How can people say the US started the conflict with Iran??

[Crispin]

I simply made a point that having a report about a story and being outraged over a story are two different things. Do you think these things are the same?

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Deflection would be hurling thoughtless insults, like what you are doing. I instead and just arguing my point of view, you are welcome to disagree with me but please tell me why when you do.

From one of the links (nytimes)

Ultimately, Obama succeeded in making Americans comfortable with drone strikes, as they are generally supported by the American public (though opposed throughout the world)

[BigToast]

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Deflection would be hurling thoughtless insults, like what you are doing. I instead and just arguing my point of view, you are welcome to disagree with me but please tell me why when you do.

I missed the part when you actually addressed the topic of the thread.

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Because some people don't like facts. Funny how they didn't give a shit when drone strikes happened under Obama.

Insults such as this?

[Pannonian]

Guys, calm down and ignore it, his whataboutism about drones is now filling half the thread.

To help get back to the topic:

Actually it's quite hard to say when the conflict between Iran and "the West" started. You could argue for US pulling out of the deal (which started the current crisis), or the coup d'etat in 53, which started the current rhetoric, or you could even go further - to the blatant historic fiction and defamation of ancient greeks when it came to Persia, who a lot of people in Iran today feel somewhat connected to (and as we in the west base most of our philosophical theory on ancient greek, this draws a line for some people). So yeah, name one incident - very hard.

Did Iran do shit? 100%
Is Iran an authoritarian dictatorship and the world would be a better place without its regime? 100%
Does that mean that Iran is the primary aggressor here? Maybe, the whole embassy thing is weird to me, but lets not forget who vilified them the past years. They played by diplomatic rules, until the US pulled out, because of ... yeah...

[Stormspellz]

Because some people don't like facts. Funny how they didn't give a shit when drone strikes happened under Obama.

almost like context and nuance are a thing

[Edge-]

Awesome thanks for finding that, weird, I don't see any of our forum regulars who are angry about the Trump drone attacks in there, I guess the hours they spend on these forums it can be easy to miss such a juicy topic.

Almost like it's a 5-year old thread in a different forum (GenOT vs. Politics), and there have been a lot of changes in terms of users over 5 years, which is predictable and understandable.

You're still trying to "gotcha" folks, but it's not very effective.

[Crispin]

Awesome thanks for finding that, weird, I don't see any of our forum regulars who are angry about the Trump drone attacks in there, I guess the hours they spend on these forums it can be easy to miss such a juicy topic.

You can’t help yourself can you?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Awesome thanks for finding that, weird, I don't see any of our forum regulars who are angry about the Trump drone attacks in there, I guess the hours they spend on these forums it can be easy to miss such a juicy topic.

Oh wow, a 5 year old thread doesn't have many of the people who are active today. Who'da thunk?

5 years ago there also wasn't a politics forum, and I can tell you for certain there's very very few people who are regulars today that were chain replying to politics threads 5 years ago.

BUT WAIT, I don't see Zenkai, YOU in that thread complaining about how "conservatives never complained about missile strikes under Bush". Is it perhaps because your completely one-sided and partisan criticism of the left is just that?

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Almost like it's a 4-year old thread in a different forum (GenOT vs. Politics), and there have been a lot of changes in terms of users over 4 years, which is predictable and understandable.

You're still trying to "gotcha" folks, but it's not very effective.

We also don't see zenkai in those threads complaining about how conservatives never complained about Bush's missile strikes. Must mean he gives approval towards conservatives roasting Democrats but not the other way around.

[Dsonsion]

We also don't see zenkai in those threads complaining about how conservatives never complained about Bush's missile strikes. Must mean he gives approval towards conservatives roasting Democrats but not the other way around.

That's how centrist & rational™ voters like Zenkai act. They walk the fine line between attacking the dems and defending the republicans.

[zenkai]

I missed the part when you actually addressed the topic of the thread.

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Insults such as this?

how is that an insult? that's statement.

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Oh wow, a 5 year old thread doesn't have many of the people who are active today. Who'da thunk?

Alot of people active today were active 5 years ago, including edge.

We also don't see zenkai in those threads complaining about how conservatives never complained about Bush's missile strikes. Must mean he gives approval towards conservatives roasting Democrats but not the other way around.

Here's the difference chief, Conservatives didn't get angry over Obama's drone strikes, if any had then you could all them hypocrites. If you get angry over Bush/Trump drone strikes but not over Obama's, especially when it killed 2 innocent people, then well, that makes you a hypocrite.

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That's how centrist & rational™ voters like Zenkai act. They walk the fine line between attacking the dems and defending the republicans.

When did I ever complain about Obama's drone strikes?

[Jester Joe]

Let's keep the thread on topic please, as it has nothing to do with Obama.

[Crispin]

I honestly completely agree. Iranian government has gone too far spreading havoc across the middle east.

I have nothing but love & sorrow for the iranian people. I just don't think a government based on exporting the islamic revolution will do them any good.

Do you belive that the US are more entitled to meddle in the ME than Iran? Lets not forget that the US invaded 2 countries in the region within the last 2 decades.

[Crispin]

Do you think the situation will ever get better with the US in the region?

[Pannonian]

Not to mention the fact that the US is the world Police wether we like it or not.

That may be true, but sometimes the US acts more like world judge dredd. Judge, jury and executioner in one.

[Wyrt]

Yes, US/Iran conflict magically appeared in May 2019 and has not at all been an on going conflict since the 1970s.

Please ignore that the US has been trying to sanction them into the ground since then. I know Americans like to think that sanctions aren't aggressive, but they are. Trying to economically cripple a country very much does cause conflict.

And guess what? The current escalation started when Trump started slamming Iran with sanctions. Wasn't the start of the conflict, but it was the start of the escalation.

[Jimmy Woods]

It's funny how all these right-wingers who for the past 4 years have claimed that "the left" are pro-war are now gung-ho about sharing neo-con boomer memes and misinformation (imminent attack is today's yellow cake/WMDs). Anyone who even dares ask questions are deemed as turrorist sympathizers. Classic right-wingers, but I got some news for you. Trump is going to do everything he can to deescalate the situation as he doesn't want war. I know lots on the left don't want to hear that, but it's been 5 years of political Trump and his behavior is very easy to predict. He may accidentally stumble into war, but I got the feeling he's sitting on the can flushing for the 14th time thanking his lucky stars that Rand Paul and Mike Lee could potentially support the Democrats in limiting Trump's options when it comes to war with Iran. It's actually the one good time that the Trump cult exists. While the base right now is salivating over the chance to blow up some more ragheads and spread freedom, once the word comes down from Trump that there's no war they will suppress those war fee fees deep down and probably go back to hating (((globalists))) and Mexicans.

[Mihalik]

The Shah.

The Sanctions.

US support with intelligence and chemical weapons of Saddam during the Iraq-Iran War. This one especially tends to be ignored in the US as we tend to have collective amnesia about that fact that Saddam was a US proxy until 1990.

More sanctions.

Regular assassinations by the CIA of Iranian scientists. Mossad sometimes pitches in with these ones.

More sanctions.

We even tried to pin 9/11 on them repeatedly.

After decades of conflict a deal is struck to begin normalizing relationships with Iran. We use Iranian assets (including Soleimani himself) to stabilize Iraq when our little shitshow there blows up. It's worth noting that while the Kurds did most of the fighting against ISIS in Northern Iraq and Syria, it was Iranian militias that stopped ISIS when it was a day away from Baghdad, giving time to the Iraqis to stop handing their weapons over to ISIS and get their shit together.

Also while our "assets" in Syria like Al Nusra would regularly join ISIS it was Hezbollah militias that reinforced Assad when it looked like ISIS might take Aleppo and Damascus.

All this while the Iranians are abiding by the deals we made with them, then suddenly...

Back to sanctions.

If I were an Iranian I'd be suspicious even of the air the US breaths.

[Zython]

Are people really that out of touch with reality? Do they lurk in Echo chambers? Terribly missinformed? Mental disease?

May 2019 - Iran attacks oil tankers in the gulf. Trump does nothing.

June 2019 - Iran Shoots down US drown. Trump does nothing.

Well, for starters, these two involve Iranian military attacking foreign military vessels inside of their borders, so...yeah. There's your answer.

[Shadowferal]

World police my ass...
Only where it's profitable.

[NoiseTank13]

"Dude why are you so antagonistic towards me? How much longer are you going to be mad at me?"

"Well you killed the head of my family and replaced him with a wife-beating, kid abusing cunt who sucks up all the money and turned our loving family into a soul-crushing religious cult. It's going to be a fucking while."

[Powerogue]

If I were an Iranian I'd be suspicious even of the air the US breaths.

Is there a clear timeline of just how many times we've hopped sides in that region since we got involved there? It seems like every time I hear about it I learn about another one.