the Legion but couldn't escape with Velen we know he left some behind.

If the Ritual is made safe then the best option would be any titan created races. They are more resistent to Fel corruption then other races due to their Arcane origin. Humans/Kul Tirans/Dwarves/Gnomes and Orcs. Elves are honestly one of the worst choices they tend to changed based on the magics.

[Capultro]

Do tell why they're outright needed as demon hunters... That they're your favorites isn't an argument.

human is the favorite race par excellence forever, and I do not need to look at any census, but everyone knows that the most played races are human, and blood elf in the horde, ahem, the humans of kultiras have simply been a failure, worse still the women of kultiras ... have no appeal or grace. If you are not an alliance, at least you have the blood elves, who are mostly in fact ... but I would say that humans reign, since most people play in the alliance, especially the new ones, stormwind has a special charm, and even more if you are human, you should know ...

[Halyon]

human is the favorite race par excellence forever, and I do not need to look at any census, but everyone knows that the most played races are human, and blood elf in the horde, ahem, the humans of kultiras have simply been a failure, worse still the women of kultiras ... have no appeal or grace. If you are not an alliance, at least you have the blood elves, who are mostly in fact ... but I would say that humans reign, since most people play in the alliance, especially the new ones, stormwind has a special charm, and even more if you are human, you should know ...

Well, I mean..blood elf is the most popular race in the game. Of both factions. Male AND female. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/

Also, argument ad popularum is not a good argument for why they should get x or y. So...

Lol, if something doesn't appeals to you is an even worse argument for them not getting x or y either.

Also humans bore the fuck out of me in any game with other races available to the player. Half-human hybrid? Maybe, depends on the circumstances. I'm a fan of the exotic.

[Absintheminded]

Draenei/Orcs and Void Elves/Nightborne have always been the most obvious and requested race combos for Demonhunters.

Eredar and Fel Orcs don't make much sense lorewise, because they aren't containing demons inside, they have become demons themselves.

...you mean, like, when demon hunters use metamorphosis?

[shade3891]

Don't Void Elf Warlocks channel fel fire magic?

[Capultro]

Well, I mean..blood elf is the most popular race in the game. Of both factions. Male AND female. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/

Also, argument ad popularum is not a good argument for why they should get x or y. So...

Lol, if something doesn't appeals to you is an even worse argument for them not getting x or y either.

Also humans bore the fuck out of me in any game with other races available to the player. Half-human hybrid? Maybe, depends on the circumstances. I'm a fan of the exotic.

what is clear, is that the tauren and the troll are not paladins by chance, those ugly races that nobody wants to play, they need a push, and nothing better than being able to be paladin. at the time that the goblins or the gnomes could be paladins , its population will surely ascend, the same if you give blood elves druids, or rogue to the tauren, it is obvious

[Halyon]

what is clear, is that the tauren and the troll are not paladins by chance, those ugly races that nobody wants to play, they need a push, and nothing better than being able to be paladin. at the time that the goblins or the gnomes could be paladins , its population will surely ascend, the same if you give blood elves druids, or rogue to the tauren, it is obvious

You have some weird notions...

[Varodoc]

Don't Void Elf Warlocks channel fel fire magic?

Yes. Though warlocks are different in the sense that they themselves become demons since they possess an inner demon. That's why they gave demon form to the demon hunters and removed it from warlocks.

Regardless yes, Ren'dorei can indeed become warlocks, so they can wield massive amounts of fel magic.

[Raisei]

Don't Void Elf Warlocks channel fel fire magic?

They do, which is a precedence. Basically like Holy Priest Void Elves or baseline Discipline Priests are the precedent for Void Elf Paladins.

These different cosmic powers are not mutually exclusive. Balance Priests are the example of a single being controlling both Void and Light, it requires an immense amount of ... well... discipline to do it, but it is possible.

Void Elf Warlocks have mastered Fel and Void, again possible, but difficult. Xul'horac in HFC is just another example.

I think the only thing I have not yet seen is a being that uses both Light and Fel togeth... no wait, the Maiden of Something in ToS. She suffered for it, talking of a soul devided. However it was not her choice to use these two forces together, so maybe that is the problem.

So even in the Lore we have beings that contol 2 of these 3 forces together, there is no reason the PCs can't do it.


Besides and away from the Lore I think the time for limiting class choices by race is pretty much over. Just allow people to play what they like. RPers can limit their choice by Lore if they so choose, no need to limit it for them.

Allowing everyone to be DKs in Shadowlands is a first step into that direction and I very much appreciate it. DH is my next wish, Voif Elf especially, since I jsut dislike the Night Elf model.

[pacotaco]

They would be easy becasue they have access to DH animations, still they would need to do new sets of collections for special customization. They would also need to do some skin colors and recoloring of the demon forms. But they can't just put them in DH starting zone. Void Elves didn't exist until the end of Legion and Nightborne were locked up in the bubble. First half of the starting zone takes place during TBC. It would require the Fourth War DKs treatment, new special zone with new origin story. In the eyes of Blizzard this can happen only if it fits the story so maybe after Shadowlands.

As for any other races. Technicly you can make up a new lore to allow for any race being any class but some of them will be a big streatch. Orcs(fel/chaos orcs) and Draenei (Man'ari) would be the best fit. But they would require some more work with animations, customization collections and demon forms.

- They're changing the starting experience to a one-fit-all scenario. New characters in Shadowlands start at a new uncharted island at level 1. Even hero classes.
- Only a veteran player (a player with at least a max level character) can start at the old scenarios..
- DKs of the allied races are forced to start at this new sceneario.

Knowing all that, they could do the same for new DHs. So that's not the problem anymore. It's more of a "is there enough reason to be new DHs?" and a "any new DH race need their proper customization (skins/horns/whatever) + 2 demon form models (havoc & vengeance) "

They could use orcs and draenei because the concept of their demonic appereance is already stablished:
- Orcs get red/black and spiky. Vengeance form could be the gorilla-like form of the Black Temple orc boss. They would need a havoc form though.


- Draenei get red/black and more horny. Havoc form could be a more feral form like Kil'jaeden and those winged eredar. The Vengeance form could be the Eredar Brutes.

[Varodoc]

They'd have to make new demon forms to match the new races, and that might be a problem. Although Ren'dorei and Nightborne wouldn't be an issue, I guess, since they are similar to BEs and NEs.