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  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Bosen's Avatar
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    I don't see the value in it. Why would it be worth the development time over cooler things Blizzard could do,like new dungeons,battlegrounds,new races?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosen View Post
    I don't see the value in it. Why would it be worth the development time over cooler things Blizzard could do,like new dungeons,battlegrounds,new races?
    Because that is not how game development works. Not to mention that most of the assets are already there and the people involved wouldn't be hindered in making dungeons anyway. Essentially they'd need to make the system once, format the database to accomodate housing data with the player profile, the rest is just making new recipes for each new furniture piece that gets added when Blizzard implements the next blood elf bordello dungeon like BT.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    I haven't played other MMOs, but I see no purpose to housing at all.
    Unless they are going to change the game into minecraft where you can build anywhere you want and use resources from anywhere in the world to do so, its only going to make the game worse.
    Otherwise, it would just be another predetermined place where everyone hangs out, or at worst, a fully instanced object taking more and more people out of the open world.

    I really am inexperienced with the topic, but from what I have seen discussed the ONLY way I would be excited about it was if you could build literally wherever you want, allowing you to set your hearth in crazy locations.

    Other than that, what gameplay does it actually add?
    It seems like an RP thing, or a garrison.

    I just don't understand what either bring to a game this size.
    It keeps players in game and paying.

    Also some games have bosses drop housing items. Normally when you do a dungeon you stop running it once you get the items you want but when you add housing items there will be people who want to use a ton of fancy dressers that Kael'thas drops to build a mecha and if they aren't running the dungeon to get a ton of copies then they are buying them off the AH. Think of it like battle pets except instead of someone only being able to use 3 they can use dozen's if not thousands of an item in their house.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    The reason is simple: Such a system would haunt them until the end of time if it goes bad. At least expansion-centric systems eventually just end.

    And as much as every pro-Housing player is going to say "Garrisons were not Housing", it still showed one of the primary bad side-effects of such a system - you depopulate the world, as many people will idle in their house, instead of a city.

    There is only two possible options for how one could implement housing:

    (1) Make it meaningless fluff, so that you have nothing but cosmetics in your house, so it doesn't take away any reasons from being in a city, but also doesn't really offer you any reason to be in your house all that often.
    (2) Have the house offer certain commodities and services, taking away from the importance of cities and other hubs, but make the house feel more useful.

    Either one of those options would really not be very good. (1) would be boring for anyone but the wannabe interior designers, and (2) would result in the "empty cities" problem, not only for one expansion, but for ever.

    As such, there is little course where they can truely win. Such a concept would cost serious effort in artwork, and to justify that they need to get a lot of people hyped for that - and a (1) option might just not cut that. And (2) is dangerous.
    Except there are thousands of people who don't give a shit about battle pets and yet run old raids to make money off the pet drops. If you implement housing, sure you have people spending time in their house decorating but you also have people running content to get the items they want for their housing or to sell. There are also the people who don't need to do a bg/dungeon what ever but see the queue time and instead of waiting around the 30+ minutes just log out. If you have content like housing that can distract from the queue time those people will likely stay instead of logging.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2020-01-06 at 12:30 AM.

  4. #164
    Honestly, houses add a lot to the game.
    Look at MMOs with housing and how big housing has become for those games...
    Wow's attempts at housing so far were very lackluster because they in essence didn't include the customization aspect which is the biggest attraction.

    In games housing have fluffs and customization.

    Forexample in FF14, you can get a Free company (guild) house, and get an airship workshop, a chocobo stable and other fluff like this, but the main draw is to completely decorate and design a house. Garrisons were only the fluff, you couldn't decorate the garrison, only change the layout to a degree.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    I've wondered this. A player house would be loads of fun for a lot of people. Personally it'd just be something I'd do whenever I got bored of everything else, but I'd still enjoy it. It could be a great way to show off achievements and add extra reasons to revisit old content to get items and rewards for your house.

    One thing that always bugs me is how disconnected expansions can feel. Each expansions sends you to a new zone and very rarely connect back to Azeroth other than occasionally "go talk to this npc in Org or SW". Housing would give something that connects all expansions, seeing everything you've done on your adventures in one place, that'd be awesome.

    There's so many other good reasons for housing, it bugs me that Blizzard haven't done it. Although after the shit show that was Garrisons, I'd be very wary of them getting it right.
    The thing is - you can't just say to Blizzard 'implement player housing' without being more specific. Because by blizzard's standards, Garrisons WERE player housing. IMHO unless we have the ability to place objects dynamically and customize to a far far greater extent, they might as well just not bother.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Like... I get that not everyone is going to be into Housing. But then, not everyone is into Raiding, or PvP. Housing has proven a pretty strong pillar of any MMORPG that still exists, so I have to wonder; why are they so hellbent on avoiding it?
    My guess is their decision is profit-related.

    How many extra subs or revenue do we expect to generate with housing?

    What is the cost to develop and maintain housing?

    Employing more people to develop housing means we are decreasing profit. will the exta subs and revenue be a large enough and compelling enough amount of money to go through the hiring, planning, and development cycle for housing?

    If we do not hire extra devs, what must be cut from the game to provide housing? Will cutting those features impact current subs?



    I believe that's the spot they are in. If I had to guess, I would say that Activision/Blizzard is looking to make the most amount of money with the least amount spent (effort). More of a "don't rock the boat and just make more money with what you have" mindset.

    So to make the most from the WoW product you simply add in more items to the retail shop and continue the game as-is. It generates subs, the subs buy services/items from the shop, and you continue to make profit for many more years, until you don't. Housing is not needed at all in that business plan.

    In fact, there aren't really any new features that need to be added. Interesting systems, sure it keeps subs coming back. Pets, mounts, and cosmetics, sure, those keep money coming in from the cash shop.

    What does housing bring to this? A large up-front expense with the promise of a pay-off in the future, possibly. And how long in the future is the extra money?

    You quickly see how trying to sell that to the people that control the budget just isn't going to fly. You can compare the revenue (estimates) from other games but at the end of the day you're trying to convince management to take a big risk. Pay lots of money now for the promise of more in the future. For management, they know if they just continue on they don't have to take *any risk at all* and they keep getting profit. Easy decision for them.

  7. #167
    I am Murloc! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    I agree with archeolgy, but the pet battle thing no.
    the pet battle dungeons and tournoments they have been adding, aswell as making pet battles a huge peice of content in the new zones (giving you a massive boost of rep) they are still doing great, maybe not as amazing as when they were first added and there was TONS of stuff, but it still gets quite a large amount of content. Legendary pets, pet battle dungeons, new pet battles every patch, etc etc.

    meanwhile archeolgy.... ugh... I was server second max on my realm back when it got added.
    I have almost every single rare.
    but legion and BFA sorta ditched it... Legion had the bi-weekly, but that was more of "do a weekly quest that has some archeology in it" there was no rares to discover.
    I used to be big on pet battles, still have over 200 level 25 and I have cleared all major content related to them (grandmasters, Celestial Tournament, dungeons).

    My problem is with the overachieving side of things. You have fun events like Algalon and Timeless Isle, and then the horrible slog that is beating every trainer with pets of a specific type. You do not need a strategy because 99% of them do not work, you just go fetch the pets that make it a roflstompfest and you are done.

    Pet battles are kinda ok exactly because they do provide fun and you can level pets while you level characters (did 85-90 back in MoP with a priest I didn't feel like leveling by battling pets and getting ready for tournament). I am just afraid of the direction they are heading.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by durenas View Post
    The thing is - you can't just say to Blizzard 'implement player housing' without being more specific. Because by blizzard's standards, Garrisons WERE player housing. IMHO unless we have the ability to place objects dynamically and customize to a far far greater extent, they might as well just not bother.
    People have been fairly direct when it comes to what they expect from player housing. Garrisons were called out as a poor example from the get go. Its not complicated, but blizzard tried to complicate it. This has been done more or less the same way in so many other MMO at this point that there's no excuse, theres no saying "Well what do you mean". Its an MMO standard, like changing your gears appearance.

    An instanced area for the player where they can place various types of furnishings.

    That is litterally it. You can add bells and whistles, but that is the most baseline, and what anyone would expect. And blizzard fucked that up.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Given how crazy many many people are over something as simple as transmog, I don't get it either. People would go nuts over well implemented housing.
    I'm still baffled that someone can find anything wrong with transmog.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    They seem to want only stuff for the specific expansion... like garrisons, order halls etc. They don't want a "expansionless" system that you keep working on, for some reason.
    "for some reason".. you realize the more stuff they add that works over more than one xpac, the more they need to maintain it and it means adding stuff every xpac to it, hence xpac takes more and more time to do because you have to add pet battles and archeology and more achievements all over the place because they decided to implement those at one point.

    That's why they went the "xpac feature way".. and we should be happy warfronts and island expeditions will be gone.

  11. #171
    The wisest words my father told me were "Don't say no when asked to do something you don't want to do. Accept it and do a bad job. That way you are never asked again but still look like a team player."

    This is how i feel they did housing and garrisons.

  12. #172
    I'm all in for Housing, but they have to bring something functionally useful, otherwise they're just wasted development time and Blizz won't do that.

    I don't see what could be done with Housing in WoW, beyond a physical place where you put decorations on the wall, have your Pets wandering around or a Transmog attached to the wall.
    Maybe a Guild Housing instead of a personal one, with some specific features inside (like the Guild Bank, a Trophies room) ?

  13. #173
    As with everything that doesn't happen, it's because of players who have a limited understanding of what goes on around them.
    In this case, because those players can't figure what was wrong with garrisons and how housing could actually work. So it's probably because Blizz fears investing into a feature and getting negative feedback. Did you notice - Blizz doesn't really make optional features (pets maybe), they have to center everything around every new feature and make it somehow mandatory to pve progress.

    This, of course, it's just a supposition - maybe they figure it isn't worth the costs to implement this feature. But yeah, I agree, whatever the case may be it's really hard to believe they couldn't dish out a system like Wildstar's (which is one of the best I've seen so far house-wise).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosen View Post
    I don't see the value in it. Why would it be worth the development time over cooler things Blizzard could do,like new dungeons,battlegrounds,new races?
    It's not for everyone, of course. It's hard to explain it to someone who doesn't get the value of it. It's a type of "end goal".
    For example, killing the last boss on X difficulty in a raid is your end goal. For that, you do a number of activities - you may do weekly M+, may do Islands for the neck, may do activities for essences and so on. Without that goal, you may not bother.
    With houses, it's a bit of the same - you have a house. To furnish it, you'll participate in activities - for example do professions, go to different dungeons for drops. Making a house that fits your character also adds to the RPG and immersion. I spend a lot of time building in games where I have houses - creating steps and levels, creating furniture out of different objects and so on. It's fun - it's something I like added to a game I already play for other reasons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    huge portion of the Dev team on?
    Who says it's huge? I recall the housing team from Wildstar was very small and it's one of the best systems I've seen (better than Rift's and FF14's).
    Assets are already created, there's no need for new ones. Every expansion they make new assets to decorate the places, the level of detail in some is astonishing (some houses even have sinks) - they can just make it available for us.

    This could also be a self-sustained feature if it's that much of an issue - like sell houses on the shop or other furniture, every other MMO does it. And since it's all cosmetic, there isn't really all that many people against it.

  14. #174
    Blizz said they did garrisons as an attempt to step into housing. We know how that went, so they threw off the idea as a whole.

  15. #175
    Play the sims if you want a house, nerds.

    WoW is for fight.

  16. #176
    Because it's a waste of development time.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    "for some reason".. you realize the more stuff they add that works over more than one xpac, the more they need to maintain it and it means adding stuff every xpac to it, hence xpac takes more and more time to do because you have to add pet battles and archeology and more achievements all over the place because they decided to implement those at one point.

    That's why they went the "xpac feature way".. and we should be happy warfronts and island expeditions will be gone.
    Thats the good part about player housing. They add new content to it naturally as they create new set pieces for normal content. Its one of the easiest to maintain features in any MMO period. Its why its been a standard of MMO for over a decade now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Blizz said they did garrisons as an attempt to step into housing. We know how that went, so they threw off the idea as a whole.
    Garrisons was not player housing. Garrisons was them saying they were doing player housing, and then not having a single standard of player housing.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  18. #178
    I honestly can't think of anything the game needs less than housing.

    Go hang out in your garrison

  19. #179
    You already got WOW's version of housing with garrisons in WoD. I know most people are like "well that wasn't actually housing" but that WAS WOW's test for player housing and although it started off promising, most people didn't end up liking garrisons.

  20. #180
    Wasn't Garrison a form of housing?

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