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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    That doesn't mean I can't make an argument for still being able to do so.

    Also you're fundamentally misrepresenting my point (and you have to because you know that Blizzard's reasoning is just silly so you base your argument on conjecture).
    I am not sure exactly how I am misrepresenting your argument. Yes I have used conjecture to flesh out the reasoning behind the decision that led to Blizzard's stated reasoning, and as it so happens, it is relevant to the discussion. And please, by all means, if you disagree with my conjecture then feel free to point out where you think it is flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's not about an item simply being usable (in terms of what the game technically deems as usable). Warriors can use cloth items but they can't mog their plate set into cloth (and I didn't argue for that). It's about whether or not they were actually effectively used in the past. In the past rogues were running around with T6 and the Twin Blades of Azzinoth. I don't see the point why they shouldn't be able to do that once again via transmog right now just because somehow lore is more important now than it was back then.
    First and foremost: I never said that "lore is more important now than it was back then". Nor did I imply it.
    Secondly, Rogues can still run around with the Twin Blades of Azzinoth equipped.

    What I have argued is that the context has changed. What I have argued is that just because in the context of T6 - a context in which DHs were not available as a player class, and transmog hadn't been invented - Blizzard thought is was a good idea for rogues to be able to use The Warglaives, doesn't mean that it's a good idea to allow rogues to transmog them in a the context of a game world where DHs are now a player class.

    Also, it's funny that you should bring up the example of the warrior being able to use cloth gear but not transmog it. It actually makes The Warglaives "exception" consistent. We had a shaman in our guild back during TBC who had a penchant for wearing cloth gear on the basis that it had better stats (coincidentally he still has a gripe about the fact that his "aggro reset" was to die and use reincarnation :P). He too would not be able to transmog into any of the T6 cloth gear that he used (very effectively) back in the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Saying that Blizzard doesn't care about consistency in class fantasy by listing other items tied to class fantasy that are usable/moggable by other classes is not a "whataboutism".
    To be fair, you never said that Blizzard doesn't care about class fantasy. And while finding some examples of moggable items that don't fit with class fantasy might support such an argument, it doesn't really prove it either. You'd need a significantly stronger argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    If there's no "rule" in regards to class fantasy, then you can't appeal to class fantasy for your reasoning.
    The rule is simple: Blizzard has a vision for each of it's classes. That vision is different for every class. There is no authoritive set of rules that can adequately define what exactly fits any given class, because that would require constraining human imagination. But that doesn't mean that the artist (Blizzard) can't judge each and every thing against their vision.

    I mean, seriously, are you actually denying that warglaives are not part of the DH class fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    You're the one who actually has to make the argument for why Warglaives should be the exception to the rule.
    My argument is pretty clear. You even labeled it "conjecture".

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    I mean, there's plenty of characters that wield warglaives besides Demon Hunters in the lore (Wardens, Spellbreakers, Sentinels, Shadow Hunters) not to mention that the Twin Blades were originally a weapon wielded by a Doomguard.
    Although I'd say that most of the weapons used by those NPC classes look pretty distinct from warglaives, some of them are probably close enough to qualify. I guess if Blizzard ever decide to implement any of these as playable classes, maybe they too would be elligible to use warglaives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Why can Paladins and Warriors use (and transmog) Shadowmourne when it's clearly heavily centered around the class fantasies of Death Knights?
    More whataboutism.

    That being said, I'd say the equivalence is false. The applicable part of the class fantasy has to do which types of weapons each class has proficiency in. Yes, Shadowmourne is clearly a weapon created for Death Knights. But it is still basically an axe and nothing in the lore ever suggested any reason why a class proficient in the use of axes shouldn't be able to wield it.

    In the case of the Warglaives, the only class that has proficiency in that type of weapon is the DH. It makes no more sense to make any warglaive transmog (including The Warglaives) available to class which cannot use warglaives than to do so for any other transmog involving a weapon in which the class has no proficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Interesting, when I made the point about Blizzard's actual reasoning (i.e. their stated goal), you presented this as a false dichotomy:
    Blizzard wants to elevate Demon Hunters at the expense of other classes
    -> Blizzard must turn the item into Warglaives for this to be true
    -> They didn't therefor this can't be their true reasoning

    Whereas when it comes to your point about the importance of lore, the same logic doesn't apply and the situation is more complicated.
    Or, you know, maybe stop trying to misrepresent what I actually said?

    I was pretty clear:

    Blizzard left the original Warglaives of Azzinoth as sword class of weapon - despite the fact that it doesn't fit the class fantasy - so as not to take something away from players who had put in time/effort/emotional investment to obtain it.

    The same consideration is not necessary for the decision regarding transmogrification because no one ever had that in the first place therefore there is nothing to take away.

    I can totally sympathise with the player who ran BT 50 times to get The Warglaives on his rogue so that he can equip them when the mood strikes. Given that The Warglaives were never moggable, there are no rogues who ran BT 50 times to get The Warglaives so that they could transmog them. Therefore I have no reason to sympathise for the current complaint on that basis.

    Simply put:

    Not taking away something earned by players (equippable Level 70 legendary weapons) > Class Fantasy Considerations > Giving something new to players just because they want it (transmoggrifying said legendary)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Look, I honestly think (probably as much as you do) that this is a stupid debate. In hindsight, Blizzard probably should have made a HD reskin that is exclusive to Demon Hunters (like they did with Ashbringer for Paladins and Thunderfury for Outlaw rogues) and no one would have complained if Rogues/Warriors were able to transmog Illidan's glaives. But they obviously don't really plan ahead with these kinds of decisions.
    Well I certainly think that the OP's complaint is puerile and whiny. Could Blizzard have handled it in another way? Sure. There are many potential options that would not invalidate the DH reward while still allowing other classes to mog The Warglaives. But I do get why they would rather just keep it DH exclusive, and IMO I just don't see it being about favouritism at all. There really is a much simpler explanation: That it fits into their vision of Illidan, demon hunters and the Illidari.

    I guess if the outcry is loud enough they'll back down. I mean what real choice will they have? But I do feel that the game overall would be poorer for it, especially if this ends up setting a precedent. Don't get me wrong, I am all for Blizzard changing their minds due to player objections, but only when those objections are rational and reasonable. In this case I feel the complaint is frivoulous and whiny, but I guess each person is entitled to their opinion on which issues matter to them.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Your sig makes this really funny to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Usagi Senshi View Post
    As a person that has hated Trump for many years before his presidency but doesn't suffer from TDS, I agree! lol
    Yeah, whose the president of the US and Blizzard not letting warglaives be transmogged are both totally equally important.
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Yeah, whose the president of the US and Blizzard not letting warglaives be transmogged are both totally equally important.
    Neither are important in the grand scheme compared to starving African children.

    Go be an adult and care about real problems.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Neither are important in the grand scheme compared to starving African children.

    Go be an adult and care about real problems.
    Riiiiiight. Like I said, proving my point every time you post.
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Riiiiiight. Like I said, proving my point every time you post.
    "y-you're just proving my point by trivializing the things that matter to me!"

  6. #326
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeOculus View Post
    I am honestly upset about this.
    And if you don't see a problem with that I can only feel sad for you.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    It is a good thing.

    Otherwise we are going to end up with classes not even recognizable visually with rogue dual yielding wands or whatever silly thing we can imagine.

    Glaives are iconic demon hunter weapon. They need to stay that way.

    Dual yielding two handers: its a fury warrior, no other class/spec.

    Double daggers: rogue!

    etc

    My take, dont need to quote me and reply.
    Warglaives are iconic to DH, yes.

    But these specific glaives are iconic to other classes. The first thing that pops into my head when I think about them is a rogue. In-game it makes sense (historicaly), lore-wise it doesn't.

    I'm not 100% sure, but. Is the TW xmog version for DHs slightly different from the original model?

    They could leave DHs with that slightly altered model and give the other original classes the old model.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Blizzard is always pampering their elf fanbase, thus pampering their precious child the DH, anything for then apparently

    Frostmourne for DKS? nope, get that shit ass double butter knife, DH? get the illidan blades and nobody will ever dream of use because fuck it

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    Demon hunters being the only class to use warglaives still is pretty retarded

    you are telling me my warrior, master of any kind of arms, can't use a warglaive? its bullshit
    Warglaives are nonsensical weapons, of course no one can wield them effectively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  9. #329
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post

    Neither did monk or dk yet they are very vocal about wanting to transmog it
    Yes but DHers would also be able to mog it. They're just asking to be able to do it as well.

  10. #330
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    I mained a rogue and have been unsubbed for almost all of this expansion. Jumping to conclusions just so you both can stay butthurt. Pathetic.
    im not butthurt at all, i havent played retail since classic dropped....its just annoying to see people make such stupid comments...

  11. #331
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    im not butthurt at all, i havent played retail since classic dropped....its just annoying to see people make such stupid comments...
    So then why did you?
    You know, it's kinda funny. On this forum you can question and criticize celebrities, developers, even governments. But only two you will net you instant infractions; religion and the actions of moderators. Really puts into perspective the literal god complexes we're dealing with here.

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