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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire pinelakias's Avatar
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    Take out LFR, take out Normal, rename Heroic to Normal, rename Mythic to Heroic. Also, remove war/titanforging (aka casino gear). This way, you can keep the iLvls low if you actually try to keep em in check and you will also remove meaningless modes. The only thing LFR does is letting every casual that want to do nothing, experience everything... Just, why?

  2. #42
    So mythic dungeons (like we have), and even more balancing issues? I would personally just like 10man mythic raids, not 40, fuck that noise...


    Quote Originally Posted by pinelakias View Post
    Take out LFR, take out Normal, rename Heroic to Normal, rename Mythic to Heroic. Also, remove war/titanforging (aka casino gear). This way, you can keep the iLvls low if you actually try to keep em in check and you will also remove meaningless modes. The only thing LFR does is letting every casual that want to do nothing, experience everything... Just, why?
    Ohhh noooo!

    LFR doesn't award the same ilvl gear as normal and above outside of lucky titanforging, and that's going away. People won't raid the 'proper' raids more if LFR's removed, they won't raid at all, and wtf with removing normal? Elitist much?

    What is it to you if someone sees the end of the storylines in what's basically story-mode, as compared to the other difficulties? The 'real' mode is mythic. And not many people out of the entire playerbase ever see that when it's current, so...just stop with this line of thinking. Please.

  3. #43
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    40 man raids are a bit of an issue logistically, which is why the system was dropped in TBC. Also, as FFXIV demonstrates, matchmaking isn't a problem in raiding, the problem is Blizz's cynical devs who lobotomize LFR rather than maintain Throne of Thunder-esque difficulty (ToT LFR wasn't hard, but it was challenging for the target demographic of low-skilled/weekend-warrior players who only had X time to dedicate to raiding). WoW's LFR system could easily handle raids on par with Copied Factory and Orbonne Monastery.

    As for 5-man raids, if memory serves that was the original concept behind dungeons like Return to Karazhan, and I really liked how that panned out. 5 players can handle sprawling dungeon crawls perfectly well, and it can be winged off for Heroics the following patch. I'd love to see more big, engaged dungeon crawls and fewer dungeons that are hyperstreamlined for MDI esports.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    More like bin LFR and bring solo raids.

    At least then the personal responsibility would get people to actually learn the tactics.
    Solo learn the mechanics meant for 2 and more ppl? I dont think you have done any current expansion raid have you? Theres bunch of mechanics that rely on more than 1 person.

  5. #45
    Stood in the Fire pinelakias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    LFR doesn't award the same ilvl gear as normal and above outside of lucky titanforging, and that's going away.
    Elitist much?
    War/titanforge goes away for this patch. As far as we know, this "feature" comes back in shadowlands.
    Yes, I am an elitist. If by elitist you mean I actually want to play and enjoy the game to experience something that others cant unless they try. Wasn't that the point of playing an MMORPG?

  6. #46
    I want to see a new system, we can call it Mythicc or Mythiccc, doesn't matter much.

    I want it to still be keyed content, but with a Death stock, not a time limit. I'd like to see different takes on mob packs, maybe more densely packed, random dungeon bosses mixed in, etc... and I'd like to see bosses that eschew the traditional 5 man format, perhaps requiring 2 healers or 2 tanks. Not to mention double bosses, ie the last boss is accompanied by the first boss. Something interesting. Also have varying rewards, if a dungeon requires 2 tanks at one point, the second tank gets a choice of both tank or dps or healer reward.
    I want to see a challenging experience that doesn't force a time constraint, leading to more interesting ways to defeat dungeons.

  7. #47
    We have 5 man raids, like operation mechagon or un-split karazhan from Legion.

  8. #48
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcleaver View Post
    Solo learn the mechanics meant for 2 and more ppl? I dont think you have done any current expansion raid have you? Theres bunch of mechanics that rely on more than 1 person.
    Retune them for one. Add NPC's to cover the rest. Punish the player when they fuck up the mechanics. Pretty simple.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingWarrior View Post
    Disclaimer: This is, as you have noticed, a half-baked post, whose content is not likely to be made, and was posted by a non-raider, so don't take it too seriously.

    So, this is probably not going to work, but it's an idea I had anyway. Admittedly, I am not familiar with raiding scene too much, and shouldn't be posting this. But here it goes. Afaik this is akin to what Ulduar system was, if not the same shit.

    So, instead of this LFR/Normal/Heroic/Mythic bullshit, we get 5 man/10 man/25 man/40 man raiding. 5man drops shit loot, it's LFR tier easy, if not more, and directed at the casual players, who probably want to complete the raid quests that appear out in the world, or see what's in the raid. Think it as Blackrock Depths/Lower/Upper Spire, with "raiding bosses." 10 man is the normal, and drops slightly better loot in comparison to 5 man. 25 man is where shit gets real, with solid loot and 40 would be hard as fuck, with the best gear.

    IDK what to make of Mythicc+ in this system, so I'd appericiate the help and any ideas that you might throw at me.
    Go for solo raids, whilst we are at it.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    I want to see a new system, we can call it Mythicc or Mythiccc, doesn't matter much.

    I want it to still be keyed content, but with a Death stock, not a time limit. I'd like to see different takes on mob packs, maybe more densely packed, random dungeon bosses mixed in, etc... and I'd like to see bosses that eschew the traditional 5 man format, perhaps requiring 2 healers or 2 tanks. Not to mention double bosses, ie the last boss is accompanied by the first boss. Something interesting. Also have varying rewards, if a dungeon requires 2 tanks at one point, the second tank gets a choice of both tank or dps or healer reward.
    I want to see a challenging experience that doesn't force a time constraint, leading to more interesting ways to defeat dungeons.
    I know that the idea sounds cool, but it doesn't really work in practice.
    If you remove the time limit from M+, you (generally) remove a) the necessity to do decent DPS (which is harder than doing poor DPS), b) the necessity to make slightly bigger pulls (which are always harder to deal with than smaller pulls) and b) make deaths less punishing.
    Now you could add a limit to deaths, but that would still not solve a) and b). Also, when designing any system, you have to think of "exploits".
    In M+ with no time limit and just a death limit, people would start doing ridiculous defensive setups like 3 tanks 2 healers (unless there are bosses with soft/hard enrages which require more DPS). And even if you would only allow the composition of 1 tank 1 healer 3 DPS as usual, people would gear and spec very defensively in that case, because DPS would rarely be an issue anymore.
    The time limit, although it might seem simplistic, is a good solution to the problems a) and b) And if you think it's fine when that would matter less, well, you'd make it much easier that way, which isn't the way to go in a competitive mode.
    The time limit is really mostly there to require decent DPS and as little deaths as possible from the group. So it directly enforces good play.
    Last edited by TaurenNinja; 2020-01-04 at 03:43 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    Raids should scale from 1 to 40 players.
    I like that idea.

    Or better yet, one click join group for every activity in game.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    I know that the idea sounds cool, but it doesn't really work in practice.
    If you remove the time limit from M+, you (generally) remove a) the necessity to do decent DPS (which is harder than doing poor DPS), b) the necessity to make slightly bigger pulls (which are always harder to deal with than smaller pulls) and b) make deaths less punishing.
    Now you could add a limit to deaths, but that would still not solve a) and b). Also, when designing any system, you have to think of "exploits".
    In M+ with no time limit and just a death limit, people would start doing ridiculous defensive setups like 3 tanks 2 healers (unless there are bosses with soft/hard enrages which require more DPS). And even if you would only allow the composition of 1 tank 1 healer 3 DPS as usual, people would gear and spec very defensively in that case, because DPS would rarely be an issue anymore.
    The time limit, although it might seem simplistic, is a good solution to the problems a) and b) And if you think it's fine when that would matter less, well, you'd also make it much easier that way.
    I get what you are saying, but you also solve the issue with enrage mechanics, or just damage output. It would be balanced the same way raiding is balanced, around expected DPS and TTK. It's why damage is king and can completely simplify some raid encounters.

    I also think that the players that are savvy enough to run a 3 tank/2 healer set up for ultimate survivability are also the same players who wouldn't want to spend an hour (hypothetical boss with no enrage) to down a dungeon boss.

    Essentially it would be more along the lines of Karazhan or Mechagon, where the enemies are just more difficult in general. But I want to see experimental mob packs and interesting boss ideas. Like fighting 2 or 3 bosses vs just the one.

    I think (I hope) Torghast is going to fill this niche, granted in a more rogue like manner. But I think it bears merit for normal dungeons.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by pinelakias View Post
    War/titanforge goes away for this patch. As far as we know, this "feature" comes back in shadowlands.
    Yes, I am an elitist. If by elitist you mean I actually want to play and enjoy the game to experience something that others cant unless they try. Wasn't that the point of playing an MMORPG?
    People play for different things... Not just e-peen contest. If you want to be in the exclusive club, then 'Ahead of the Curve' is your ball-game, and doing mythic raids when current.

    That doesn't warrant taking shit away from others.

  14. #54
    5 man raids.

    what is M+?

    oh yes its optional scaling difficulty that gets as hard as you can go.

    making completely new huge 5mans takes a lot of dev time, making LFR takes literally no time to just scale down normal mode remove a few abilities etc.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    that's still way too much tiers
    they need to remove 2 tiers, both LFR and Normal
    I miss days when the new content was actually new content, not same dungeon/raid with 1502 difficulty lvl (yes i know those days don't exist since over 10 years now)
    Bosses back in Vanilla/BC where mostly boring piñatas with 2-3 abilities max, having a glorified trash mobs with a proper name and free loot doesn't mean you have more content.
    Quote Originally Posted by pinelakias View Post
    War/titanforge goes away for this patch. As far as we know, this "feature" comes back in shadowlands.
    Yes, I am an elitist. If by elitist you mean I actually want to play and enjoy the game to experience something that others cant unless they try. Wasn't that the point of playing an MMORPG?
    Titanforging is only a problem to people with self esteem issues, i don't care if Billy Onehand gets to loot 445 ilvl in LFR because i'm looting it way earlier than him and will complete mythic before last wing of LFR comes out. If they start giving away free loot at the end of the pàtch so people doesn't have a rough time when the next patch hits, i don't care at all, as long as they don't give free epics since the start of the patch; and yes, you can argue that someone with an insanely good luck can have the same ilvl than a mythic raider just doing LFR, but that's one case in billions or even trillions, it's not even worth it to think it can happen. Literally, using more digits in the pi number (normally we use only 3.1416 for even the most accurate calculations) is more important than the 450 LFR guy.
    Last edited by Baleful; 2020-01-04 at 04:08 PM.

  16. #56
    Setting up raids with 40 people was and is a major pain in the fucking ass.

    Your idea is good, but IMO should be the other way around. 40 will be the LFR, que based system as it is. 25 man being normal/heroic 10 being mythic, 5 man being a mythic+ based design

  17. #57
    ...Why remove the most popular raiding format? If anything, Mythic Raiding would be the one removed way before the others, and the 5-man content would be tuned harder.

  18. #58
    They ain't removing the one raid difficulty that is what makes them keep making raids in the first place.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingWarrior View Post
    Disclaimer: This is, as you have noticed, a half-baked post, whose content is not likely to be made, and was posted by a non-raider, so don't take it too seriously.

    So, this is probably not going to work, but it's an idea I had anyway. Admittedly, I am not familiar with raiding scene too much, and shouldn't be posting this. But here it goes. Afaik this is akin to what Ulduar system was, if not the same shit.

    So, instead of this LFR/Normal/Heroic/Mythic bullshit, we get 5 man/10 man/25 man/40 man raiding. 5man drops shit loot, it's LFR tier easy, if not more, and directed at the casual players, who probably want to complete the raid quests that appear out in the world, or see what's in the raid. Think it as Blackrock Depths/Lower/Upper Spire, with "raiding bosses." 10 man is the normal, and drops slightly better loot in comparison to 5 man. 25 man is where shit gets real, with solid loot and 40 would be hard as fuck, with the best gear.

    IDK what to make of Mythicc+ in this system, so I'd appericiate the help and any ideas that you might throw at me.
    The 20 man mythic is the best scaled they have done. Mythic is supposed to be the hardests difficulty. Having it at 20 allows them to tune the bosses better.

    Lfr, normal and heroic are for casual players and thus are flexible so do not need as tight boss tuning.

    Your entire idea would destroy top end raiding.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Don't like LFR don't do LFR... removing it does nothing.
    The only response that matters.

    If you remove LFR it's not going to 'force' anyone to do normal mode raiding. If it did, it wouldn't be the utopia you are hoping it would be, because normal mode would be nerfed to accommodate them. It would just be LFR you had to form a group for.

    Also, lol at 40 man raiding and omegalul at 5 man raiding. I thought classic would have shown people why 40 man raiding doesn't exist, and turning raids into hours long 5 man dungeon run is hilarious. I could see someone thinking 40 man raiding should exist because they don't know any better, but 5 man raiding? Seriously? Flex raiding serves its purpose, so there's no need for specific raid sizes anyways.

    Like why are you even pushing for 40 man raids? Did you just get back from classic and think that 40 man molten core runs was the bomb or something? Vanilla raiding basically was such a case that 20-30 players were useful, and 10-20 players were exceptionally bad and just there to fill up the raid, and this was doable because most rotations involved 1-2 buttons.
    Last edited by therealbowser; 2020-01-04 at 06:12 PM.

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